Windows of Opportunity - OP?
Apparently WoO is now an overpowered perk because it has the highest usage rate. My question to you, the community (admittedly a small part of the community), is whether or not the perk itself is a problem or if it's maps that allow strong loops to be chained together that is the problem?
Due to its usage rate, WoO is being likened to pre-nerf DH and DS which were must-pick perks due to how you could use DH to extend chases and DS to get a free escape in EGC. These two perks dominated the charts in terms of usage rate.
Comments
-
Perk is fine
Maps are not fine
38 -
Maps wouldn't be as bad if WoO didn't give you Google Maps to chain every remaining resource perfectly. The game isn't designed for every chase to be run optimally.
The perk needs it's cooldown back or some other limitation. I'd much prefer that to filling maps with garbage tiles and deadzones.
5 -
No. Fix maps instead of nerfing a perk thats already fine. Windows wasnt even used when it had the cool down
19 -
"Fix maps" meaning what? What's your idea of a "balanced" map?
Windows was always strong and provided the same information it does now. You just had to at least slightly use your brain to remember the information it gave between cooldowns.
Having more resources on maps without a GPS system to optimally run them is a much better solution then "Oh my gen is next to a rock and 2 trees so guess I'll die"
2 -
A balanced map is something like dead dawg or some of the autoheaven maps. Nerfing windows does nothing but keeps good players the same and casual have a worse experience. Nerfing windows doesnt do anything to stop good players from destroying killers on garden of joy. Nerf the maps like that and it will be fine.
again windows had a cool down before and it sucked as a perk. No one used it. Even when the maps were even more heavily survivor sides no one used it. Nerfing to crappy perk again does nothing positive. The perk is needed for new players and solo que. Swf already has voice chat and if they are a good swf they dont need the perk anyway
2 -
Here are two killer mains giving their take as well
2 -
I dont See it as a Problem. It could use a small nerf maybe but nothing game changing. Perhaps a cooldown after vaulting or pallet dropping for ten seconds? Nothing to like how DS, DH, COH, HR, Or Eruption were nerfed though.
If they REALLY want to not add a cooldown or update then as a nuclear option they could add an effect onto it that discourages you from constantly running if. I’m not advocating for that however but it’s a thought.
0 -
Much easier to nerf a perk than to change 90% of maps.
2 -
And allowing a Survivor to chain every remaining resource perfectly isn't how you're supposed to chase. WoO is good for in a chase yes, but as a killer you shouldnt stay on a Survivor long enough for that to matter
12 -
The problem is, why nerf it to begin with? What does Windows do, other than show you the auras of map resources? Nothing. It has no other effect, and is completely counterable via blindness add-ons. A good killer also knows how to direct chases away from strong loops.
Strong loops should be weighted to spawn as far away from each other as possible. For example, Shack is a strong loop so it would make sense to have a strong loop spawn on the opposite end of the map to killer shack, so as to prevent chaining the two loops together.
In a match where all players are of average skill, a chase should take no longer than 35 seconds. Anything more, and your chances of getting a 4k as killer drop significantly.
2 -
Ah yes the tiny maps that have guaranteed 3 gens and/or are frequently filled with empty junk tiles and deadzones. That's what I figured you would give as an example. GoJ can be toned down without turning it into hold W to nowhere simulator.
No one used WoO before because old DS, DH,Iron Will, etc., were better choices. WoO started creeping in when those perks were nerfed. Then they gave it a massive unnecessary buff on top.
1 -
"Why nerf it to begin with?"
Because knowing where every map resource is at all times is a massive advantage.
Because as I said before, the game isn't balanced around running optimally every chase.
Because it incentivises braindead hold W chases instead of taking full advantage of whatever tiles are closest to you. Without GPS guiding you to the next resource, you have to weigh the risks of leaving your current tile where you know you have something to work with vs the next tile that could have nothing. You might even have to consider taking a few seconds to check your surrounding tiles instead of immediately slamming the closest gen.
3 -
Having information isn't making chases brain dead. All the information in the world is meaningless if you don't know how to use it.
14 -
WoO is one of these perks, that I love as a survivor and hate as a killer.
It's pretty much a manual on how to play the game as survivor. So it definitely isn't surprising that many players (myself included) run it.
On the other hand, WoO makes even inexperienced survivors pretty hard to catch sometimes. That is mostly because maps are mostly so stacked, that you can delay the killer by pre dropping, pallet camping and Shift + W keying for quite a while.
In my opinion Windows is not the problem but a symptom of it. Map design is really to blame here.
2 -
So, what about the players who already have all that information and don't use the perk? Just because you have the information, doesn't mean you know how to use that information. Even without WoO, you'd still be losing chases to survivors who are confidently able to loop.
As you traverse the map, do you just put your blinders on so you're oblivious to all the map's resources? Of course you don't. Players already have this information, thanks to the wonderful thing we call eyesight.
As killer, you have the inherent advantage of 15% extra movement speed (assuming you're not playing Nurse or a 110% killer) over survivors. You also have the inherent advantage of Bloodlust. When people complain about WoO, it just sounds like a complaint that survivors don't just immediately die when you look at them.
8 -
survivors can hold-w in chases without needing the perk. map knowledge and experience can replace the perk. Garden of Joy map strength is staying the same regardless of the survivor has window of opportunity or not. The perk only shows the problems in the map. from my perpective, the really good aspect of window of opportunity is that it shows what pallets your teammates have used in a match. it kinda replaces one of advantages that 4 man voice SWF get within looping for soloq.
According to Nightlight, 3/10 of top perks that survivor are using are aura-reading type perks. Its slowly starting show that the divide between SWF and Soloq is getting worse. If Adrenaline, Lithe, Sprint burst, Prove thyself, and Resilience were thrown out of meta, the top 3 perks would be Window of opportunity, Kindred and Bond. All 3 of these perk are information perks that try to replace some of the SWF information advantage into soloq.
Is it really healthy that soloq has -1/-2 blank perk slots to just play survivor effectively? In my opinion, it is not. I haphazardly wish that these perk do become ultra popular so BVHR perhaps attempts to put some of these perks base-kit for survivor to shorten the SWF vs Soloq disparity. It would be nice to just talk about it as survivor and killers.
8 -
Balanced perk, especially helpful in soloQ. I personally don't like it bc I feel it dumbs you down a little, since it gives you all the pathing you need.
only issue with it is how you can chain 8 pallets because windows showed you where they are
1 -
I use WoW because visibility on some maps sucks, and even more against some killers (Nightfall, deep wound...).
It's also really useful because I can know where my teammates dropped pallets so I can avoid unsafe areas.
Alhought WoW helps new players learning how to loop (which is a good thing), survivors who already know how to loop, chain or hold w can very much still do it without WoW bc in the end it's just an info perk.
1 -
If WoO becomes OP, that is pretty much equivalent to maps being OP.
0 -
Nerfing the perk will not make maps more "balanced", Even the perk has a cooldown, it will not stop survivors to chain loops, there is no explanation to complain about WoO, just beucase it's used a lot doens't mean is overpowed
11 -
It's more of a problem with maps than this perk.
0 -
Make WoO a radius like perk ( you'll see pallet in a 12m area ) and fix the maps
There you go, problem solved
0 -
'Windows of Opportunity' in a nutshell -
9 -
The problem is maps, and the reason it's so highly used is because it gives extremely useful info that you can't get from the survivor action HUD
0 -
That's like saying infinite aura reading won't help in chase.
The chase becomes much easier with WoO. That isn't necessarily a bad thing but it is something that should be considered.
3 -
Idk about OP, or even problematic, but it's strength should not be underestimated. Knowing exactly where to go for safety can extend your chase times by a lot.
3 -
Not OP. But I don't think it needed buff frankly.
The perk was already giving enough info with cooldown before.
1 -
At some point, killer players will have to come to terms with the fact that survivors get to run perks sometimes.
16 -
In a vacuum, the perk isn't too problematic (though you could argue that its range shouldn't extent past one tile). The issue is that the perk allows one to take full advantage of the broken maps.
So ideally, BHVR should "simply" fix the maps, but I don't think anyone actually expects that to happen.
0 -
Complaining about windows is just another step in trying to get any useful perks nerfed into the ground. First it was DH, and DS, then medkits and COH, now it’s windows, toolboxes and sprint burst, because survivors have switched to running constant gen builds because of the healing nerf.
Every time a perk gets nerfed to the point of uselessness and people start running other perks, then that new perk that becomes a favorite get complained about. This is boilerplate.
8 -
It on it's own isn't that great
It in the context of maps oversaturated with vaults and palettes can be tedious. It's a perk that allows us to optimize the guess work out of a loop
0 -
"What about the players who already have all that information and don't use the perk?"
1. Most maps have enough variability that you can't always know where every pallet is. This makes it risky to leave a tile and hold W since you won't necessarily know if the tile you end up at will be useful. Anything that gives some small measure of risk to holding W is a good thing. There's no skill expression from either side in running in straight lines.
2. Losing chases to a survivor because of a combination of their looping skill, map knowledge, and planning, is an example of skill expression determining the outcome. This should be the goal of a pvp game. If a single perk allows a low skill survivor to have the same chase length as a veteran player, that's the opposite of skill determining the outcome.
"Players already have this information"
1. Then why is it the most popular survivor perk??
1 -
Anything that helps survivors even if by a small amount is OP in the killers rule book for survivors, every perk for survivors is op. Yay technician
6 -
Salón a balanced map hahahahaahaha
1 -
Nah fix maps and leave the perk alone. Problem solved
1 -
Problem: perk that let's survivors optimally use map resources every chase with no downside or limitation.
Solution: remove map resources so survivors have nothing to do in chase but die.
🤔
1 -
Bring back its cooldown.
1 -
No I wouldn't say it's OP at all. Players are just coming around to the idea that info perks are actually useful and fairly underrated likely in light of the fact that healing and regression aren't OP anymore, and therefore not the default choice.
0 -
I'm waiting for Bond to be nerfed so survivirs now accidentally bring the killer to their mate working on gens. Survivors should not be able to avoid tiles their mates are working on because it steals the opportunity from a killer to disrupt a gen and get a free hit on the working survivor (possibly even a down cause he might be a weak looper)
This is of course sarcasm, but I'm just taking this a step further to further nerfing solo survivor (obviously good SWF doesn't care because they already communicate the pallets they used up etc.)
1 -
Bond is a killer perk LOL. I wont lie that one I would want that nerf people do purposely sandbag with it.
1 -
But killers are ok with tunneling, isn’t that the equivalent to a cheat sheet on your hand gif?
3 -
Fine lets nerf windows, and then youll be complaining about the good survivor perk instead of nerfing the terrible maps like garden of joy, the game, borgo, the new killer map
4 -
I play 90% survivor friendo! I just want skill to matter for both sides and WoO is a perk that facilitates boring playstyles. I feel the same way about killer powers that give no agency to survivors, like Knight and SM.
0 -
I didn't say it didn't make it easier. All I'm saying is if you don't know how to use the information it's not going to help that much.
0 -
:)
2 -
I cannot recall anybody complaining about this perk before. There is not anything about the perk that can come across to me as overpowered and I'm confused as to how "Windows of Opportunity" can be construed as overpowered.
It's probably used more because it is very beginner-friendly, as it allows people to learn where to run to and learn the ropes.
If there are complaints regarding this perk as overpowered, I'm worried about the thinking behind that belief.
5 -
Aura reading is also "cheating" for killers you can't find stealthy survivors then? What about chase perks on killers? Or even Bloodlust? Doesn't lower the skill of the killer when chasing?
6 -
The problem with that line of logic is that almost everything you've listed did need changing. Prior to 6.1.0, Dead Hard was overwhelmingly overpowered, it desperately needed to be nerfed. Decisive Strike wasn't overpowered, but it was unhealthy due to the way players were using it; the state it was in prior to 6.1.0 was a healthy one and it'll be a healthy perk again with its stun duration increased. Medkits and CoH were also a problem, especially in combination, because ultra-fast self healing is a huge balance problem.
To the wider topic, I don't think Windows of Opportunity is OP, or anywhere close to your list. I also don't think Sprint Burst needs to be nerfed, though toolboxes obviously do.
Windows isn't really a huge problem when map resources are balanced, it's just convenient for survivors. You as a killer still have every method of outplaying a survivor available to you, it's not like it shows your aura, and you also have Blindness to turn it off, alongside other aura perks. It only becomes a problem when survivors are on maps with easily chainable safe tiles, and... it's not as though those maps aren't a problem outside of using this perk.
4 -
A hight pick rate doesn't mean that something is OP.
0 -
I don't see it as a problem; I see it as a perk for people without a ton of map awareness, which is fine.
As for myself, I am not at all a great looper, even though after thousands of in game hours I have a ton of map awareness (as much from playing killer as survivor). So being able to see all the resources doesn't mean you'll be able to utilize them efficiently.
And those experienced players who can really use their resources super efficiently probably aren't the ones running WoO.
1
