This kind of slugging shouldn't be possible
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Okay give base deerstalker so u wont go too far and i can hook you
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Killers should only be able to play in the narrowly prescribed way that survivors like me demand! No agency, no variety, no strategy!
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You surely can hook at least 2 survivors doing a sabo squad, and chase the others who recovered. If you think you are not winning the game here then I have bad news for you
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Once the survivor is able to pick themselves up, sure
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I find it funny that we still need to have discussions about things that are incredibly unenjoyable, and people still feel the need to debate them as if finding a solution isn't the best way forward.
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First match of the day and this happens. The killer was the skull merchant who was using drones on downed survivors. They also refused to hook the first survivor that was downed. I wondered after about 30 seconds why the killer had not picked them up yet and sure enough they were simply using them as bait. When the killer got 3 survivors down they waited awhile and then decided to hook one and only one survivor. I tried going in to pick the other 2 up but it just ended up with the killer tunneling them down. Just that easily the skull merchant was able to abuse slugging and end the match quickly leaving us with absolutely no option to effectively deal with this situation.
This is wrong in every way. This is not fair at all. More killers are abusing slugging because they know it benefits them the most to play this way. This situation should not even be possible. If the killer does not hook a survivor shortly after downing them it should not play in their favor.
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Pointing out a problem thats been abused for years in the game isn't survivors demanding killers only play in a "narrowly prescribed" way. You're making it sound like if you can't do this as the killer then you have little to no other options to play and win. This is not true at all. Excessive slugging is not good for this game and survivor players are sick of it.
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I just never can figure out the point of it. The thrill of who gets the hatch first is always my fav as killer. I dont have time for that 4k slug sheesh.
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Survivor players should probably play better so they don’t all go down at the same time then!
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So naturally, basekit noed when a swf genrushes a killer right? Right?
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Like, this story is “the killer used a downed survivor as bait, and then we took the bait, and then the killer won.” You’re saying it’s unfair that the killer won after the survivors hugely misplayed the scenario! How is that the killer playing unfair?
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i don't slug for the 4k because it take to damn long. The last survivor always go into hiding and honestly i couldn't be bother to look for them
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I'm guessing you didn't read my OP or really look at the screenshot I posted above. Its one thing for survivors to be punished for their mistakes, but leaving 3 people on the ground just so you can guarantee you get the 4k is abusing slugging. In the screenshot I posted above you can see that 2 of the 3 survivors on the ground are recovered and the third is almost there. This should never be possible. These survivors should be able to pick themselves up after being on the ground for that long. All of this happened because the killer refused to hook the survivors which is their primary objective. Killers who refuse to hook survivors in a timely manner should be punished for it. There is no positive argument for this.
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Imagine if those generators could do themselves simply by survivors doing nothing after working on them for a moment. But were supposed to be Ok with the killer winning by leaving everyone on the ground and ignoring the hooks. Maybe its not about survivors needing to play better as much as its about killers playing without abusing slugging. The killer and survivor power difference in this game is too wide.
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LOL, killer downed survivors, which is equivalent of generators, what are you talking about.
And yeah I still agree, if everyone is downed killers should get 12 hooks and instantly win, so no one has to waste time.
That's purely your subjective opinion and game isn't made like that at all.
But alas BHVR gonna hear for those kind of things, sadge.
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In the screenshot I posted above you can see that 2 of the 3 survivors on the ground are recovered and the third is almost there. This should never be possible.
I disagree.
All of this happened because the killer refused to hook the survivors which is their primary objective.
No, killing survivors is the primary objective. Hooking them is often the quickest, best way to do this, but it's not the only way.
Look, if you want to argue that killers leaving survivors slugged isn't fun, I'm totally in agreement. It's boring. But it is sometimes a good strategy that will lead to victory if survivors screw up (see your own example above). If your entire team is getting slugged, that's not a game design problem or killers playing unfairly, that's your team screwing up.
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why should it not be possible? you and your team made misplay and killer capitalized. killer objective is to kill. downing all remaining survivors simultaneously is killer winning and you losing. Killer being punished for downing survivor which is their objective is short-sighted. I do not think many killer would agree that they should be punished for doing their objective.
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If team A is teabagging at the exit gates, it's not team A that's getting slugged out, is it?
It really is team C taking the heat for it.
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It absolutely is the killer playing unfairly. Also there is a difference between survivors screwing up and the killer abusing a mechanic in the game for their own advantage. The situation in the screenshot above had no remedy. Once the killer saw another survivor in range of the first downed one it was over. 2 survivors are not going to knock out 5 gens in time and my team realized that. If the new norm is going to be slug 1 and bait another then no one is going to put up with that for very long.
And yes, slugging isn't fun which is why I think it shouldn't be a part of the game anymore. It completely ruins the survivor experience and gives the killer a massive unfair advantage. It takes survivors too long to recover from situations in this game. Having that on top of having to deal with constant slugging just makes the game a miserable experience.
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I'm not saying punish killers for downing survivors. I'm saying punish killers who leave survivors on the ground for long periods of time. You do realize if every match was only killers going around downing survivors and ignoring hooks altogether that this game would not be fun to play as survivor.
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But it's fun for the killer.
You see, until you make a valid argument other than "this is not fun for me" this topic will never end. Fun is a subjective matter, what is fun or unfun FOR you doesn't apply to everyone.
it's the same thing as the "survivor rulebook", someone invented this idiocy and someone expects it to be respected otherwise "you0re playing unfair". And who says it? Why should the killer follow a made up thing created only because people sucks so bad at this game they need to an excuse to justify their low skill ?
You don't like to be slugged ? There's already the counterplay, it's called "learn how to loop"
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The valid argument here is that a game should be fun for all involved, particularly when it requires multiple willing participants/opponents to take place.
If a game can't be fun for both sides, it might as well be single-player.
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Fine, then remove all the pallets and vault in the game because for the killer chasing someone around a pallet or shack is not fun.
Are you ok with this change right ? I mean, you just said the game should be fun for both side no matter what so...
It's BHVR that should make the game enjoyable for both side, it's not one side responsability to make the game enjoyable for the other side
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I have bad news for you too. If you think that an organized sabo squad is easy to face just by "hooking 2 survs" well you probably never faced a strong sabo squad. At least, if there aren't any unbreakable or max 1 is easy, with 4 unbreakable is a living hell if they know how to play. I don't except you to understand, my only error in that match was that I didn't remember who used unbreakable since they had all the same outfit
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It's BHVR that should make the game enjoyable for both side, it's not one side responsability to make the game enjoyable for the other side
Now you get it. This is exactly OP's point.
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No it's not OP's point. Op blame people who are doing that, trying to throw shame on people doing it and refuse to acknowledge this as a valid tactic and, require killers to care about OP fun. Is the same thing as the "survivor rulebook" or the "tunneling problem", blame others for a valid tactics bringin the only argunent that is "not fun for me" and completly disregards the other side point of view.
As i said, for me, chase a survivor for 2 minutes is not fun, shall i do expect bhvr change this to make it easier ?Shall i blame people who run aways instead of receive the hit ? No, i should learn how to play better or, change game.
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Hard to do that when survivors refuse to give killers anything to actually help the reasons why they might be slugging, or even acknowledge those reasons to begin with, and are tunnel versioned on getting their way with no compromises.
They don't want solutions for both sides, they want the killers to suffer and lose because they don't play how they want them to regardless of why they are doing it.
Anything to try and balance things out for the killer side gets shot down immediately and aggressively.
Can't even get it through to them that currently the killers goal is not hooks, but kills; nor that under these rules that slugging is a valid (although unfun) tactic.
How are we going to talk about changing the system when they don't even care to understand or acknowledge the current one? They are dead set on "no the killer must be in the wrong, they need to be punished".
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The title of this thread is "this kind of slugging shouldn't be possible." In other words, "developers, do something about this."
The body of their post goes on to state "this is why we need basekit abilities to deal with these situations."
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. OP is calling on BHVR to do something about this.
Forgive me for not reading all of OP's replies in this 5-page discussion, but if they later went on to scrutinize players for this behavior, those are supplementary opinions which exist only as commentary, and are not to be confused with OP's intentions here.
This is a gross overgeneralization of the community, that is neither constructive nor cooperative.
For starters, this is hypocrisy. You are guilty of the very complaint you lob against "survivors." My comment is completely neutral--I've merely observed that this community continues to argue about features that are notoriously unejoyable for at least one side--yet you've leapt off of it like a springboard designed to dunk on "survivors."
What's up with that?
Why are you making this out to be a partisan issue?
Do you really think someone will want to have a discussion with you if you're constantly working under the pretense that someone who disagrees with you must then also hold opinions A, B, C, and D?
Do you not see how destructive that is?
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Sorry let me be more specific.
It's not all survivors, just most of the ones defending that side on this thread, including OP. I work under the pretense that someone is reasonable until they prove otherwise. They proved otherwise imo.
OP was adamant about specifically punishing killers regardless of what opinions, suggestions, solutions, ect. were brought up to them. Not changing things so its not necessary, not helping killers in situations where they realistically need to, not also gettign rid of the risk factors that make slugging the better choice. No, specifically and only punishing killers. It's clearly spiteful at least in some degree or they are heavily survivor biased (name checks out).
They are still holding this "hooks are the main objective" despite multiple others expressing its not with support from the MMR, the games code, and the devs themselves.
I told them what the objective is, and what you want it changed to are 2 different things, they clearly didn't listen given their more recent post. For what its worth I do think it should be changed to hooks, but that's not what it currently is.
I said what is currently a valid tactic and what you don't like and want it changed to are 2 different things. Didn't care.
Me: "Wanting it changed and not liking it is fine, saying people aren't allowed to play that way (currently) is different and not true."
To them, slugging makes you a horrible person and its morally wrong to do because survivors don't like it. No if ands or buts, it's not a way to win the game, it's abuse.
Hook dead zone? Survivors ran themselves to the corner? "Doesn't matter let them wiggle out". Want to avoid the 4% or hatch? "No you need to risk it". Skip the wait and just kill the survivors instantly? "I know I said that the time spent on the ground was too long and thus a problem, but that gives the killer a win so no". (paraphrasing here)
People have been bringing up issues and why killers slug and everything has been shot down.
If you didn't read most of OP's post you really shouldn't be assuming they weren't acting this or that way or hold this or that opinion when they expressed those in their other comments. Same for mine.
Here I'll quote their supposed "solution" after this entire thread.
OP: "I think if a killer slugs the entire team and leaves them all on the ground for more than a minute then the entity kills the killer and the survivor team wins."
That sounds wild to me, especially when they have not considered giving killers anything to help against survivors who will easily abuse it.
I'm neutral, I want the game to be better for both sides, I see this as a problem and have suggested ways to fix it and tried to have a discussion in this thread, along with many others. They're not being receptive.
It's not a partisan issue, I specifically said they're not receptive to the other side when approached on ways to fix it for both sides.
Post edited by MrPenguin on5 -
It sounds like I walked into a discussion that has shifted away from, or was intentionally misleading about, it's original message. I apologize for taking you as one to paint others with a broad brush.
I followed the discussion when it was originally created, weeks ago, and did not recall the conversation devolving into the absurdity you describe.
To OP's credit, they spent 2 full pages trying to keep respondants on-topic, as this discussion became increasingly inundated with whataboutism from people who disagree with OP on the basis of "your side isn't allowed to get nice things unless my side gets nice things."
It looks like once you prodded OP on their thesis, you found some skeletons hiding in the closet. ...or just someone who is inexperienced with game design/theory. Either way, you're both advocating for something to be done, and I find it comical that such conversations are hindered by those who cry "what about me?"
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Let me preface this by saying I hate slugging, and I will only slug for 4K if I can see the last survivor when I down the third, and even then only if I am making my last push to Iri 1 and need the pips. I am not a fan of slugging as a strategy.
I think basekit unbreakable and basekit deerstalker is a decent solution.
That said, all four survs being on the ground at once is the product of one of two conditions:
- The killer is waaaaay better than the survs.
- The survs played really poorly.
Leaving them down is a killer choice (and lame one), but in a situation where there is a relatively even match and the survs play even decently it's extremely unlikely that all four end up on the ground at once.
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Tbf what I wrote previously does look that way without context and I could have been a little more specific, but thank you for being forthcoming.
I agree, it is hard to talk about these things for the reasons you mentioned.
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Nah, skill issue
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Sure, why not?
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This is why I can't convince my friends to play this game again. The killer decided to hook 2 and left me and the other survivor to bleed out. For what reason you might ask? For some kind of tactical advantage to "win" the match? No. They did this to be toxic.
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you know what would help this situation? Killer finisher Mori. It would avoid situations where the killer is purposely toxic.
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I prefer the killer not be rewarded for playing this way.
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Well one positive thing i can say is you are playing the best survivor in the game. Shes so cute😭
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I gotta say it was funny reading the same people (defending everything killer related) defending bleeding people out as valid. Either unbreakable base when only 2 survivors are left our a bleedout option when being left on ground for a long time.
I really got to see all the common tru3 fan replies: “just bring said perk”, “just loop better”, “why should your fun be more more important to my fun”, the “survivor rule book”💀
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If the killer has all four survivors on the ground, then they out-played all four on chase and managed to keep them from reviving one another.
Sounds like they played far better than the survivors in this case, no?
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Apparently if all survivors go down it’s through no fault of their own, they have no obligation to do anything to help each other or run away or hide and should just win by default.
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At no point in this entire conversation has it ever been mentioned or implied that survivors should "win by default" for all of them being downed. You're taking the point of the subject and making extreme arguments and opinions about it.
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I hope you understand that if every killer decided to ignore the hooks entirely this game would be the most miserable, unfun and boring experience for survivor players imaginable. Killers would camp the first downed survivor forcing the rest of the team to let them bleed out. The entire game would turn into nothing but altruism and there would be little to no time at all to work on gens.
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Wouldn't that be more punishable by focusing on gens than regular camping?
2 hook stats with 60 seconds each, punishable by gen rushing.
Bleed out with double the time, suddenly not punishable with gen rush?
And the slug can even lure the killer into q disadvantageous position by crawling.
(Of course it would be twice as boring for the slugged survivor than the comparatively hooked)
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Are you intentionally not understanding what im saying?
90% of all survivors stand and tbag at the exit gate, and will only run out of the killer comes to push them out or if the time is up...
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I only have one survivor per 10 matches that tbag or spam vaulting. Im sorry you live in a region full of BM players.
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I don't think you yourself understand what you're saying. You are not bleed-out slugging the same folks that tbag at the exit gate. because the folks that are tbagging at the exit gate will just leave if you knock them down.
Conversely, if you are bleedout slugging someone, they're not at the exit gates teabagging. There is no overlap between these two because there cannot be.
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You didnt understand it, even when you claim you did, its clear from that reply.
I already explained this to you like 2 or 3 times, read it again. Im not going to repeat my self over and over.
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