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I am Worried About Upcoming End Game Mori
So now we learned base-kit UB is cancelled and that's good. But they are still working on end game mori mechanic.
Which means if all survivors are on ground or hooked, game will automatically finish. Last downed survivor will be mori'd and everyone will die.
But this will be buff for slugging, why we are making unfun strategies even stronger? And do i need to mention this strategy is already hurts solo survivors more than swfs.
And also this strategy will make comeback impossible as well (Deliverance, lucky escapes, wiggle out etc.).
And you will be forced to use UB in every game for counter this unhealthy possible mechanic.
I don't know why we really need system like this? Why it is not cancelling for good? We don't want end game mori, we don't want base-kit UB. Just fix your core issues, do not create new issues!
Comments
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Is this still a thing? I haven't heard about this going live from anywhere recently. I assumed they scrapped it since its a terrible ide.
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I still wonder why they make this when the obvious solution is makin Cypress Mori basekit.
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They just said base-kit UB idea is cancelled but mori system is still on work which is terrible idea.
I think this is better idea actually. This mori system we saw on PTB was just terrible, i don't wanna see it in live servers.
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Adding endgame mori without basekit unbreakable is utterly insane. The whole reason they were looking at the mori rework was to give killers an advantage against basekit UB. If they add this mori thing then it will encourage killers to slug even more for a quick win.
I've disliked the concept ever since they mentioned it, i like pulling the odd mori as killer, and I want to do it on my terms. Plus when I decide to spare survs it often involves downing them, going to a hook, shaking my head and allowing them to struggle out. Mori rework would stop me doing that. Basekit cypress is a much better idea.
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This. If end game mori comes into play, and most matches will turn into a sweaty slug fest, that'll be the day I just stop having fun and move onto something else. I already really really dislike when killers slug for 4K.
I feel bad for the slugged person and I have to keep well hidden just to deny that type of toxic game play. Since I often run hatch perk I usually find it and deny them that 4K they're so thirsty for.
If they get 4K by hooking or finding hatch first, fine. But this is just going to encourage slugging and not a good direction to go to.
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It likely wouldn't be the same conditions as before. The basekit Unbreakable was required because of the mori system, if it's no longer required, then it's a different system.
It should be based on a Cypress Mori, have the finisher mori play (ideally as an option not automatically) when the last remaining survivor is downed, not when there are multiple survivors alive and on the ground.
You could even have it only available when the survivor is downed as the last survivor. By which I mean, it's not available if the down occurs when there's still 2 survivors in the game, which would explicitly prevent 'slugging for the 4K' being compatible with it.
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Im wondering if the mori rework is their way of trying to deal with things like letting everyone bleed out instead of ending the game, etc. If thats the case, I dont feel our concerns matter, as they will be ignored due to 'reasons'.
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The endgame mori system feels less like a buff to slugging and more like a way to prevent a person from dragging a match out by downing everyone then refusing to hook them.
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This.
The reason why they make this is most likely because they want people to experience Mori-Animations. (I personally dont care about Moris at all. I watch them one time, think "huh. neat." and than I dont even pay attention anymore when I get morid)
Because since Moris are not OP anymore, almost nobody is using them. But they create those animations and want people to experience it, what I totally get. But it would be enough to make the Cypress Mori basekit and it does not need anything more.
All their work on the Finisher Mori (and all around it) is just a huge waste of time nobody asked for with a far easier solution for their intention.
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I'm not sure why this is a mutually exclusive issue.
'All their work' on the finisher mori can simply be activated by the same conditions as the Cypress Mori (maybe with the additional stipulation I mentioned above), and we get the best of both worlds.
This would still be 'the finisher mori system'. So the fact that 'they're still working on the finisher mori system' shouldn't be a doomsday prophecy.
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I feel like the devs need to clarify this. The person asking the question didn't mention the Finisher Mori. They were asking about Unbreakable basekit in general, since there's alot of complaints about slugging. The dev answered no to the question, then asked if he/she was referring to the Finisher Mori and said they're still making changes. Basekit UB on it's own would be an obvious no, but as part of the Mori it'd be nice to get a clear answer.
I can't see the Finisher Mori working without survivors being able to pick themselves up. It promotes slugging over hooking and will drive players away.
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If they bring it without base-kit UB, i won't surprise. They ignored community before as well, so this won't be first time if they do this again.
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How often do you see 4slug ?
this is incredibly hard to do + survivors have to play really bad
+ if the survivors have 1 perk out of 16 is unb, then 4slug will immediately reset to zero
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This ruins all the awesome comebacks with Deli and Unbreakable. 😐️
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bro 4 slug happens once in a billion games against very bad players
I am sure that even if this function is introduced right now, for several months no one will know that it works
and no it doesn't ruin the comebacks because you can still get up and pick up all the survivors
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It's not happen that much because people are not using slugging builds so much. But yet, i am seeing sometimes.
If this system comes to live without base-kit UB, people will abuse the system. So big no for this. We don't need base-kit UB or finishing mori. Unhealthy designs.
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It doesn't make slugging any more viable than it already is, it will SLIGHTLY help them but not a meaningful amount of buffs, and it actually HELPS those who being slugged as killers can't waste survivor's time by leaving them on ground.
So yeah, this wouldn't be problematic, at all, and realistically speaking people WILL NOT use comeback perks anyway so that's hardly a problem either, and even if they take it they can almost always use those BEFORE killers manages to slug four.
I think people should stop being so ridiculous and pretend like this is a big problem.
There is literally no way to "abuse" this mechanics in any way, because all it does is pretty much ending already concluded matches faster.
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What part of "working on it" do people not understand?
It's not going to come back in the same form it was shown in that previous PTB. If it was, they wouldn't have to 'work on it'. Yet you're all still doomsaying about the same system being implemented.
Basekit Unbreakable was scrapped due to community feedback. That same community feedback is what also decried the finisher mori system and caused them to go back to the drawing board with it. That same community feedback shouted that "basekit Cypress Mori" would be the best way to implement it.
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The fact they're still working on it means they have some idea to fix it, i suppose. Perhaps the game checks if the survivors have some means of revive, and if not, end game
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Alright let me clarify, the 4 is rare yes but it does happen and the most common thing am sure people are talking about is the slugging for the 4k in terms of the last 2 survivors remaining, which is very very common in like 90% of games, killers just have to crave for their 4k and its disgustingly annoying. The 4 slug is usually done by very sweaty nurses/spirits/twins/sadakos(using condemn) or even wraiths do to the massive healing nerfs and their kit can cause them to do so.
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Basekit unbreakable would be fine when it's last 2 survivors only alive it would encourage killer not to slug for 4K. It's still pretty common. But if all 4 get slugged that on survivor team and they don't need second chance.
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Oh yeah, let's add mechanic will remove value from UB, DS, Delivarance and other second chance perks.
Let's add mechanic which will make UB needed and you can use it only for one time.
Let's remove base-kit UB because this was the only problematic part.
Let's remove hatch chance for the last survivor.
Killer no longer will worry about out from hooks because no needed!
Let's add everything else, it's not gonna be problem because it is no longer affect killers. So it should be okay.
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Can I ask you to be more... calm, I guess? and talk with something actually meaningful?
Basekit mori DID NOT remove any value from UB, DS, Deliverance and whatever second chances after all, and basekit mori DID NOT made UB needed in any way, and then you don't have hatch chance even on live server, and there was no time killer had to worry about hooks because they always had the capability to bleedout.
Everything you've said there is literally just objectively wrong, and doesn't makes sense in any way.
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People complain about all being left slugged to bleed out for ages, I guess this is their way of 'fixing' that.
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I am calm, thanks i guess?
All you are saying this mechanic is not removing anything but it does.
You are the last man standing and you have UB + DS (active), you down and you all are dead.
You have active Delivarance but you can't use it because you are the last man standing. You down and everyone are dead.
Actually why i am trying to explain. Whatever i tell, you will just decline. So guess what, i should do like how you do:
You are just wrong, this mechanic will destroy survivor gameplay. Everything you said is just wrong.
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I don’t really think it would move the kill rate by any meaningful amount, if we had a finisher mori without basekit UB. The vast majority of the games where all four survivors are slugged at the same time, is a win for the killer if they just left everyone to bleed out on the ground.
The biggest counter argument, of “whatabout unbreakable”, I think is rare. We basically need someone to have unbreakable, but not have a chance to use it before the last survivor is knocked to the ground. Yes, this can happen, but the number of games where the finisher mori would save time, would greatly outweigh the number of games where the survivors could have somehow escaped after all the survivors were slugged.
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All those situations are pretty much extremely niche, basically 3/4 of times you WILL get values of all those perks.
And killers can always deny hook/wiggle related perks just by NOT picking them up at all, so that's moot too.
On top of it, if you utilize those things only at last man standing, you will lose anyway because game is in already catastrophic state.
If you seriously believe this mechanics somehow "destroys" survivor gameplay, I suppose no words can help you understand what it actually does.
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They said the Finisher Mori is still being worked on with everyone's feedback being taken into account and the one showed was just a prototype. Since the basekit UB is no longer a thing I think it's safe to say that the Mori won't function like the old system.
This also probably isn't going to come out for a long time. There's no need to worry about it right now.
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Just to clarify something here, there's no information available publicly yet on how this feature will be brough to the game. Making assumptions based on an early prototype test, which we were very clear was an early test for feedback, isn't helpful. You are assuming that slugging will be part of the feature, but there is no confirmation from us about that.
It's probably better to wait until we are ready to discuss this in more detail before panicking or assuming the worse!
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Nah, i just acted like you. Like how you replied me. I don't think it will destroy survivor gameplay but it will buff very boring and annoying strategy. And it's very unhealthy.
There is better ways to add mori to killer base-kit. This is not the way. They should not buff slugging.
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Thank you for making things clear. After we heard base-kit UB cancelled, i just worried because mori system did not mentioned.
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u don't verse nurse a lot do you
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It's probably better to wait until we are ready to discuss this in more detail before panicking or assuming the worse!
Mandy I don't think you know how the forums work.😉
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Considering how low her kill rate is, even if you verse half of them are potatoes anyway.
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Depends on your mmr
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hey I'm ever the optimist here lol.
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Thank you
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
You are thinking about it as the now. This is the first step to them creating cosmetic moris they can sell in the shop. If seeing a mori becomes a much more regular thing, and is seen as a "cool finishing move" that ends the game, they become more impactful, and happen more often, because people typically want to burn bloodpoint offerings.
Once that happens, they can start (if they haven't already) working on a system to have different mori animations you can equip, and they can start selling them in the cash shop.
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because certain killer are purposely slugging survivors when they have won and dragging out the match. that is why they're implementing it. its not buff to slugging. it is just making the game end faster and preventing toxic behaviour. Its little bit like flashlight change where survivor would abusively spam flashlight clicking. its that type of update.
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This is literally all they need to do. It's the easiest solution and I do feel they're over-analysing a really simple solution.
Make a "Cypress Mori" basekit, then with the offerings make it so the Cypress can kill 1 extra survivor, ivory kills 2 extra survivors and ebony remains as is.
Please BHVR, please just stop over-thinking this.
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I don't like the idea of moris being worked into the match without the use of an offering or perk.
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The finisher Mori they tested on the PTB absolutely, 100% encouraged slugging. There were videos, while rare or requiring certain killers to pull off, where the killer could manage to slug all 4 survivors within the first couple minutes and simply end the game with 0 hooks at 5 gens immediately.
No other method in the game would have been faster at closing out matches if that has gone live, so every game would've been a ######### fest whack-a-mole ######### show.
Even in it's 'purest' form with only 2 survivors remaining, killers would've just continued to slug for the 4k and saved on hooks while still denying hatch.
So the answer to your question is maybe. If they implemented something like the cypress Mori it *might* discourage slugging for the 4k. But most likely killers would just continue to slug to deny hatch, then hook the 3rd and Mori the last.
It all depends on what they have in mind for the reworked finisher system, but I doubt it will reduce slugging for the 4k. The only thing that will do that is a hatch rework
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I’m sure they aren’t just going to throw it in there without a lot of testing first. Endless unbreakable was WAY more op than people give it credit for. There is a survivor strategy with Boil Over to go down on top of larger buildings and forcing killers to fall to a hook. Effectively allowing them to break free. Endless unbreakable would’ve made that so much more over powered since the only real way to deal with it is to bleed them out.
Personally they should just allow the Killer to Mori the last survivor of hatch is closed. EGC time.
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I consider that bad survivor play. getting 4 man slugged into 1 hook is skill-level problem. that should never occur if both sides are equally skilled.
no every game would've been a ######### fest whack-a-mole ######### show.
I disagree. The only advantage that the system gave to killers was that it preventing using pick-up perks from triggering if the final survivor went down before being picked-up but this is 90% in survivor's control. unbreakable has almost little to no counter-play. The system would greatly benefit survivor especially at high-level where survivors are more experienced at looping and a lot more resilient to any slugging strategy working.
Even in it's 'purest' form with only 2 survivors remaining, killers would've just continued to slug for the 4k and saved on hooks while still denying hatch.
Yes that happens already. I am not sure how finisher mori changes this dynamic. Killer perform the finisher mori manually. If the survivor purposely hides when they are in dying state, they're just prolonging the game for 4 minutes. The finisher Mori would speed-up the game ending so the killer does not have to manually hook people and look for people on floor when they have already won.
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Nothing wrong with that view of yours, but just out of curiosity, do you "just leave" when its three of you and one on the hook, to have the killer keep their 1K, or do you "viciously run back and swarm the hook, thirsting for that 4E"? Its not a perfect fold, but the best equivalent there is.
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Devs added base-kit UB for counter this new mechanic. So telling this is not giving any advantage to killer is just so wrong. Looks like devs are not agree with you.
Base-kit UB cancelled and they are probably looking different way to add this mechanic. Without buffing slugging.
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i said it gives an advantage in the sense that it denies pick-up effects but whether you down entire team or not is entirely based off survivor's looping skill. 45 second to down 4 survivors consecutively is unbelievably poor survivor gameplay.
Honestly, I think slugging is often a explicit way for survivor mains to often criticize and gaslight killers that the game is killer sided. I remember when Oni first came out on PTB day 1, you would get survivor mains gaslighting the killers saying look, Oni is charging at super fast speed and downing survivors left, right and center. Oni is downing 2-3 survivors per power. OP KILLER!
The same thing could be said about Sadako Condemn. WOW killer is slugging everyone and instant mori killing everyone. plz nerf condemn strats. It's like no man. Maybe try to learn how to play against the killer power?
No other method in the game would have been faster at closing out matches if that has gone live, so every game would've been a ######### fest whack-a-mole ######### show.
your comment right here further proves my point on gas lighting killers. I am sure this comes from watching certain content creators showing how you can slug 4 people with certain killer builds. For example LilithOmen shows how you can do this on blight running alchemist ring+Iri tag, Coconut shows this with huntress and Supaalf used to show this with Nurse running Starstruck Nurse with green recharge and infectious fright. I am sure your comment is referring to these players speed-running teams in the PTB.
Apart from nurse that got nerfed for doing this, downing all 4 survivors simultaneously when no one has unbreakable would for the most part lead to 4k with or without mori. 4% on unhooks rarely occurs and when it does occur, the killer could just camp the unhook but once again, your prolonging the loss and enforcing the killer to bleed the survivor out for 4 minutes. Finisher mori skips boring end-game part so player can move on to the next game.
I still stand by that slugging is only oppressive when there is large skill difference between killer and survivor. 4 man slugging is only effective for regular killers when it is like bronze-silver level survivor vs diamond killer. The survivor has to misplay very badly on the chase-level and the tactical level for this to be effective. its arguably not really suppose to be effective in my opinion but I do think survivor should feel threatening when going down in general though.
Base-kit UB cancelled and they are probably looking different way to add this mechanic. Without buffing slugging.
I have no clue. they'll probably just add cypress mori at the end of the match or something very basic.
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It's technically not an endgame mori unless all 5 gens are done. I feel like the easiest solution that I can come up with is to have it only come into play with the added prerequisite of either the 5 gens being done or hatch being closed and THEN downing the last survivor.
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That's just objectively wrong, game will end for 99% of times even on live server if killer somehow manages to slug all four of survs.
It doesn't encourage anything, just makes game faster and that's literally all the things it does.
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So why devs added base-kit UB for counter this mechanic? Looks like they are not agree with you because they especially mentioned they don't wanna buff slugging.
I think you should stop calling people wrong while devs were so clear on that, they do not wanna make slugging more viable. Now they just saw base-kit UB is problematic and they most likely changed their plans. Both of system cancelled and they will probably come something different.
We just have wait to see what's their plans
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