When do killers get basekit anti-gen rush?

That's my point, this game is balanced around that old idea of what the game was, effectively a game of hide and seek that turned into a short game of tag. But people realized that the hide and seek aspect wasn't nearly as effective as the "tag" aspect, and the game morphed. But the balance of the game is still such that the game isn't balanced properly at a high level, because low level low skill survivors are playing by these "old" "rules" because it is naturally what you want to do.

And at a low level, this game also has its problems, but mostly around experience for the survivors. Low skill survivors don't know how to deal with tunneling and camping which is so prevalent in lower levels, mostly because it is so effective. And the devs are already addressing the camping aspect, and the tunneling aspect is already solvable through many perks and to an extend the basekit BT.

Or a trade, no bloodlust and theres a negativie debuff in play until first or second gen pops.

How often, realistically, does one get matched with these SWF kill squads? Unless you're high MMR, you're about as likely to get that kind of match as killer as survivors are to get matched against a 4,000 hour Nurse/Blight main who can 4k within a couple minutes of the match starting.

It happens, sure, but not nearly as often as people like to pretend. The problem with the genrush discussion is that no-one wants to admit that simply playing the game normally and doing your objective as a survivor is not genrushing.

Genrushing would be dedicating a build to completing gens as fast as possible, in order to maximise efficiency. That means perks like Hyperfocus w/Stake Out, Prove Thyself, Overzealous, etc. That means Commodius Toolbox with BNP.

When youre so good at Killer people think youre a Survivor main.

I would rather nerf the things that enable genrush strategies instead of buff killers to compensate for genrush strategies.

I think you just tipped your hand a bit and showed us your MMR. Sure, those are valid reasons to do it, but i'm talking about in the general sense. Watch a pro tournament game and tell me how many survivors are running inner healing.

A duo using callouts over Discord just gives them access to information they'd otherwise lack, not that it matters much anymore with the HUD which tells you what each survivor is doing. A duo swf on comms stomping you would accomplish the same result without comms.

They aren't getting access to 50+ perks for free. What characterises a death squad is how well they know each map, how well they run each tile, what perks they brought, what items they brought, how well they're relaying information to each other, how well they're coordinating their plays.

There's a lot that goes into the characteristics of a death squad; and while all death squads are swf, not all swf are death squads.

Either you're trolling or never played a killer. Good luck wasting time to kick gens for that awesome 2.5%.

Survivors explicitely do want killer to change target before theyre dead. They also want to explicitely have 2 hooks each before the killer goes for their first kill.

I think you misunderstood me, or i didnt say it. I dont care if survivors get a anti-genrush mechanic nor am i expecting them to. I think theyre hypocrites for trying to enforce rules on killers they'd call ridiculous if someone proposed zhem for survivors.

Just start treating both roles equally.

The thing is, there are not 2 roles to tread equally, there are 3 roles, and you cant.

I really dont think you can balance around killer, solo survivor and swf in one and the same system.

I think swf and solo should be seperated and each balanced differently, so both sides get a fair shot in each match.

At the moment, killers have a hard time against 3+swf but easy matches against solos and 2swf. So changing the killer balance to one side (either with killer buffs or survivor nerfs) increases the gap to the other side.

And i think thats why a lot of those discussions are around, because killer seem to argue about swf all the time, while the one arguing about killers are mostly solos.

Also, yes, survivors dont want to be tunneled, but you are the one that compared gens to hooks.

-"How often, realistically, does one get matched with these SWF kill squads? Unless you're high MMR..."

Once is enough to make many people turn off the game instantly for the rest of the night.

-"the forum is in tears because now you actually have to go pressure the gens you're complaining are being rushed"

The problem is when you see players with 7000-10000 hours who get absolutely rushed when they go from chase to chase to chase playing very efficiently.

If the professional players have problems then how is average joe noob killer going to fare? There's a reason nobody wants to play killer : the game is less fun than it used to be for the role.

-"Not every team is a hit squad"

You're right and you're wrong. Most people who are playing DBD in a SWF who have thousands of hours play massively better in SWF. What does playing in a SWF "cost"; in other words what do you "lose?" You lose nothing. What does the killer gain? The survivors play better with voice coms, have more coordination and the killer gets a more frustrating game where they are likely to get fewer points.

Why doesn't the killer get +2 perks when they play against SWF? When I talk in a SWF I'm getting the value of at least 12 info perks. That's on the level of cheating. So then why doesnt the killer get +4 perks?

I would never dodge a SWF if I got 4 bonus perks of my choice that only activate in case of SWF. You could do the same for solo survivors but only give them info perks ( rookie spirit, bond, kindred, alert, etc).

I define these types of players that use clock callouts as what i'm talking about. And yeah, you do get around 50 perks for free using discord. Take a look at the survivor perks again, and which ones just give you information or communicate information to your teammates. And discord gives you that perk for free. Its hard to quantify to be honest because discord actually gives you MORE than any perk could do. It is insane how much this game was designed around survivors lacking information, and how much discord completely breaks that.

Like i said though, you can't KNOW its going to be a hit squad. So you HAVE to bring your best stuff, and play your absolute best, and scummy as possible and tunnel/proxy camp at the right times. Because if you don't do that from the get go, and they turn out to be a hit squad, you lost. This is why they need to be telling us when we are playing against SWF.

But that makes the game ######### for those solo survivors just trying to chill. That is my point, if it showed you before the match, you would KNOW that you are going to have a chill game, vs a not chill game, and lets you plan accordingly. Killer players aren't all scumbags who want to play mean from the get go. Sure, some are, but it is not the majority.

There's a distinction between hearing it a million times and hearing it from a million people.

Higher MMR has higher kill rates.

I understand it perfectly well. I understand it to be the excuses of a small but very vocal group of killer mains who just don't want to lose, ever. Folks that continue to insist that we should 'use the carrot, not the stick!', even when that has been tried and tested and found to not work at all, in the slightest.

We've got massive kill streaks all over the place, perfectly healthy kill rates, healthy tournaments, and still the same handful of people will insist, incessantly, that the game is literally, objectively and even mathematically unplayable.

I am over the excuses.

Camping, tunnelling and slugging need the nerfbat. It's the only way they can be phased out.

If you lose multiple gens in the first chase then it’s your fault for chasing the looper. Leave that survivor and chase the other 3.