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Map Offerings and Strong Items are Messing Up the Trials
Facing many survivors using a bunch of strong items and/or map offerings recently, I have now fully realized how much this is affecting the game.
Just barely, I got 4 rounds with a map offering: Coldwind, RPD, Haddonfield, and Ormond, which are all survivor-sided maps. The survivors also often brought strong toolboxes with a Brand New Part or still-strong high-tier med kits with a Syringe sometimes.
The funny thing, though, is that the games were actually almost the easiest on those hard maps, and that's because the survivors that brought me to those places were really not that skilled. I think I got 4Ks on 3/4 of them, or maybe all of them. I literally killed all 4 at 5 gens on Ormond as GHOST FACE.
Practically, the whole problem is that by bringing absurdly strong items as well as bringing the killer to a strong survivor-sided map, lower-tier survivors are forcing themselves higher up the MMR than they should be and making them face more experienced killers.
By removing Map Offerings as well as nerf (if not entirely change) the infamous genrushing Brand New Part as well as toolboxes in general, it'd probably balance the MMR a lot better.
Comments
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Killer bring map offerings and the strongest build all the time too.
Whats missing is a casual mode or a mode without any perks and items.
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As long as you delete all of the overpowered killer addons as well.
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Yes, I've played a lot of both survivor and killer rounds lately, and, though killers have sometimes brought map offerings, survivors bring maps way more often. And yes, they should nerf all the OP killer stuff too, like Alchemist Ring.
I feel like the actual chase and gen repairing right now is at a balanced spot, just the side things they are allowed to do, like killers tunneling or survivors bringing a bunch of strong toolboxes, are what is making the game seem way worse than it is.
The Devs practically need to not let people stretch that far from the base game with offerings, add-ons, perks, items, or strategies. A lot to do, but if they focus specifically on that, it can go a lot quicker.
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And yes, a casual mode would be so good to have.
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I'd say balancing the maps would solve the offering problem, but thats an iffy topic. Devs cant seem to get it right and keep releasing maps swinging too far into the extremes.
As for items? Ooh boy thats a door you'd think you didnt wanna open. Opinions are gonna be split. Even on the "survivor weak,all killer op" crowd.
Personally.... I think survivors shouldnt be able to not bring an item. Its the same as with the comms problem, cant balance survivors between having it or not. Remove all rarity items, put lost power into nasekit izem and addons.
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They should be aloud to bring items, but the items should just not affect the game as much as it does. And yeah, there are too many tryhards on both sides that wouldn't want to actually balance their OP things they're using, going from survivor items to killer add-ons.
All I want is for people to learn to play the game for fun, not to just win. Many think they like trying hard to win, but truly, this is mentally unhealthy as it makes them extremely angry when losing.
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Okay, I can't see my comment so I'm not sure if I actually posted it or not (so sorry if I am just repeating it now), but there is just a lot of balancing the devs need to do; definitely maps. And yeah, there are too many tryhards on both sides, and they'd definitely disagree with me to actually balance their extremely strong items or add-ons, like Brand New Parts, Syringes, the Alchemist Ring, and the Tombstone Piece.
I just hope that people learn to play for fun rather than just to win; it is not healthy for people to play games to just competetively win, as it makes them angry when losing, and that only hurts them mentally as well as ruins the game for those they face.
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A) i wrote to make items mandatory like killer abilities, so that survs can be balanced around always starting a trial with an item.
B) dont push your personally chosen restrictions onto an enemy if youre unwilling to follow them yourself. If you do as you preach you'd be fine with losing to a tryhard killer cuz you wouldnt want to try to escape yourself, chillax dude, why youre such a tryhard to escape bro just go for a gen and then twiddle your thumbs, you did your part by showing up.
I do hope its noticeable that B) went into sarcasm hard.
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A good idea I heard someone talking about before is that sacrificial wards need to be brown rarity and common for killers. Cause the ability to pick maps heavily favors the survivors way more than killer. Survivors have tons of maps which are either strongly in their favor or outright unfair for the killer. But on killer's side they only maybe have a few maps that are ok but nothing nearly on the same level as what the opposition has. So the survivors are far more likely to abuse map offerings than killers. Therefore the killers should have the option to just completely stonewall map offerings if they choose.
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A mode that restricts what you can bring in the name of balance sounds much more like a 'competitive mode'.
Casual mode being 'anything goes' is much more fitting.
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Honestly, yeah. Practically every realm has horrid maps for killer, so it does almost nothing for them bringing map offerings. I think they should completely just remove map offerings, because they are used just way too often, and if killers had to bring Sacrificial Wards every round, they'd not ever be able to use BP offerings unless they want to be brought to the Eyrie of Crows.
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What do you mean? If I heard you correctly, being able to use anything doesn't sound so "casual." A casual mode would be primarily based on basic gameplay rather than have tons of changes from every perk, item, or add-on the killer or survivors bring. THAT'D be competitive.
As you might be seeing in the games now, people are bringing the strongest of things, and competitive people love to do that. Those that are bringing those insane things are the people that just want to WIN, and that'd be the point of a competitive mode. Just maybe afterwards they should not be allowed to chat, otherwise the tryhards would argue.
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A competitive mode that lets you bring whatever you want and a casual mode that doesn't let bring anything (or maybe just not let you bring anything above Uncommon) would greatly separate the more relaxed players and the tryhards.
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An actual competitive mode, would have to be tightly balanced so that the competition was fair. You often see in DBD tournaments that the game is 'balanced' by limiting the survivor team to only one instance of any perk or item, limiting both sides to only brown or yellow add ons, no map offerings, or only neutral map options, etc.
An 'anything goes' mode, is a casual mode, because there is no regulation, and the outcome of any given game is as much up to RNG and matchmaking than any real display of skill. You're just as likely to be matched against a potato opponent, or an opponent who wants to dick around and farm BP, as you are a tryhard opponent or an opponent who only brings the most OP set up.
Players who only bring the most OP items and add ons are not competitive players, they're min-maxers who like to dominate. They have no interest in real competition, because that would mean testing your skill against your opponents on an even playing field. These people would be the ones who dominate any casual mode, because they have no interest in facing a real challenge, and casual mode would give them the noobs they can bully.
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Killers bring strong addons too it's not an issue exclusive to survivor.
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Except Survivor's aren't nearly as restricted. Survivor is the same exact gameplay spread across a bunch of reskins. So perks and items stay consistent. Killer is an entirely different ball game. Not everyone plays the strongest meta killers. So a try hard legion for instance is no where near the same as a try hard Nurse. And so if that try hard legion goes up against a stacked team of try hard survivors the end results are going to be extremely different.
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Someone calling RPD survivor sided O.o . Like there could maybe be an argument for haddonfield (that one sides with both sides depending on where u find the survivor), but RPD? Are you perhaps playing huntress? (No argument for farm and Ormond)
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Hell, 70% of killers doesn't even have "broken addon", and one of the strongest addons are on-par for BNP at best.
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Map offerings should not be a thing. The possibility to decide what map is played for other players in the lobby is not good in any sense.
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I would seriously argue your numbers. Especially because some killers have multiple BNP-grade addons
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Does it matter whether some killers have multiple or not? it's not like you can bring 3 or 4, all it matters is have it or don't have it.
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It does matter. It's very different if you are say pyramidhead and u don't have any BNP-grade addon, or you are C33 alch ring blight - having something that survivors just can't match. But there are multiple killerd like that. Double iri plague, MDR-amulet spirit, etc - while survivors can't effectively bring double BNP's.
Meaning both sides have unfair things. You can't target just one side and "be happy". That's just unfair no matter which side you are nerfing
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This us vs them mentality is exactly why we are suffering from so many issues in this game lol It's an issue on both sides.
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Map offerings should BAN maps, not increase their chances.
No one should have the power to drag all the other players to one person's preferred map. Not to mention it's weighted 4 survs vs one killer.
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Agreed. Hide lobby for both sides (no lobby shopping, no franklins for 4 medkits, no lightborn for 4 beamers) and then we can nerf map offerings. No side should have advantage in lobby (or keep both, but I would rather remove both sides).
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Umm, RPD is still very strong for survivors.
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To take away my personal experience (I win most times as killer on RPD's and loose most of the time as survivor on that map). Perhaps this tierlist from Otz can actually support my argument?
I am not saying I agree with every map placement in this video, but I think RPD is clear-cut killer sided no matter what
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Sorry for a late response, but I honestly still disagree. I have seen that video a while ago and am hesitant on a lot of his placements myself. I feel like the "killer-sided" maps are actually the fairer ones, while the survivor-sided ones are straight up survivor-sided.
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The problem is in the maps! What's the solution?
remove Offerings!
And somehow the maps became balanced
Even if you remove it, the game will still send you to those maps
You don't solve the problem, you make the game boring
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Perhaps you play killer more then survivor then? I don't know what else I can say to that
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As a new player learning the game, I have been thinking for a while now that the add-ons on both sides are too strong in general... when you read some of these effects of these things, they seem outright bonkers... and when you look back at the history of insta blind combos, and other major game add on issues through the years... yikes xD
Comparing to other games I play with similar systems, what add-ons should do to my mind is offer small number tweaks to encourage slightly different play-styles... I actually pretty much exclusively use brown add-ons on all my killers cause they give slight tweaks, rather than the huge game transforming effects of the other tiers, and the killer largely feels the same as base kit...
However I don't have anywhere near enough experience with the game to start suggesting something so radical like completely transforming the add ons system to remove their massive game altering effects. Any changes I would ponder asks the questions, how to make rarity mean something, and what the hell to do with the Blood Web? So more trouble than it's worth... but the strength of these things is a little weird to me.
P.s. Newb question as an aside... do brown torches, maps and keys exist for survivors? I assume not, but were they ever a thing? I was under the assumption survivors had like basic gear for various team roles, effectively serving as the survivors equivalent of a killer "power", and the rarity improved those abilities... but these other things just seem rare, to the point I'm almost afraid to run them, cause I don't fully understand how they work, there is no common version to get an idea...
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Most basic flashlight is yellow. Most basic map is green. Most basic key is green.
Yes rarities don't make sense a lot of times. Some killers have best addons that are brown or yellow (ghostface, knight, twins), while others have insane iri/purple addons (blight, meyers, pinhead, spirit, ...). At this point, I think you should take it as it is and just roll with it.
Very similar thing for items. Brown medkit and yellow flashlight are by a huge margin better then both green (or even pink) map and key
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Yes, but I've played a lot of both in the last year, so I've seen quite a bit of change on both sides. We both have our opinions, so let's politely agree to disagree. Deal?
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With you being fairly new and me having played since 2017, I'm EXREMELY glad we see eye-to-eye on add-on strength, even on the killer side. It tends to be the newer people that bring the absurd things like the Brand New Part and Hemorrhagic Syringe, thinking it's a fair thing to do. Just faced a couple survivors earlier today that brought the Syringe with an already-strong med kit.
About the items, I never bring any besides maybe a basic flashlight when playing survivor. Almost bring nothing over Rare/Green on either killer or survivor. I feel like the game's fun and fair when the survivors don't bring stuff like the BNP and the killer doesn't tunnel or camp (unless absolutely necessary, like having few hooks at 1 gen left).
The sad thing is, that's not common. Few, like me, play that way. I play for fun, not to win, and I hope more people learn that. I tend to try to get everyone to 2nd stage before killing someone, sometimes letting everyone escape if I get to that point really early.
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