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How To Fix Gen Kicking & Gen Tapping
First, Gen Kicking:
It's annoying when you go to stop 2+ Survivors working on a 90% gen, and you, as the Killer, literally can't. You hit or grab 1 Survivor, and the others just keep working. Nothing you can do, even though Killer is supposedly the 'power role'.
So, my fix:
If the Killer does the Kick generator action; It forces all Survivors off that generator.
Naturally, any Perk that applies effects outside of the kick itself DO NOT ACTIVATE.
- You don't get Ruin's effect.
- You don't get that perk effect that blocks a gen if Survivors leave it.
- All you get is whatever is applied on kick, be that base regression, or Pop, or whatever else is applied via the 'damage generator action'. NOTHING ELSE.
This needs to happen because it's BS that the 'power role' can walk up to a generator and Survivors can point and laugh while they finish it, because currently, Repair Generator has higher priority over Damage Generator.
Now, to fix Gen Tapping:
- If Survivors start working on a kicked generator; Regression is paused and repairs go as normal.
- Within 4-8 seconds, one of the Survivors working on the gen will be given a skillcheck. If they hit it; regression is stopped for that gen, even if they now leave. They also get all the perks of hitting that skillcheck, as per normal.
- If the Survivor fails the skillcheck; they are punished as per normal. And, within another 4-8 seconds, another Survivor working on the gen will be given another skillcheck to hit.
- If all Survivors stop working on the gen before succeeding at the skillcheck, either by leaving before getting it, or after failing it; The gen resumes regressing.
This change should happen because gen kicking, on its own, is weak and almost useless. And Survivors can, literally, sprint past a generator, hipcheck it, and keep running. Why does their half-second animation end regression, but it takes Killers 3 seconds to apply it?
Comments
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Gen tapping was already addressed when gen kicks were given a 2.5% instant regression effect. If a survivor taps a gen, kick it again to apply another 2.5% instant regression, it becomes their loss.
2.5% regression is equivalent to 10 seconds of regression time.
Gen tapping was only beneficial to survivors in the context of old Call of Brine or Overcharge where gens would regress rapidly if left to regress. But now with those perks neutered, the basic gen kick is the superior tool.
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it's the strategy in the game, if your complaining on this specific scenario, then get to the gen BEFORE 90% I don't we should nerf this because you showed up a minute late, that's a little bit ridiculous.
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Except you can't kick it if they are working on it.
2 Survivors on a 90% gen and the Killer literally has 0 power to stop it. Nothing.
That should not happen in a game where the Killer is supposed to be the power role.
It's not a nerf. It's a change to make it more fair.
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It is fair you had at least 90 seconds (A full generator) to do something.
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Hit them? Losing a health state is definitely a bigger loss than 2 seconds of repair time.
Hit one, hit them again, and grab the other. If they don't stick around long enough to do that, then you have your window to kick the gen either way.
If a survivor or pair of survivors want to trade multiple health states to finish off a generator that's at ~98% already, that's their choice, and a terrible one in most cases.
3 -
There should be a channeled animation to put a regressing generator back on track, just like the channeled animation to start regression. The only reason survivors don't have to perform a channeled animation like the killer has to is because the devs thought it was funny iirc.
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Um. What the hell is your math? a gen takes 90 seconds to repair. 2.5% is a little over 2 seconds of repair time. To shave off 10 seconds would require 11%, more than an entire eruption proc.
Survivor mains on here gas lighting killers with false info to make them play worse and not complain about it.
2 -
10 seconds of REGRESSION
Regression is 0.25 charges per second.
2.5% is roughly 2.5 charges, which would take 10 seconds to regress at 0.25 charges per second.
In less than 2 seconds of action time for kicking the gen, you inflict 2.5% regression, for 10 seconds of equivalent regression time, which is equal to about 2.5 seconds of repair time. This means:
- The time spent kicking the gen is fully reimbursed
- If the survivor taps it and you kick it again, they've lost an immediate 2.5 seconds of repair time.
- You've scored another 10 seconds of equivalent regression time. AKA, the same amount of regression that would be inflicted if that generator regressed for 10 seconds.
Main of the day: Survivor
2 -
Ah. That was MB then. But I still don't think that really counters what the OP was talking about. Saying it gives 10 seconds of regression makes it sound better than it actually is for the purposes of a counter argument. Doesn't sound nearly as convincing when you say "Kicking a gen removes 2.5 seconds of repair time". And I think the argument is fair cause I 100% believe gen regression speeds are way too slow.
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There could be room for fine tuning and some buffs sure. But we've seen how oppressive the CoB/OC combo used to be in a 3-gen scenario, that would inflict around a 250% average regression rate, or around 0.625 charges per second.
Thing is, BHVR appear to believe 125% regression is worthy of being a perk in it's own right. Now the CoB nerfs are most likely more to do with how it stacks with OC, and maybe in a vacuum without OC complicating things, 150% would be a more reasonable rate of regression... for a perk.
So basekit regression speed buffs, would have to tow that line between the current 100% (0.25c/s) and the theoretical 150% perk regression (0.375c/s), while still leaving enough room for that 150% to be a significant bonus to warrant being a perk. That's not a lot of room to work with. So I'm not sure it's really worth looking at base regression rates, as it sounds like complicating things far too much for too little pay off.
I could get on board with a bit of a buff to the instant regression though. From 2.5% to maybe 4%? That would be double the time investment for kicking, and inflict around 16 seconds of regression (4 seconds of repairs). Considering that a killer already has 5% instant regression as a base power (Knight's Carnifex gen kicks) this doesn't sound unreasonable.
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That situation would've never happened had they done what the community told them to do and not make those 2 perks stack. The perks were stronger in their original PTB iterations but people were bringing both together. Rather than make it so they couldn't function together they instead nerfed both perks with the express intent for them to be used as a set. And now both of them are completely dead as a result.
Higher gen regression isn't an issue, it's killer design. If knight or skull merchant wasn't what they are then the game would be fine.
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Oh I agree. They should have just made CoB 200% and then not given OC any regression bonus at all. Instead, capitalised on OC's skill check mechanic, with bonus regression for survivors who both hit and miss that skill check. For example on an OC affected gen, hitting the skillcheck still removes 5% progress, while missing it removes 15%. (this would essentially make it so OC gave the killer a bonus 5% instant regression on gen kicks, conditional on the event of a survivor returning within 60 seconds)
That way, CoB and OC wouldn't stack, they'd complement, if a survivor came back to the gen within 60s, OC would pay off, if they didn't, CoB would pay off.
Different killer designs are a good thing though and it's not just Knight and Skull Merchant. Twins, Demogorgon, Hag, and even Nurse (not that she needs it) can employ oppressive 3-gen strategies as well. And perks need to be able to account for these. We can't just rework all killers into the same anti-loop/chase power paradigm in the name of balance.
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