This kind of slugging shouldn't be possible

245

Comments

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,742

    Easier? No, but that's not what I said.

    It rewards the killer with a literal instant win for: tunnel the first survivor at 5 gens immediately, then slug the last 3. That becomes the fastest way to win the game, and it isn't a fun play style for anyone.

    The incentive is there, so playing this way becomes 'optimal', and what do were already know about 'optimal' gameplay in DbD? People will play like that and convince themselves there's money on the line in a tournament, even if it's never necessary.

    And the cost of this is infinite unbreakable, which makes every down with a nearby flashlight lose/lose. If you pick up, flashlight save, if you leave them slugged and can't get the second down quickly, they get up.

    Literally no one wants the finisher Mori to see the light of day.

  • Dogma_loki
    Dogma_loki Member Posts: 436

    “Needs to slug” 🫣

    Normally I say this as a joke, but in this instance…..

    Skill issue. Git gud.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    Why are 3 survivors downed and no one on the hook in the first place?

    Oh yeah, the killer is slugging, and we are literally discussing something to counter that

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    1 down then 3 other surrounding killer with flashlight, what's killer going to do? Pick the down survivor up and flashlight save? Or try to down them all and then the 1st, 2nd survivors Unbreakable?

    Im trying to create a scenario where survivors can abuse if 4 survivors down gain free Unbreakable.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    That sounds like free pressure even with the basekit unbreakable

    You will be able to hook at least 2 survivors in that situation

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Until picking the 1st survivor have flashlight saved by the 2nd survivor and they continue doing so. Downing 1st and 2nd, pick the 3rd, 4th flashlight save. What are you gonna do next? Trying to down the 3rd and 4th survivor? Or picking 1st and 2nd?

    Its a loops. There are team that dont want to do Gen, just flashlight with Head On. Free Unbreakable isnt a way.


    Again, killers who slug for pressure (not Nurse slugging game) is not a problem, killers that make survivors bleeding on the ground for 4min, or slug for 4k are.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    Killer downing 4 survivors can hook at least 1, maybe 2 before the other 2 recover

    There are survivors on the hook and all others are injured

    Nobody is on gen

    Sounds like winning

  • LuthirFontaine
    LuthirFontaine Member Posts: 375

    O God not slug races what ever shall we do with out slug races. I would rather never see any of that again if it means no more bleed out.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    I could easily say the same thing, just changing for "killers don't deserve to have their hands held when they play scummy"

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,388

    Playing in a way that you don't like isn't scummy.

    I'll agree that bleeding out 4 slugged survivors is scummy- only and only if the killer can easily hook them. That scenario should have sped up bleed out. Otherwise, it's not scummy to slug players who don't bother spreading out and instead keep rushing the killer.

  • DudelPuma
    DudelPuma Member Posts: 329

    bhvr can't bring it in because the swf troops will abuse it with power struggle + flip flop, sabo actions etc... but bhvr could bring it in in a simplified version, as soon as only 3 people are alive then it will be activated, they should at the beginning purely dcn so that they abuse the swf turppen it, but a 3 against 1 is known to be easy for the killer to handle (see why the killers tunnel) at the same time the slugging is fixed

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
    edited May 2023

    I don’t think you get it. Hiding doesn’t progress the game and you get crows because of this. Slugging can progress the game because it gives the killer pressure and results in a win if they manage to down everyone. That’s a bad comparison. Furthermore, I wouldn’t care if they removed the crows. Experienced killers don’t need them to find people.

  • LuthirFontaine
    LuthirFontaine Member Posts: 375

    How is refusing to hook and dancing around progressing the game?

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,417

    But staying at the exitgate and T-bagging the killer for 2 minutes of every match is ok?

    The killer can just push survivors out, they cant be helt responisble for their own actions right?

    this ^ have been happening for a very long time, i see this as karma striking back.

    Also, i rarely play killer and i still get groups there run to no hook spots on the map when i do, no options to let them bleed or let them win.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    That is not true at all. Instances in which the killer "needs" to slug are minimal. Arguments could be made that the killer just needs to avoid hooking anyone until all 4 survivors are down but if every killer played like that the survivor experience would be miserable. The only situation that slugging a survivor seems fair or needful is if you down someone and you see another survivor nearby that could potentially blind the killer or sabo a hook. If no one is around, pick the survivor up and attempt to hook them. There is no long list of reasons a killer player needs to slug survivors.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    99.98% of survivors do not do this. You are being completely irrational and missed the point entirely by sticking to your original argument which was never an argument. If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to. Your "2 minute" argument doesn't make any sense. 2 minutes is a quarter length of a match usually. We've also already established that no perk would effectively counter this situation. The only thing that would be effective is if every survivor ran no mither every match and were able to coordinate a perfectly timed full recovery which would force the killer to pick a target while the others ran away. This would require precision that only a swf with comms could pull off, so it is completely irrational to use a perk argument to deal with something that effects everyone both solo and swf.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,417
    edited May 2023

    If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to.

    Come on, survivors are not helpless babies that need daddy or mommy killer to help them out, and unless its bots, they are able to leave on their own.

    • They do this just to be toxic.. I dont care if the killer can push them out, its completley besides the point im making
    • Team A waste time of Team B, as a consequence Team B waste the time of Team A - now Team A is crying.

    But when the killer does it back, its unfair and the killer should be punished, talke about having double standards.


     We've also already established that no perk would effectively counter this situation.

    This is on you, sorry to say... but it really is, you should read up on the perks again, or watch some youtube videos.


    The killer has no strategic advantage at this point. They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.

    Yet you defending the exit gate camping,  They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374
    edited May 2023

    I'm not defending anything. I didn't make this thread saying any behavior in this game is Ok or justified. You did that. If you think survivors standing in the exit gate tbagging you is a problem then go make your own thread about that instead of trying to hijack mine. You're trying to make the argument that a killer blatantly slugging the last remaining survivors for a full bleed out is the same as a situation that you can literally end by taking 2 steps into an exit gate and pressing M1. Let me know when its just as easy for survivors to remedy the slugging situation I brought up in my OP as it is for killers dealing with survivors bouncing up and down at an open exit gate. You are beyond irrational at this point and showing an extreme bias by comparing 2 situations that are in no way mitigated the same ways. You have a way to deal with exit gate survivors. We have nothing to deal with the situation mentioned in my OP without everyone on comms using no mither and spreading out. You may as well advocate for every survivor only doing SWF with comms at this point if you think its so easy to deal with this.

    And by the way, when I said "they only do this to be toxic" I am specifically referring to the killer players who do this. You tried to turn that around and make the same argument assuming "99.98%" of survivors tbag in the exit gate. They don't. You know they don't.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,417

    I'm not defending anything. I didn't make this thread saying any behavior in this game is Ok or justified. You did that.

    What??

    If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to.


    We have nothing to deal with the situation mentioned in my OP without everyone on comms using no mither and spreading out.

    Why dont you spread out, crawling to the same spot is a huge mistake on your part, and you just make it too easy for the killer. Spreading out and using the perks you say dosnt exist, is an effictive counter.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,417

    If you think survivors standing in the exit gate tbagging you is a problem then go make your own thread about that instead of trying to hijack mine.

    I see a connection to the 2 events that is why im telling you in this thread..

    (and for the record, im a survivor main not killer, anymore)

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374
    edited May 2023

    Ok, I guess its time to make no mither base kit. I said the perk solution you think so easily counters this is irrational for a reason. You want every survivor to run no mither forever to deal with killers who do this. That is never going to happen and neither is it a rational solution to the problem.

    Also me stating the irrationality of your take isn't me defending the behavior you mentioned of survivors. I didn't make this thread with the argument of "please survivors stop tbagging killers at exit gates so they'll stop slugging us like this." You brought that argument here, and I showed you how irrelevant it was.

    Post edited by KateMain86 on
  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    Power Struggle abuse will not matter if they can pick themselves up after all survivors are downed

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    Again, in that case (players who dont bother spreading out), you can hook a couple of them and go for the others. They are not doing gens, you have all the pressure. I don't know how you see this as bad for killers

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,388

    It is bad for killers because just one Unbreakable can completely turn the tides of the match. It is a powerful yet slept on perk because people would rather use perks to waste killers time in a chase.

    Just like how you want to punish killers for taking a risk by slugging 4 people, survivors should be punished for taking a risk and bunching up.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,089

    Now that's the killer's fault for letting 1 unbreakable lose the match for them

    Talking about holding hands

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,417

    Why do you keep talking about no mither, its a ######### perk, try with (yes i will help you since you choose not to look up on perks or watch videos to get better, as i suggested, and you are welcome btw.) Unbreakable, and as i said... you screwed your self by not splitting up.

    You want rewards for bad play??

    Im not sure you understood what i really said...

    That toxic stuff toward killers have been an on-going thing for a long time, i think killers had finnaly gotten enough and is paying back, does that mean that i think its fun to get slugged?? no... but i do understand why it happens, but you know, its so rare that i get slugged, but its not rare that the survivors drag time.

    You are asking for the whole game to change because you run into an issue on rare occations, as a result of bad play from the survivors.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,388

    Playing well - Out playing four people and punishing them for their mistakes.

  • Eelanos
    Eelanos Member Posts: 428

    Am I being incredibly dense right now or there's nothing preventing anyone doing this exact same thing right now on live?

    Also, and this is not particularly directed at Coffeecrashing (in an accusing manner, at least), your example just triggered this thought, but why people seem okay with survivors having perks to prevent "unfun" gameplay like Guardian, Kindred, Reassurance, Unbreakable and the like, but the moment an update could potentially require a killer to run a specific perk to counter an unfun new gameplay type, suddenly that shouldn't be allowed?

    Like, survivors get slugged to death, "Just equip Unbreakable lol". But if basekit Unbreakable was a thing "Oh, no, there's nothing I can do against this" as if stuff like Iron Grasp didn't exist.

    Heck, we can even ask for Iron Grasp buffs or some sort of basekit update like "If a survivor wiggles off your shoulder, their next wiggle attempt gets increased by [X] seconds until hooked. If they wiggle off twice in a row, the survivor can't escape your grasp again until hooked".

    Just because the worst case scenario of an update that has been sorely needed could potentially get really bad there's no reason to give up on the idea altogether. They just have to polish it.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    For not splitting up? Did you look at my screenshot and conclude that we both stood there and let the killer down us? Did you not read my OP at all? We CRAWLED to that location after both being downed. We were nowhere near each other when we got downed. There is nothing you can say to make this look better than the terrible situation that it is. Your entire argument since you came here has been "well since survivors are mean to us we are mean to them." I am saying this situation SHOULD NOT EXIST at all. Slugging is not a rare occasion either. It happens a lot and if you come to the forums and read what people say you'd see that its a very common thing brought up here.

    Also don't you think that maybe just maybe some killers do this just because they like being toxic? Your entire argument has been "oh its payback time for all the tbagging" as if that is the only reason they do this.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    To abuse? No, to counter something that shouldn't be a problem to begin with. I just don't want to be left on the ground for an entire bleedout while the killer stands there and refuses to hook us. That deserves to be punished. I'm not demanding anything. I'm stating how terrible this situation is and suggesting game changes be made to help reduce the occurrence of it. Also a conditional change is all that is needed for this. If every survivor is down and the killer refuses to hook anyone for a certain amount of time then survivors should be able to fully recover. That isn't asking for a lot.

  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    And what if the Survivors do something like all run into a dead zone so the Killer cannot hook anyone?

    To the game; It looks like the Killer is refusing to hook anyone, and thus they can pick themselves up. And thus, they run to that dead zone every time, so they can be downed and pick themselves up, and never be hooked or bleed out.

    Abuseable.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the problem I mentioned in my OP. In fact I even said at the start there are circumstances slugging makes sense, such as the one you mentioned here. What happened to me wasn't the result of using any certain perk or playing a certain way. It was the result of nothing more than the killer being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. That is the problem being brought to light in this thread.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,555

    Well we know BHVR were experimenting with ending the game immediately once all surviving survivors are down (the Finisher Mori). Hopefully that's been scraped, but they could release something in a similar vein, where when all survivors are downed they can all voluntarily vote to end the game. It won't prevent trolling (plenty of randoms will vote no just to be a PITA) but it'll probably lessen the degree to which BM slugging happens as I imagine most survivors will vote yes. It also would allow those with something like Unbreakable to still try and salvage the game, without everyone just forcing themselves out of the game before it's actually over.

  • MarylinMonhoe
    MarylinMonhoe Member Posts: 132

    Guy spent real life money to get this skin and acts like a baby wraith


    As for me, slugging killers come and go, yesterday was one of this day.

    A trickster slugged us all at 5 gens freaking gens, then a Wraith did it at 3 gens, then again and again. The only one who didn't do it was Bubba, it's rare but it happens. Too bad for the trickster, he played later that day as a survivor and I remembered it, so I played against him and constantly gave away his position. Ended up dc'ed. I am that petty, yes.

    But BHVR can't really do anything about it, if someone decides to slug, nothing will stop him (and the same goes for camping and tunnelling)

  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426

    Yesterday in a game, 4 chose springwood as the map. Two of them had mettle of man and boil over

    Throughout the game they hid in the basement of the school near the generator. Of course, it was impossible to get them to a hook as no one is close to that point. I let the other two players repair all the gens but the two who tried this brilliant tactic bled to death. They would get up and hit the ground again and again and again. It lasted quite a while as a match, it ended with 2 escaped 1 dead on the hook (he made a mistake and got caught near the stairs where I managed to bring him to a hook) while the last one I watched him bleed to death . He got up, fell to the ground, got up, fell to the ground.

    Next game, Autoheaven, flashlight sabo squad, all with boil overs. It was fun I admit, but since they were running around the corners of the map ready to sabotage hooks well, the last two left waited on the grass for 4 long minutes.

    Apart from the fact that they were two of the funniest matches of the last period, at least they were original in terms of ideas, without being able to resort to slugging I would never have won or at least had an even match.

    This is to say that, as long as these possibilities exist, it will be necessary to be able to resort to slugging

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
    edited May 2023

    99,98% is quite an assumption. Is 1 survivors staying at the gate, you count it as 4?

    There is still the different that killers can just push them out, 4 survivors on the ground cant do anything. I dont waste Killer time, as I just push tbagger out and they cant waste mine. But what I cant control? Yes. 4min bleeding.

    Its not karma when most survivors get slugged are those Solo that dont deserved to be slugged. Those bully survivors (who are "deserve" to get slugged) dont easily get slugged to begin with.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    Survivors who do this are going to do it whether a change is made to address slugging or not. The situations you mentioned are irrelevant to players who play normally. If you get a team that has players who are going to run to a dead zone for example to avoid being hooked then it won't matter if they can recover from a slug since you can knock them down again in that dead zone if they stay there. What are they going to do if you let them run from it? Start doing objectives? If so then great because that is what they should be doing anyway. The point is, if they decide to make a dead zone their priority they will eventually die from bleedout with or without a means to recover from the slug. The only thing adding a solution to full team slugging would do is allow survivors who play normally to recover from a situation the killer never should've been allowed to put them in (refusing to hook survivors). With a means to recover, the hook avoiding survivors will still bleed out. You just get to knock them down a few more times during the process.

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    OMG bleeding out is a problem? really?

    Entitlement is so high on here...

    What next... survivors will not leave during endgame?

    Get up, make a drink / go to toilet and sit back down again... simples