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Bleeding in the ground for 4 minutes is fun and interactive gameplay
Just wanted to take this off my chest. I was playing survivor and had this epiphany, and had a great time bleeding and watching my team bleed till death as the devs intended to. I even had time to say "Hi" to some old friends on Instagram.
Comments
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Yes and you will get people saying, just use this perk. I had a game today constantly on my last bit of heals and downed, on the floor, even with unbreakable and getting up and then by a time mate...................................it's like, the song, "i get knocked down but i get up again" and then team mates on the floor while killer goes searching for the reminder for the 4k and i am just laid bleeding, i was relieved the game ended
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I like to try and crawl away into the most hidden spot when left slugged. A couple of times I’ve lucked out and been near the hatch spawn and even got out.
It’s not as bad as people like to go on about. It’s 4 mins.
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I mean slugging has always been a thing and there -are- perks in the game to help deal with it.
If all 4 survivors are still up it's also not even a very good tactic for the killer unless the survs all mess up.
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*Waiting for people to inevitably compare this to waiting at the gate*
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At the moment some Killers Slugg all survivors mostly Nurse Players. This "problem" is because two resons. Fist The Killer meta got killed and the survivor meta is still the same (exept mabye medikits). Second the survivors at the moment do the same. They bring the best posable, becuse they are mad over the Medkit changes and the, to be honest, very little change to DH. So the KIllers players that only play killer are mad and the survivors that only play survivor are mad.
So yes at the moment the games FOR BOTH SIEDES are very miserable, but wait a little bit at the future both siedes will calm down.
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thats 4 minutes that could be spent looking and even playing another match
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ye they need to add a check that lets survivors go next when killers are Bming by doing this.
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You should be able to give up or accelerate the bleed out if there are only two survivors left.
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Don't worry, basekit infinite unbreakable is coming soon™
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Survivors should be able to kill themselves in the dying state if they're either all in the dying state (inlcuding being the last survivor in the trial), or if they're one of two remaining survivors. Would improve the gameplay experience a lot.
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I don't like being killed when playing Survivor, but I can understand why you have to do it from a killer's point of view. After all, there is also a problem on the part of the entity, which will not be satisfied if even one person escapes from the hatch. Or the problem of assessing BhVR.
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Least when the gate is open it has a countdownn and that killers can open gates too helps..............ahh i do miss the old hatch stand offs though! lol
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Yes but without it you would just auto bleed out if left on the ground so too short and you die to quick if slugged, too long and people complain I think 4mins isn't a bad amount of time for said mechanic.
Guess you could reduce it to 3mins without too much interruption to how it functions.
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That's why I have second monitor.
It's great when survivors are waiting at exit gate too.
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Doubt it.
Haven't seen any positive feedback on it.
Neither for basekit Mori.
Basically made strong killers better, while hurting weaker killers.
I will gladly have contest if I can slug you faster than you pick up as Oni. Would be fun for sure.
But it would make slugging for M1 killers impossible and they won't really get use of Mori system.
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Or just expand on that basekit Unbreakable so no ones forced to stay on the ground to bleed out?
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Oh so do I, doesnt fix the issue
Also whataboutism
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Not really, it's just another good thing to have second monitor for.
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ok...?
Still doesnt fix the issue????
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I wouldn't call it an issue...
Slugging is great way for killer to build pressure, it's simple as that.
Like what, you wanna buff the hell out of survivors with basekit Unbreakable? Sure, but I don't want to see single complain about tunneling, which won't happen...
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You don't see slugging Survivors for 4 minutes on the ground to bleed out for no other reason than to BM an issue... but you see Survivors waiting at an exit gate (which btw, at MAXIMUM is also 4 minutes) an issue?
I understand that slugging can be used effectively and not to BM, but it is without a doubt unfun for the receiving end and in an ideal world it wouldn't be as necessary in certain scenarios
Also basekit Unbreakable wasnt that bad on the PTB a few months back, it was Unbreakable it self reducing the time it took to get up by half. 45 seconds is still a LONG time and is more than enough time to build pressure to start snowballing
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Where did I say it's an issue?
I have used it to BM, some survivors deserve it. Both sides have things they can do to BM, you want to remove all of them?
If you run into zone where you know I can't hook you, I will let you bleed out.
Headon squads? Bleed out
Sabo squads? Bleed out
45 seconds is not really that much for Twins, Plague, Myers and Oni. Those basically have to slug to be effective.
That automatic Mori system wasn't that good for weaker killers, but few killers can do some decent speedruns, which I don't think would players like to play against.
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Well they were working on survivors being able to pick themselves up but they did that stupid auto mori at the same time and it didn't work. I have no idea why they couldn't just let us pick ourselves up.
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I've seen plenty of plagues not slug to be effective. In fact I see pretty much every killer being effective without slugging.
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But the ability to slug survivors is an integral part of the game, giving players the ability to just stand up because they don't like being on the ground is really not a great idea.
This notion of just making every niche effect basekit so you never have to face anything out of the ordinary from a narrow selection of core gameplay is a recipe for complete dullness.
I would argue a game where you face the threat of being slugged is far more interesting than a game where being slugged is no threat at all.
In the event that everyone is slugged and none has the power to pick themselves up then perhaps the timer should speed up to avoid the wait, you have to give the killer enough time to hook everyone though.
A built in stand up for free though is juts a terrible idea.
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It's less effective. Of course, if you don't know about any survivor nearby, there is no point in slugging.
But mainly those four, if you down survivor and know about another survivor nearby, you better slug and go for them while you have your power.
That's why Infectious Fright is so good on them.
It's not so bad on Oni, he keeps his power, but still if you can go for another down, you better do it. But Myers and Plague would be wasting their power.
Twins have that awfull duration after down, where you can't swap. So basically, it's way more effective to slug and try to get another hit with Victor.
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It was tested as automatic Mori system on PTB.
Didn't really end well tho. Killers basically had it like challenge to get it, so you would have way more slugging than you do now.
Even with 45 sec basekit unbreakable, I am not sure people would enjoy playing against it.
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If you have to slug to win then I assume you're just not that good at killer.
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Lol, using strategy to build pressure: not good killer
So I guess I should just go tunnel from first hook to get better, as you wish.
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This is the only time basekit unbreakable should be a thing, if there is only one survivor left standing than anyone slugged should be able to get up, or alternatively give a bleed out function.
The other alternatives they had were a bit much, ie after 45 seconds at any time
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No. Maybe you should just get better. I see plenty of killers get 4Ks without slugging or tunneling. You're never going to get better if you only slug or tunnel. Sometimes survivors are better than you. Its ok. Also. theres nothing wrong with them getting hatch either. It's a part of the game. Stop trying to circumvent it. You got a 3k already... why do you have to force the 4k? The killer almost always finds the hatch first anyway. You can walk around uninhibited where I as a survivor must sneak and look for it.
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Yet even when its 4 people its hated
What, you would rather get facecamped out the game then? Why even play if you just want to die quick? You'd think these types of players would like tombstone and no mither then
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Because that's stupid
If you REALLY hate being slugged and would rather just be hooked or mori'd for some reason, there's always unbreakable and no mither
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Free base Unbreakable means a Survivor can just keep running to a spot of the map without any hooks nearby without repercussions. So no unless they add more hook spawns
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There are reasons for 4k.
Challenge, adept, they pissed me off...
Maybe you should get better and learn how to deal with slugging and tunneling?
It's not really hard to deal with slugging, just survive in chase longer than 10 seconds so your team can recover.
If you down a survivor and there is another survivor nearby on gen, you better slug and push him off, maybe get hit or another down. That's how you play better, learn how to get some pressure on survivors.
If you regularly get killers who 4k you on twelve hooks, then it says more about you imo.
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I dont care myself, but many others care and I want to point out its not just the killers who play very bad to the other side.
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There is literally no counter play to slugging aside from letting other players bleed out. How do you not understand that? I have to hide for the whole bleed out timer. I can't help that we had a DC or my team sucked. Slugging to deny hatch should be a reportable offense.
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It would only work if theres only 2 survivors left. The whole point is to stop killers from slugging to avoid one survivor getting hatch.
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There is no counter? Soooo is there a counter to hooking a survivor?
Both situations need another survivor to pick them up. Slugging is faster for killer, but survivors basically have more health states.
How is it that much different?
Slugging is effective if you can immediately start another chase (three survivors not on gens), or when you have limited duration power -> Oni, Plague, Myers. Twins too for different reason tho.
It's situational thing killer can and should use.
But it's not straight better than hooking a survivor.
How do you not understand that?
Slugging to deny hatch should be reportable? Little bit entitled, aren't you?
So survivors hiding should be reportable too?
Not sure what is your logic behind it being reportable, if you try to pull up not doing objective, or make game longer. Hiding is same.
I don't really have issue with it. If they hide and waste my time, I will let them bleed out, when I find them sooner or later.
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So what's a killer supposed to do in early game, just suffer 2 or 3 gens popping while going for hooks like a good little punching bag?
Don't think so, bub. Your gen-rushing butts are getting controlled before hooking starts.
And cut all this noise trying to talk about "you're bad if you do what beats me," like #########...
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The issue is agency. If Survivors clicky clicky teabag at the exit gate, I can force them out, or leave and wait out the timer. I have a choice to end it sooner, and a choice to ignore the stimuli. If a Survivor hides, I can kick a gen and look for them around it, and if the gen stops sparking when I return, I know they are still somewhere there. I can still try to do something to advance the game, look for the Surv(s), and if I brought Nowhere to Hide, I can often get a free hit. If I need to find a hiding Survivor, they need to actively hide to play the game. If a Killer bleeds me out, I can recover (to 95%) for Survival BP, or crawl. Neither action lets me have true agency to progress the game, especially if all remaining Survs are slugged as well. Also once everyone is downed, a Killer can choose to just AFK and win. Survivors can never reach a state where they win by AFKing. A basekit solution exists for a Killer to end the match, (seek them out, or hit them to force out) but there is no such Survivor basekit solution for slugging, be that self-pickup, ally pickup each other from the ground, or a hook suicide equivalent for the ground. No agency equals a problem.
The hatch aspect is an edge case, but I understand their logic. When Survivors hide and refuse to touch gens, to get them banned you need 10 minutes of proof no gens are being progressed(IIRC it was 10m). That is strictly holding the game hostage. A Killer bleeding out the 3rd Surv while looking for the 4th is more often than not holding both those Survs hostage in spirit, even if not strictly against the rules. The Killer in that scenario is forcing a minimum of 4 minutes where the Surv isn't allowed to do anything, up to 8 if they nearly bled out one then they got picked up and the Killer repeated the process with the other Surv. The Killer holds the game hostage (in spirit) for those (typical) 4 minutes. It isn't bannable, but since the effects are clearly along the same lines as the bannable equivalent, I can understand anyone wanting it to be banned. I personally wouldn't think it is a problem as long as the other Survivor got chased within the next 30s. Essentially if you 95'ed your recovery, you should be able to give up, same as a hook suicide.
Another facet is that some people could think of themselves as a Martyr keeping the other player(s) away from the player base as long as possible before ending the match. They will take the 'L' and keep playing in an unwinnable match, if it means the scumbag opponent(s) doesn't get to 'torture' other 'victims'. I've seen both Survivors and Killers play with what appeared to be this mindset. Both sides have basically played to keep the opposition in the match as long as possible (typically under non-bannable lines).
The problem with the Mori system, was that it encouraged a speedrun to the finish by slugging all Survivors. It had 0 hook state requirements or anything. The Survivors could still play if they had the perks, (or the basekit UB) but were denied their use. The basekit UB gave 45s to pick up Survivors. Heck, even a classic snowball case Oni, has his power last 45s (-7 per down.) Even if you managed to down all 4 Survs in order, there was enough time to hook them sequentially, due to the reduced power duration on down.
The main problem is everyone is acting like those 2 features needed to be connected, but both could be implemented in various ways to still be decent. The 45s pickup was perfect for even normal matches, as it would only reasonably affect comp matches, which don't matter. The Mori finisher could have been implemented only when 1 Survivor remains, so you could down them for the Mori Finisher, or stand away from hatch in LOS to indicate you are giving it to them.
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if you down all 4 survivors or 3 survivors when not all gens are completed. I would say that 99% of the time, the killer gets 3 kills minimum. All finisher mori did was save time. Instead of hooking survivor for 1 minute, the game would end faster. worst case scenario, the killer cannot find survivor and survivor bleed out. maybe consider deer stalker base-kit when 1 person is left so killer can save 4 minutes of bleed out timer to move on to next game.
There very niche cases where finisher mori system would make difference over normal game. Normally it is when multiple survivors go down next to exit gate but killer cannot pick up all 3 slugged survivors that crawl out exit gate. that is like only situation where finisher mori system helps killer. Other then that, its quick way to save time to move on the next match.
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I think 45 second of unlimited unbreakable was an attempt to buff killer slugging because premise is that if it takes 4 minutes to die, a killer would need 4-5 downs to bleed someone out. I just don't its good approach to buffing slugging. It kinda misses the mark. the problem with slugging is that its too slow of a method for survivors to die. The unbreakable effect to pick yourself up is like deliverance for hooks. if you are slugging someone, your incentived to camp the survivor on the floor because they will get back up automatically. your putting time pressure on killer to hook else they lose out on their hooking reward and with ability self-pick up, the survivors gain time from not having to go from save instead of lose time. As OP title suggests, bleeding out for 4 minutes is really long time dbd. Encouraging slow-play bleed out is not particular fun for survivor. I would recommend avoiding that gameplay.
The way I would approach slugging is every time a survivor is put into dying state. when another survivor heals another survivor or a survivor is picked up with non-unlimited unbreakable type perks, they suffer minor regression penalty to their bleed out bar. I am not sure what number would be but say 10-15% total bleed out regression. If a survivor reaches last 10 second of bleed bar and another survivor is healing them, the bleed out bar is paused. When survivor is picked up, their bleed out bar reaches 0. If a killer downs them when their bleed out bar is 0, then the killer automatically mori's the survivor. I think this system would be better because it encourage killer to move around and down as many survivors as possible. When the killer sees the bleed out bar is low, they can try to camp out the survivor to kill them similar to how a killer would camp a survivor when they are on death hook with <30 second to try to get them killed. In doing this change, they could rework troll perks like No mither and slightly adjust unbreakable to accommodate system. Some of slugging perks could be improved as well such as Soulguard, We're gonna live forever and Tenacity. BT for hook is 20 seconds, soulguard could be 20 seconds of endurance. We're gonna live forever could reduce regression penalty to 0 based off its stacks. Tenacity could slow down bleed out. This would be my approach to towards slugging. Survivor would have more threats then just hook-states. they would need to adapt slugging as part of normal gameplay loop.
I think they want slugging and finisher mori to be part of same update.
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I understand that was what the playtest was, but as I said at the ending paragraph, there is no need for those 2 concepts to be glued together.
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Is getting help by another survivor really that rare?
I wish killers were this supported by the community in asking for good perks basekit or buffs to weak killers, lol.
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If you don't have tracking perks or tracking killer, you will never find them until they get bored. They can ignore crows by dropping and picking an item.
Record I had was looking for them almost 30 minutes (28min). You will never hold game hostage that long with slugging. That's why there is a timer for it count as win condition.
Killer can be afk? Killer managed to slug 4 survivors at the same time, how was that afk? It's not really that easy (depends on killer).
Same logic would be survivors waiting during endgame collapse instead of leaving, they already won, but making game longer without doing anything. Let's report them, of course....
They just nerfed self-healing, it seems like they want survivors to actually have some team play, not everyone be self dependent.
Noone liked Mori system also because you wouldn't be able to give survivor hatch after downing them. It kinda needs to be connected, because basekit UB is massive buff for all survivors. It doesn't have to be connected with Mori system, but there have to be some feature for killers to balance it.
45 seconds is not that much, survivors can ignore slugged survivor and work on gens instead, it will still be more effective then helping him (unless that survivor is on deadhook). So yay, let's promote selfish gameplay, what could go wrong.
Also with base-kit UB, you would have to remove all perks that make recovery faster, because they would become broken.
Also add lot of hooks on some maps. Nerf Boil over, so survivors can't create situation where only counter is let them bleed out. Not really an option with infinite UB, when they can use soul guard to take hit.
Power Struggle can make it so I can't pick them up, just let yourself down under pallet and have teammate show himself, so killer can't pick up. Only thing killer can do is slug at that time, or take basically DS. Survivors won't care with base-kit UB.
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If you don't have tracking perks, you still have a brain, ears, and eyeballs. (ideally, sorry if you are playing with 1 eye or any other permutation.)
30m hide fight - That isn't impossible, but as long as they weren't doing gens, you can report them after the game is over (with video as mentioned in my prior post).
Killer AFK - The statement was more accurately the Killer can reach a gamestate where they can win by going AFK. Nurse can get the 4 downs super quick, then get a coffee or go to the bathroom and still come back with a win, either from nobody bringing UB, or because she can do the same immediately upon returning.
Survs at gates - Again, Killer has agency in this scenario. Killer can attack to push out, or leave to ignore or clean up pallet/wall BP. Survivor being bled out has no agency.
Team play - That's why I included not only the 45s pickup as an option, (which would require the team to distract/provide interference long enough to happen) but also a duo pickup from the ground, where 2 Survivors could pick each other up when slugged.
Mori System - I already covered that you can stand near hatch swinging to indicate you are giving it as Killer, but the ability to choose mori/mercy would have been a good improvement. I highly doubt basekit pickups at 45s would be a massive nerf/change to kill rates. As long as they float around 60% BHVR is happy. I would argue it would alter this by 2% max. The vast majority of Killers never even get UB used against them, because they hook people when they get the down. Heck, in the past month I have only had 1 Killer match where UB changed the kill count of the match, (down to a 2k from a 3k) and I knew I should have hooked the person first anyways due to their playstyle. So if I wasn't on autopilot it still wouldn't have gotten value.
45s pickup lead to selfish gameplay - Why is the Killer incapable of hooking the Survivor? Is their spacebar broken? It isn't like they have to go to the opposite corner of the map when they get the M1 down before picking them up, they are literally under their feet. They can get the hook to force the altruistic gameplay with an unhook. Not difficult at all. The only circumstance remaining is intentional BM.
Basekit pickup change ground recovery speed perks - Which they did in the playtest. They kept UB at ~22s self pickup, (same as current) and by not adjusting Exponential's numbers they actually nerfed it from ~16s pickup to ~22s pickup. Again, nothing is stopping the Killer from picking up in this 22s timeframe.
Add more hooks - Attempt a Sabo play where you sabo a hook, Sprint Burst to another hook, and they still have the time to reach the third hook. There are more than enough hooks in the vast majority of instances. Also maps where Boil Over is a problem already have 2-3 hooks available even to perkless Killers. The only caveat may be the need to kick a wall before picking up, such as on Eyrie in the top corner with the window. You can fall with ~3s of wiggle progress and still reach the hook within 5s, not even the 11 extra needed to wiggle.
Power Struggle - Yeah the perk that only also works with a second perk, Flip-Flop, and a teammate not on gens giving the Killer a massive advantage. Even then it is limited to pallets, so they are burning a macro resource. I also never thought someone would be a mad enough lad to complain about a gigachad meme build, but here we are. Also, with 45s basekit pickups and PS+FF you need ~14s of recovery instead of the current ~10s, which is almost a 50% nerf. Also even in the 'horrific' scenario of a teammate going down on pallet and someone else in the vicinity, just chase them around the pallet. You have plenty of time to get the hit or force the pallet. Because of the spawns it is also unlikely there is another pallet in the area, so they have to give you injuries/downs. Even then, you are acting like 45s of an effective incapacitated status effect with a chase on another Surv is this unwinnable game position, which seems vastly out of touch with reality. Especially given Eruption with 25s Incap made Survivor unplayable for many people who hard quit the game.
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you think 45 seconds is a lot? Hook stage is 60 seconds.
You will die after 4 minutes of being slugged, so with infinite UB basekit, you have 5x deliverance.
Killer has broken space bar? What?
You have killers who lose their power if they pick up survivor, of course then need slug.
Survivor died under pallet and I see another survivor nearby? of course I need slug and push him away, if he is in bad location, it's good idea to commit and force another survivor to help slugged. That's lot of pressure.
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Yeah, 45s is more than enough time to do your Killer taxes, kick the gen and pallet, chase off the would be rescuer, and pick them up before they could pick themselves up. Thanks for agreeing. Ultimately how long the timer feels is based on the pressure someone is under. With no pressure or massive pressure it could feel like forever. It could be 25s and feel like forever thinking "okay I have to kick the pallet I downed them at, hook them 3ft away, go use Pop, and chase the person who was resetting the boon for the third time." All that took no time at all relatively speaking, but with thoughts racing at a mile a minute it could be overwhelming to some. At the same time someone uninterrupted on a gen for 90 entire seconds could feel like it went by super quickly since nothing happened for them to pay attention to.
5x Deliverance - I wasn't aware you get 5 first hooks where you needed to rescue someone else first. I also wasn't aware you were hooked the milisecond you get downed. I thought the Killer had to actually pick them up and walk them over first.
Space Bar Broken - As in that is the only excuse to not pick up (within 45s).
Power drop on pickup - So Oni and ... that's it. You could make an argument for Ghostie, but as a Ghostie main I'll just say no. You lose your power anyways when swinging (in the majority of cases). With Oni however, you get 45s of power, subtracted by 7s per down. So even if you try to snowball from an instant down the milisecond after you start power and find no one, that was only 38s of the Survivor being slugged, so you can keep that in your mind and pick them up. Also if you managed to get all 4, it takes 45-28s for 17s of power, and you still have that 28s to pick up the first downed Survivor. Then you can hook them sequentially in the order of downing, easily within the timeframe. Even if they start crawling, they can't recover, so your timer to find them is even longer. This wouldn't kill Oni, it would kill an avenue of BM. (Also pickup early to save Blood bar as Oni is very helpful in any case where you don't know where someone is at.)
Survivor downed under pallet requiring pushing the other Surv off - Which can be done well within the 45s time limit. If it takes a player more than 45s to get them far enough away to get the pickup, that Killer player honestly needs to practice against Survivors closer to their own playtime in order to understand how to play. If the entire team is swarming the area, then gens aren't being progressed, and eventually they will all be injured, and die. Still a win for Killer.
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Oni -> it stops his power, which can be big deal unless you know about some big blood pool.
Plague, Dredge and Myers basically waste part of their power instead trying to get maximum value from it.
Cenobite if someone got cube.
Hag if someone triggered her trap.
Twins get 4 second stun for each down with Victor, it's way more effective trying to slug and get Victor on someone before going for hook.
Ghost face doesn't really have to slug, unless he screwed it and triggered expose status on multiple survivors, but that's missplay.
It woul
dkill an avenue of BM? not really, If I want to BM, I am going to do it anyway.Killer can just kill everyone else and watch single survivor bleed out. I have done same thing to survivors who were abusing boil over before nerf, or bug where they were stuck next to wall and I couldn't pick up. They teammates try to save them? So what when I can insta down them again. It's same thing for basekit UB.
It wouldn't stop BM, it would only buff survivors a lot.
Only situation where this would be acceptable change is if you remove every perk that makes it faster, so it's not variable, but constant time, which you can play around.
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Let's shorten it up to 2 minutes, problem solved yay
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