Bleeding in the ground for 4 minutes is fun and interactive gameplay

You should be able to give up or accelerate the bleed out if there are only two survivors left.

Survivors should be able to kill themselves in the dying state if they're either all in the dying state (inlcuding being the last survivor in the trial), or if they're one of two remaining survivors. Would improve the gameplay experience a lot.

Least when the gate is open it has a countdownn and that killers can open gates too helps..............ahh i do miss the old hatch stand offs though! lol

Or just expand on that basekit Unbreakable so no ones forced to stay on the ground to bleed out?

I've seen plenty of plagues not slug to be effective. In fact I see pretty much every killer being effective without slugging.

If you have to slug to win then I assume you're just not that good at killer.

This is the only time basekit unbreakable should be a thing, if there is only one survivor left standing than anyone slugged should be able to get up, or alternatively give a bleed out function.

The other alternatives they had were a bit much, ie after 45 seconds at any time

Yet even when its 4 people its hated

What, you would rather get facecamped out the game then? Why even play if you just want to die quick? You'd think these types of players would like tombstone and no mither then

Free base Unbreakable means a Survivor can just keep running to a spot of the map without any hooks nearby without repercussions. So no unless they add more hook spawns

I dont care myself, but many others care and I want to point out its not just the killers who play very bad to the other side.

It would only work if theres only 2 survivors left. The whole point is to stop killers from slugging to avoid one survivor getting hatch.

So what's a killer supposed to do in early game, just suffer 2 or 3 gens popping while going for hooks like a good little punching bag?

Don't think so, bub. Your gen-rushing butts are getting controlled before hooking starts.

And cut all this noise trying to talk about "you're bad if you do what beats me," like #########...

if you down all 4 survivors or 3 survivors when not all gens are completed. I would say that 99% of the time, the killer gets 3 kills minimum. All finisher mori did was save time. Instead of hooking survivor for 1 minute, the game would end faster. worst case scenario, the killer cannot find survivor and survivor bleed out. maybe consider deer stalker base-kit when 1 person is left so killer can save 4 minutes of bleed out timer to move on to next game.

There very niche cases where finisher mori system would make difference over normal game. Normally it is when multiple survivors go down next to exit gate but killer cannot pick up all 3 slugged survivors that crawl out exit gate. that is like only situation where finisher mori system helps killer. Other then that, its quick way to save time to move on the next match.

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I think 45 second of unlimited unbreakable was an attempt to buff killer slugging because premise is that if it takes 4 minutes to die, a killer would need 4-5 downs to bleed someone out. I just don't its good approach to buffing slugging. It kinda misses the mark. the problem with slugging is that its too slow of a method for survivors to die. The unbreakable effect to pick yourself up is like deliverance for hooks. if you are slugging someone, your incentived to camp the survivor on the floor because they will get back up automatically. your putting time pressure on killer to hook else they lose out on their hooking reward and with ability self-pick up, the survivors gain time from not having to go from save instead of lose time. As OP title suggests, bleeding out for 4 minutes is really long time dbd. Encouraging slow-play bleed out is not particular fun for survivor. I would recommend avoiding that gameplay.

The way I would approach slugging is every time a survivor is put into dying state. when another survivor heals another survivor or a survivor is picked up with non-unlimited unbreakable type perks, they suffer minor regression penalty to their bleed out bar. I am not sure what number would be but say 10-15% total bleed out regression. If a survivor reaches last 10 second of bleed bar and another survivor is healing them, the bleed out bar is paused. When survivor is picked up, their bleed out bar reaches 0. If a killer downs them when their bleed out bar is 0, then the killer automatically mori's the survivor. I think this system would be better because it encourage killer to move around and down as many survivors as possible. When the killer sees the bleed out bar is low, they can try to camp out the survivor to kill them similar to how a killer would camp a survivor when they are on death hook with <30 second to try to get them killed. In doing this change, they could rework troll perks like No mither and slightly adjust unbreakable to accommodate system. Some of slugging perks could be improved as well such as Soulguard, We're gonna live forever and Tenacity. BT for hook is 20 seconds, soulguard could be 20 seconds of endurance. We're gonna live forever could reduce regression penalty to 0 based off its stacks. Tenacity could slow down bleed out. This would be my approach to towards slugging. Survivor would have more threats then just hook-states. they would need to adapt slugging as part of normal gameplay loop.

I think they want slugging and finisher mori to be part of same update.

Is getting help by another survivor really that rare?

I wish killers were this supported by the community in asking for good perks basekit or buffs to weak killers, lol.

If you don't have tracking perks, you still have a brain, ears, and eyeballs. (ideally, sorry if you are playing with 1 eye or any other permutation.)

30m hide fight - That isn't impossible, but as long as they weren't doing gens, you can report them after the game is over (with video as mentioned in my prior post).

Killer AFK - The statement was more accurately the Killer can reach a gamestate where they can win by going AFK. Nurse can get the 4 downs super quick, then get a coffee or go to the bathroom and still come back with a win, either from nobody bringing UB, or because she can do the same immediately upon returning.

Survs at gates - Again, Killer has agency in this scenario. Killer can attack to push out, or leave to ignore or clean up pallet/wall BP. Survivor being bled out has no agency.

Team play - That's why I included not only the 45s pickup as an option, (which would require the team to distract/provide interference long enough to happen) but also a duo pickup from the ground, where 2 Survivors could pick each other up when slugged.

Mori System - I already covered that you can stand near hatch swinging to indicate you are giving it as Killer, but the ability to choose mori/mercy would have been a good improvement. I highly doubt basekit pickups at 45s would be a massive nerf/change to kill rates. As long as they float around 60% BHVR is happy. I would argue it would alter this by 2% max. The vast majority of Killers never even get UB used against them, because they hook people when they get the down. Heck, in the past month I have only had 1 Killer match where UB changed the kill count of the match, (down to a 2k from a 3k) and I knew I should have hooked the person first anyways due to their playstyle. So if I wasn't on autopilot it still wouldn't have gotten value.

45s pickup lead to selfish gameplay - Why is the Killer incapable of hooking the Survivor? Is their spacebar broken? It isn't like they have to go to the opposite corner of the map when they get the M1 down before picking them up, they are literally under their feet. They can get the hook to force the altruistic gameplay with an unhook. Not difficult at all. The only circumstance remaining is intentional BM.

Basekit pickup change ground recovery speed perks - Which they did in the playtest. They kept UB at ~22s self pickup, (same as current) and by not adjusting Exponential's numbers they actually nerfed it from ~16s pickup to ~22s pickup. Again, nothing is stopping the Killer from picking up in this 22s timeframe.

Add more hooks - Attempt a Sabo play where you sabo a hook, Sprint Burst to another hook, and they still have the time to reach the third hook. There are more than enough hooks in the vast majority of instances. Also maps where Boil Over is a problem already have 2-3 hooks available even to perkless Killers. The only caveat may be the need to kick a wall before picking up, such as on Eyrie in the top corner with the window. You can fall with ~3s of wiggle progress and still reach the hook within 5s, not even the 11 extra needed to wiggle.

Power Struggle - Yeah the perk that only also works with a second perk, Flip-Flop, and a teammate not on gens giving the Killer a massive advantage. Even then it is limited to pallets, so they are burning a macro resource. I also never thought someone would be a mad enough lad to complain about a gigachad meme build, but here we are. Also, with 45s basekit pickups and PS+FF you need ~14s of recovery instead of the current ~10s, which is almost a 50% nerf. Also even in the 'horrific' scenario of a teammate going down on pallet and someone else in the vicinity, just chase them around the pallet. You have plenty of time to get the hit or force the pallet. Because of the spawns it is also unlikely there is another pallet in the area, so they have to give you injuries/downs. Even then, you are acting like 45s of an effective incapacitated status effect with a chase on another Surv is this unwinnable game position, which seems vastly out of touch with reality. Especially given Eruption with 25s Incap made Survivor unplayable for many people who hard quit the game.

Yeah, 45s is more than enough time to do your Killer taxes, kick the gen and pallet, chase off the would be rescuer, and pick them up before they could pick themselves up. Thanks for agreeing. Ultimately how long the timer feels is based on the pressure someone is under. With no pressure or massive pressure it could feel like forever. It could be 25s and feel like forever thinking "okay I have to kick the pallet I downed them at, hook them 3ft away, go use Pop, and chase the person who was resetting the boon for the third time." All that took no time at all relatively speaking, but with thoughts racing at a mile a minute it could be overwhelming to some. At the same time someone uninterrupted on a gen for 90 entire seconds could feel like it went by super quickly since nothing happened for them to pay attention to.

5x Deliverance - I wasn't aware you get 5 first hooks where you needed to rescue someone else first. I also wasn't aware you were hooked the milisecond you get downed. I thought the Killer had to actually pick them up and walk them over first.

Space Bar Broken - As in that is the only excuse to not pick up (within 45s).

Power drop on pickup - So Oni and ... that's it. You could make an argument for Ghostie, but as a Ghostie main I'll just say no. You lose your power anyways when swinging (in the majority of cases). With Oni however, you get 45s of power, subtracted by 7s per down. So even if you try to snowball from an instant down the milisecond after you start power and find no one, that was only 38s of the Survivor being slugged, so you can keep that in your mind and pick them up. Also if you managed to get all 4, it takes 45-28s for 17s of power, and you still have that 28s to pick up the first downed Survivor. Then you can hook them sequentially in the order of downing, easily within the timeframe. Even if they start crawling, they can't recover, so your timer to find them is even longer. This wouldn't kill Oni, it would kill an avenue of BM. (Also pickup early to save Blood bar as Oni is very helpful in any case where you don't know where someone is at.)

Survivor downed under pallet requiring pushing the other Surv off - Which can be done well within the 45s time limit. If it takes a player more than 45s to get them far enough away to get the pickup, that Killer player honestly needs to practice against Survivors closer to their own playtime in order to understand how to play. If the entire team is swarming the area, then gens aren't being progressed, and eventually they will all be injured, and die. Still a win for Killer.