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This kind of slugging shouldn't be possible
Its one thing to leave a survivor on the ground for a moment while you engage another one you saw nearby, but when you leave the last 2 survivors on the ground for an entire bleedout knowing there is absolutely nothing they can do about it then that is when slugging becomes a problem. This pic below was taken after me (Kate) and Mikaela crawled across the map hoping they'd hook us so the match would end. Mikaela eventually made it to me and the killer decided to stand there and wait for us both to bleed out. This is why we need basekit abilities to deal with these situations. If nothing exists to deter and discourage killer players from doing this, they will keep doing it. The killer has no strategic advantage at this point. They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.
Comments
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Basekit Unbreakable when all survivors are in the dying state, and when there are 2 survivors left in the game
Now
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I'll take the occasional (like maybe once every few weeks) 4 min break to get a snack or watch a short vid over the dumpster fire forced cutscene finisher mori/basekit unbreakable system.
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This most certainly does not happen only once every few weeks for me. We don't even need basekit unbreakable. We only need a way to recover when all survivors are on the ground and the killer refuses to hook us. Bleeding out should not be a way the killer gets a kill. If survivors recovered fully over time rather than bleed out there would probably be a lot less slugging.
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I don't even need this. Just add a give up button if there are two survivors left. I've had these hide and seek scenarios go on for 10+ minutes so many times in the past because of people picking up the slugged survivor.
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Every few weeks? You either don't play as much as me or your killers aren't anywhere near as sweaty. I get multiple games like this every time I play.
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I'd be okay with a basekit unbreakable which ONLY activates if the killer has downed all survivors and has not hooked any after a certain period of time. Certainly not as a general basekit perk though, since it would invalidate Unbreakable and Soul Guard entirely.
A suicide button could be in place if there is only one survivor left and is downed and left by the killer for a period of time. Certainly not if there's more than one survivor remaining.
This is rare that this happens, so any defence has to be as inobtrusive as possible for general gameplay. Only if this becomes more common would stronger measures be considered.
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Time fire up the old youtube and watch cat videos
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This is exactly what the Finisher Mori would prevent honestly.
Just end the match as soon as there are no standing Survivors left.
This prevents:
1) Killers deliberately bleeding out Survivors, just to be an ass to the Survivors.
2) Survivors crawling 300 miles across the map to where the Killer cant find them to deliberatley bleed themselves out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
3) Survivors going to areas where there is no hook within carrying range, forcing the Killer to bleed them out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
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I think that idea was intended for the last survivor and also I don't think anyone really liked that idea anyway.
I look at the situation as the killer won if they decide to hook you, but if they simply refuse to do anything at that point the survivors should be able to get another chance. Killers shouldn't be rewarded when they refuse to play the game after everyone is down. There is no need to waste people's time because someone gets a kick out of doing nothing while the survivors are left on the ground until a progress bar depletes all the way.
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Is it possible that there were no hooks around? I've had that a few times and was forced to bleed out multiple survivors because they brought too many Petrified Oaks for me to hook them.
Otherwise this is bming and I think a reportable offense (unsportsmanlike conduct).
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We both crawled across the map, past several hooks with the killer around us the whole time until Mikaela made it to where I stopped at and the killer just stood there until we both bled out completely. There were no petrified oak offerings either. The killer could've easily hooked both of us and ended the match.
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Then that's very ######### thing to do. As I said: Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
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If only there was a perk that could prevent this situation!
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If only survivors didn't have to use the same perk forever to prevent a situation that should never happen in the first place. Also there is no perk that would effectively deal with this situation anyway if used by only one person. No mither is the only perk that lets you pick yourself up more than once but offers nothing to protect you after. There would need to be some kind of endurance effect after picking yourself up given the killer is probably going to be right beside you. You would need everyone using no mither all the time also so everyone could run separate ways making the killer pick a target. These are very irrational ways to deal with needless slugging, so the whole team would need a basekit ability that activates under certain situations to prevent it.
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Boy I wish I had your luck
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... Unbreakable only works once...
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The problem is that the Finisher Mori is also a way for a quick victory, which incentives killers to play for a slug victory. You potentially end up with more slugging overall, not less. Killers load in with Knock Out and play for a Finisher Mori from the start. Sure, the game ends when all 4 are down, but there's a whole lot of whack a mole going on before that.
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Crap! I left my crystal ball at work. Good thinking though!
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I've literally been asking them to work Moris into the normal gameplay loop for at least 3 years.
Finisher mori not only solves a functional problem if implemented well it just gives a reason to even have mori animations in the first place. Like I'm not burning a mori offering just to watch people DC or trying to bet on devour hope surviving longer than a minute.
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This is exactly why they were testing it alongside basekit unbreakable, because it they didn't it would just mean most killers slug. Unfortunatly basekit Unbreakable was busted.
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A give up button is an incentive for killers to slug
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Like 2 killers are more annoying but that’s it.
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I'm genuinely baffled by the idea that apparently this problem is so widespread that it needs a basekit solution, but simultaneously it's not so widespread as to be worth taking any perks to avoid it.
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The weird part is that a killer isn't rewarded for bleeding out a survivor. They don't get any blood points other than a few points for "bleeding" and the bleed outs don't count as kills as their killer rating will go down from "Merciless Killer" to "Ruthless Killer" with one bleed out.
It is a way to decrease MMR though, so maybe people are bleeding out survivors for that. 4 bleed outs will get an "Entity Hungers" rating which is considered as 4 losses in MMR world.
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This is a widespread problem. If you are "baffled" by this then you are just not playing survivor. I was watching Skermz just yesterday (3000 viewers) and he DC'd to not get slugged.
Unbreakable does not fix anything in this situation. You burn it, what now? The game is still lost, you'll get downed, and slugged again. The only thing you have achieved by getting up is to pause the timer which makes you stay even longer in the match.
Almost every game nowadays one survivor gets slugged for several minutes. Either because the killer wants 4k or because they are angry with life. This is not fun and should be addressed. If the game is over then everyone should be able to quickly leave regardless of someone's personal issues.
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This should be bannable behavior in my opinion. If you are bleeding out multiple survivors and refusing to hook them it's holding the game hostage / griefing. If survivors have gone to an area without hooks, perhaps killers need to be more aware of where they are downing / hooking survivors. If a survivor runs to an isolated hook that is not near any generator then let them go over there and waste the teams time. Survivors shouldn't be punished for playing well. If killers can't plan ahead a bit it doesn't give them an excuse to intentionally bleed out multiple players for 4 minutes.
And in tired of people saying "well, there are perks to combat slugging ... ". We all know that Unbreakable is never going to solve this kind of behavior. Baseline Unbreakable won't even solve it.
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Give up button should only available when all survivors are down, so it gives survivor ability to skip if all of them being slugged, but not letting the 3rd survivor gives up for hatch.
With the button or not, killers who slug will slug no matter what survivors have in basekit.
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UNBREAKIABLE BASEKIT AFTER 2 MINUTE OF SLUGGING SEEMS MORE THAN FAIR ALSO WE GET PENELITIES FOR DC YES SLUGGING IS A STRAT BUT NOT LIKE THIS SO KILLERS SHOULD ALSO GET PENELTIES FOR SLUGGING THE LAST 2 SUSVIVOURS IT ALWAY SHOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS SO THE KILLER DON'T LEAVE THE SECOND LAST ON THE GROUND TO BLEED OUT BECUASE THEY ARE DESPRATE FOR A 4K THEIRS NO POINT TO HAVE HATCH IF OVER 90% SLUGGSD THE SECOND LAST PERSON IT'S A POINTLESS MECHANIC.
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What if slugged survivors could heal each from dying state other but in much slower speed? So Killer would be forced to hook on of them.
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I prefer the unbreakable when all survivors are downed
Again, your suggestion just incentives slugging even more
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If survivors gain unbreakable when all are downed. Lets say Meg, Clau, Jake downed, Dwight runs around killer with a flash light:
- Dwight asking to get hit and down, making his teammates to get use of unbreakable
- or picking one up and possibly getting flash light saved.
Many slug killers play slug to gain pressure. Its difference to killers who slug because they want to toxic on survivors.
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Getting all 4 Survivors downed is already a win condition for the Killer even without the Finisher Mori, literally all the Finisher Mori does is stop the game from getting stalled out.
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You're leaving out the gigantic downside that the Finisher Mori becomes hands down the fastest, most efficient way to play the game if they were to implement it directly from that ptb.
Which means every game is suddenly a game of survivor whack a mole until everyone bleeds out or the killer gets all 4 down at once.
It also means tunneling one survivor out is the fastest way to finish the game, since slugging 3 survivors for a win becomes way easier than slugging 4.
It would be incredibly detrimental to the game to actively encourage that kind of play style. And putting the finisher Mori in the game would change how people play to try and force it to happen.
It's not just a reactive 'it shortens an already won game', it actively changes the meta in a terrible way.
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Yeah, if everybody is down and nobody has a way to get up, the game should just end.
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Yea, but it also makes no one wanting to be the last survivor in the match. They are essentially being made the example of failure of the team regardless how well they or anyone else played. I really don't think this change would be well received.
Thats a cool idea. They could also make medkits more useful and allow them to pick yourself up a certain number of times after filling up the recovery bar. I guess if that was a thing though every killer would start using franklin's demise.
I had no idea players go down in MMR for bleeding out survivors over hooking them.
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Yesterday we had a very disgusting wraith with nurses calling and disgusting franklins ofc, literally trying to just injure and 4k slug everyone. He didnt put no one on the hook and bleed 3 people out then puts me on the hook . The only way we kinda was able to recover was i had bite the bullet + shadow step so he couldnt get value out of nurses until he kept kicking out my shadow step. But it was stupidly disgusting and unnecessary and this was at 5 gens. Why on earth is something like this not considered holding the game hostage?
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Playing to win isn’t holding the game hostage. I hope BHVR never listens to people like you.
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There were two survivors still up, I don't really understand why he DCed.
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The problem with the PTB, was a bunch of survivors were running Unbreakable/Flip Flop/Tenacity/Breakdown, and purposely placing themselves in situations where the killer couldn't hook them. A regular toolbox sabotage was also long enough for a survivor to self recover, if they had unbreakable, so the killer was stuck waiting there for the hook to respawn.
TD;LR, survivors abused the basekit unbreakable as much as they could, so the whole PTB needed to be thrown in the trash.
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They don’t need the forced mori. That’s the problem. They took a good solution and ruined it by trying to do extra unnecessary things.
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I’ve had this exact thing happen several times this week.
survivor 1: dead
survivor 2: dead
survivor 3: being chased
me: doing gen
survivor 3 goes down. I start getting ready to find the hatch only for the killer to leave survivor 3 slugged. When the killer can’t find me they go back to the survivor to pick them up and let them wiggle off. I had a skull merchant slug leon like 4 times yesterday because she couldn’t find me. Leon would hop on gens in the mean time. I even helped leon do gens when she would walk away.
in the post game “you could have done gens”. Like that’s some sort of solution. If I stay on gens she finds me and kills me 100%. The problem is killer’s absolutely refusing to let someone get hatch. And it’s not even them letting it happen because more often than not the killer finds it first anyway. This slug to win meta has to stop.
bhvr had the right idea but had to go and ruin it with the stupid auto mori thing. We don’t need all that. Survivors need a counter to killers slugging. Maybe every minute you’re left on the ground you have the option to pick yourself up. If killers don’t want base kit unbreakable then stop slugging.
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It’s interesting you consider the last two to as being purely antagonistic from survivors.
Going 300m away from the killer is probably so they’re not seen and hoping the hatch spawns near enough to get to without being spotted.
Also even if it is just to hide, it might be to avoid seeing the killer stand there watching them bleed out or ‘hump-tech’/ax throws/slinger gunshot/clown bottles/wraith bell etc spam over your slugged body.
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my dude if the killer got four downs in 40 seconds he deserves the win, even with knock out nurse it would be really hard the only thing one surivivor needs to do is run to the opposite side of the map
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Hooking all 4 Survivors is also winning, slugging them on the ground to bleedout aint necessary. Dont act like you dont know this
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It isn’t my preferred tactic, but the killer player is allowed to play however they see fit.
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Oh I know, doesnt mean it should be encouraged or it should stay. The only reason to bleed 4 Survivors out (with VERY few exceptions) is to BM and to make them sit there for the entire duration of the bleed out.
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And the survivors can come here to the forums and talk about how much we hate this "tactic" and hopefully influence a change to unnecessary slugging. The hooks are there for a reason. They are part of your objective and normal gameplay as a killer. There is no reason to leave survivors on the ground for prolonged or full bleed outs.
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No it really isnt. Finisher mori doesnt somehow magically make slugging all remaining survivors easier or faster, it literally just cuts out the part where the Killer has to meander around the map picking people up and the survivors just have to wait.
It gives zero benefit to the killer, it's literally just an time-saving/anti-stall thing.
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Any change you could make to prevent “unnecessary” slugging would also hurt instances in which the killer needs to slug.
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I disagree, hell hiding is a valid strategy for survivors but we still got crows because prolonging the game isn't very fun but someone the killer is allowed to prolong the game?
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