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Visualization of the the “anti-face camping mechanic.”
Credit to GoofestGoober on reddit. This goes way beyond “face camping.” Killers will be punished by simply playing. Very concerning how little the devs understand their own game.
Comments
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...We still don't know what the numbers on the bar are, though. Honestly, I also have to say I'm very rarely as close to a hook as the first and second pictures show without other survivors also being around that are trying to loop me around their teammate, so even this doesn't look all that scary. Seems like the bar might fill up partway as you're walking away, that's all.
The only concern will be multi-level maps, and that's something the PTB will be testing, whenever it is.
19 -
Stop acting like if you step one foot closer than what's shown in the last pic that the survivor on the hook immediately unhooks themself, the exit gates magically open, they teleport to the gate, and their t-bagging sets your machine on fire.
Go patrol gens.
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Minimizing and condescending. Standard forum Survivor main.
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and then you start crying that the killers are patrolling gen 3
will you ever be satisfied?
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It seems like all of your concerns about this, in all of your dozen or so posts on the topic, will be answered on Tuesday.
I'm not even sure what you're so stressed about in these pictures. The bar takes time to fill, and we don't know how long that is, or if it even begins filling right away. It likely will fill within 60 seconds or what's even the point.
It's entirely possible the bar doesn't fill at all until the killer has a chance to walk away. It would make sense to not start filling until about 5 seconds, since any killer can leave a 15m radius in that time.
You're going to give yourself a stroke with this topic.
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"The bar will still take time to fill."
"We don't know the numbers, yet"
Doesn't matter, the mechanic is only supposed to punish face campers, as it is now it also affects Killers who don't camp.
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If only the dev team could implement this whole idea in a controlled environment where the strengths and weaknesses could be observed and then the values adjusted.
Imagine if we publicly tested this feature on a server, gave feedback and the devs addressed any and all issues.
That would be pretty neat huh?
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The numbers would make a gigantic difference to that, though. If the bar takes a while to fill, you won't be punished for just walking away from the hook, even if the range is the full 16m as shown here. If another survivor being present slows it down to a crawl, you won't be punished for chasing near the hook either.
Not knowing the numbers isn't some feeble defence here, the numbers are going to swing this hard in one way or the other. It's not an element you can just ignore.
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Typical dismissive comment from someone who doesn’t care at all about the experience of killer players. Go try playing killer sometime then post your videos showing us all how easy it is.
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The mechanic is supposed to punish face camping, full stop. It is not supposed to provide a new method of unhooking against Killers who don't face camp, no matter how effective or ineffective.
If it were impossible to prevent face camping with a smaller radius we'd have grounds for discussion, but that's not the case.
The fact is that the mechanic goes further than it needs to, to fulfill its purpose and thereby harms Killers who aren't engaging in the behaviour that is supposed to be prevented and that is indefensible.
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Go patrol gens
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Ironic.
The WHOLE REASON they're adding this mechanic is because there are killers who don't care at all about the experience of survivor players. Try getting face-camped sometime.
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...Again, whether or not it does provide a new method of unhooking is going to depend on how fast the meter fills up, among other things. That's literally my point.
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I have - lots of times. I know it sucks. I also know that there is a huge difference between the killer being within range to grab someone and being 16 meters away from the hook looking for survivors that they know are coming for the rescue. I play killer enough to know that there are often legitimate and necessary reasons to stay close to the hook and it’s not to facecamp just to be a d###. But you and others who are making these types of dismissive comments seem to think that there is never a legitimate reason for a killer to be near the hook and it’s always because the killer just wants to ruin someone’s game.
I’m totally fine seeing how this plays out but I’m also not going to be dismissive about legitimate concerns from killer players.
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The method exists because of the 16m range and because the bar still fills when another Survivor is nearby. How fast the bar fills only decides how effective the method is. The possiblity, no matter how small, of a bar-assisted self-unhook against a not-face camping Killer, doesn't need to and shouldn't exist, but with this system it does.
2 -
They tried something like this a while ago and didn't implement it because survivors abused it. I'm sure that's why they're taking it into consideration this time around.
It's just all these posts popping up acting like killers are going to get perma-banned if they ever step within 16 meters of a hooked survivor again.
The only legitimate concern is this mechanic not affecting the king of face-camping if he can chew through endurance and put you right back on the hook, regardless of who is unhooking.
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We do though, they literally told us:
at 5 meters it fills up really fast
at 5-10 it fills up a bit slower
at 10-16 it fills up slow
at 16+ it doesn't fill up at all.
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it has to be pretty fast because hook timer are 60 seconds. You need to kobe from a hook before 60 seconds otherwise mechanic is failure because if the killer is still getting 2nd stages by sitting on hook then the system ultimately is ineffective at being anti-camping. If I had to take a guess, It would likely be 15 seconds. 15 second is plenty to get away from the hook. If you haven't went away from hook by 15 second then you probably are just face-camping which system is trying discourage.
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Getting away from the hook isn't enough, with the 16m range you also need to stay away from the hook.
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That's not all the numbers, they're talking about time and you know it, stop being disingenuous.
It could be:
at 5 meters it fills up in 20 seconds
at 5-10 it fills up in 40 seconds
at 10-16 it fills up in 60 seconds
If at 10-16m it fills up at a rate of 60 seconds, the same duration of a hook state, you only need to dip out to 17m for a second to make it unviable.
7 -
16 meters is not that big in normal maps. my major concern with system is that it might work on double floors. for example you could be playing elementary school or gideon meat packing plant and the game might class you as facecamping despite fact that you are on different floor. So I assume they thought of this and hopefully it only works on same floor where the survivor has direct line of sight, similar to Rebbeca Reassurance perk.
1 -
What planet do you live on where 10 meters isn't camping? Killers move at 4.4m/s, that's 2 seconds to reach the hook, that's 100% camping.
At 10 meters you can still see the hook and any survivors within about 30 meters of it, you can very easily make it back to the hook before any survivor gets close.
7 -
depends killer. facecamping is normally classed for when you are able to interrupt the unhook with an attack. for most m1 killers, this is around 6 meters but the system needs to accommodate all others killers which of course is ranged killers. If radius was 6 meters, you could still throw a hatchet and facecamp. the extra 10 meters is for ranged killer like corrupt puke plague, pyramid head and trickster camping.
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"It's not for camping it's for face camping"
Face camping doesn't exist, and hasn't for years, because you can't bodyblock the hook anymore. It's used a colloquial term for camping, because camping even if it doesn't involve staring at the survivor is still a problem. There is no tangible difference to camping within 1 meter, or camping within 10 meters, because the killer can still intercept any hook save and score a potential hook grab within that distance.
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If it was specifically for 'face' camping, then it wouldn't be 16m. It also wouldn't be worth bothering with, because then facecampers would just very easily transition to camping further than 1 meter away with absolutely no effect on gameplay.
It would be like removing instant flashlight blinds, but only if you're within 10 degrees of the killers vision, because the other 77 degrees are fair game.
If you think only face camping is the problem, then you are utterly clueless about this game.
Post edited by BoxGhost on7 -
Yes, how fast the bar fills decides whether it's ineffective - IE, not a new method - or effective, which is why we can't comment too harshly on the range until we've tested it and know how fast the bar fills. It's entirely possible that 16m is too far, but we can't know that until we have the other half of the system to compare it to.
As someone else pointed out, I meant how fast the bar fills up. That half of the system isn't immaterial, it is vitally important for understanding exactly how the whole thing works.
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So the issue is hook grabs, right? That's what you've said.
You can make a hook grab from anywhere within 10 meters, because the killer is faster than the survivor, and at 10 meters can easily view the hook and the surrounding area and watch for approaching survivors. 10 meters provides the same effective camping ability as 1 meter face camping.
Adding a mechanic to prevent only face camping, while still allowing anything between 2 and 10 meters, does absolutely nothing to the game whatsoever.
In no scenario has a survivor seen a killer who is between 2 and 10 meters of a hook and thought, "oh that's fine, the killers not facecamping, so I can make a hook save".
Try looking at things pragmatically, take into account the substance of the argument, instead of trying to score points on semantics.
7 -
Why are we still talking about this?
It all depends on the numbers and how long it takes to fill up the bar.
10 -
This comment is.....icky.
Oh, and before you ask, yes I do care about Killers and yes, I do play Killer.
Post edited by BoxGhost on7 -
People are acting like these photos are supposed to be some sort of smoking gun?
Please, any one of you, tell me what on earth you're possibly doing within those 16m that isn't camping? I'll wait.
The proposed changes are in place to discourage camping. If you're within 16m, you're definitely camping. I need whatever you are smoking, if you believe all of the gens you need to patrol and survivors you need to chase are within those 16m.
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If the mechanic isn't for camping, and 10-16m isn't facecamping, then why does the range go out that far? Let's see, there's two options. Either bhvr is out of their minds and thinks 10-16m is facecamping, or, maybe, JUST MAYBE, the system is for """"camping"""" instead of """"""""""facecamping."""""""""" Read the roadmap buddy, tell me what it says
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The whole point of the idea is to give hooked survivors a way to escape a situation that puts them in a greater disadvantage than they should be in. There is no reason to be this close to a hooked survivor without some form of intent of camping. I really do feel like the killer players who keep trying to find some huge issue with this probably rely on camping way too much to secure an elimination. Survivors are starved in utility access for many situations in this game. This change will address one of those areas.
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That's odd, why doesn't bhvr give nearly as much of a crap about the distinction between camping and face camping?
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Devs are the same ones who also said the range is gonna reach out 16m. If you're gonna ride the devs do it consistently
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While 16m is long, remember that 10-16m is suppose to charge up slowly. Without the numbers to judge how fast the bar charges up at each range and the effect of each survivor in range, I don't see a reason to get up in arms over the feature yet.
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I think @1ettuce gave you all the rebuttle you need, honestly.
But personally, if you are camping at the 10-16m range, you are effectively face camping. That said, we don't really need to be a semantic samuel about this, because the issue isn't a matter of semantics. The issue is "how many meters away from hook do we want to discourage the killer from camping?" It appears the developers settled on 16m, and I would agree with them. A killer who is standing within 16m and watching the hook is not being very engaging--they are facilitating a behavior that should be discouraged for the health of the game.
If you're going to complain about "he said-she said," then you're not looking at the real issue.
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:3
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killers really took this one hard, huh. the only argument i'll allow you guys to have is for multi level maps. this will be tested on ptb and either it'll be scrapped entirely because they couldn't implement the fixes or it'll be fixed for multi level maps. stop acting like this is the end of the world bffr
5 -
no
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So again I ask you, if the system is only meant for facecamping then why does it extend to 16m? And why does the roadmap only say camping?
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“It’s the end of face camping as we know it, and I feel fine.” - R.E.M. probably
As a 50/50 surv/killer I don’t face camp as a tactic and hate being face camped / tunneled so however this gets properly implemented will be a welcome change!
Commence with the whining…
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Man, you are really desperate to keep camping in the game. 3 Threads already about the same topic.
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Go patrol gens, leave hook, you go to gens that have no progress, they get unhook, reset, leave, and now you have no pressure. Great idea!
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this wont fix proxy camping though lol.
0 -
Minimizing and condescending.
You are trying to spin 16m into “face camping.” Unreal.
Boom, gottem’.
1 -
it seems lackluster rn, it will definitely harm non-camping killers on multi floor maps and it definitely can be abused by the killer and the survivors. as killer you can just stand barely out of the range and play the grab mini game once survivors come for the rescue. and survivors can just loop around the hooks. we will see, ptb will drop and the system should get improved after, surely?
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What about the situation where an active gen is within 16m of the hook? The killer is supposed to just let survivors go to town on it lest the anti-camping mechanism punishes him by losing a hook state? What about multi-story maps and buildings?
This needs a lot more thought before potentially going live, but sadly I suspect the devs will once more either ignore or put in a miniscule tweak and put it in anyway.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they did 16m so soloq players know the killer is near hook. Bet money that this system is to deal with face camping and give soloq survivors the info they need to deal with camping in general. There should be a bar in the HUD that will fill showing the killer is somewhat near and then the survivors can kobe off hook if the killer stays very close otherwise it does nothing.
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I have been saying this for years, and it is like a fever dream now that BHVR is actually implementing some kind of solution to camping. It is NOT a strategy. It is trolling. It might as well be considered an exploit, like infinite looping was. You are FORCING the match to grant you a high chance of an inorganic 3-4K victory, meaning you wouldn’t have obtained said victory if it was not for your refusal to patrol Gens and chase. It’s boring and it’s high time they took measures to stop this toxic behavior once and for all.
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This is literally a killer buff but killers rather take any and all opportunity to complain than to see that. Facecamping will just result in you being able to tunnel them extremely quickly now that the survivor can self unhook instead of waiting 2 minutes for them to die on hook.
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