Made For This is Miserable To Play Against as Killer
I don't think any perk in the game should increase the maximum base movement speed without any other requisite than something that happens naturally in every chase (be injured), and gaining a whole extra meter every 8 seconds is making any chase at already extremely-strong loops with strong vaults like LT walls, main buildings, or god pallets a game-losing chase. That 1 extra meter per 8 seconds is the difference between making another loop.
Made For This recreates the Dead Harding for distance issue, but with Made For This the "distance" aspect is permanent.
When the perk is paired with other strong movement speed perks like Dark Theory, Hope, Power of Two, and Blood Pact, it has become immediately miserable to play Killer against this perk and these combos.
Not to mention that healing other survivors gives a survivor ten whole seconds of endurance, and the 3% movement speed doesn't even deactivate after tanking the free hit!
Killers that struggle to keep up in chase (Trickster, or Michael Myers running Scratched Mirror) are finding it nearly impossible to get downs.
Killers without Special Attacks (like Sadako, Trapper, or Dredge) are finding it impossible to catch up to killers.
Even killers like Knight are having their power negated: Made for This allows survivors to run FASTER than Knight's Guards!
I have no interested in sacrificing a whole perk or addon slot every game just to force the exhaustion effect in the case someone MIGHT be running Made For This: This was the same solution (that many were unhappy with) proposed for countering Boon: Circle of Healing.
Either remove the movement speed and keep the endurance, or tone the movement speed down to 1% or 2% and remove the endurance entirely. The perk doesn't need two ridiculously strong effects, when there are already so many movement speed perks that synergize extremely well with free movement speed..
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Another thing to make these baby survivors have the time of their life while they t-bag the killer who can't catch up.
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Get better I say lmao only a handful of you are complaining
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Just saw a YouTube video of some guy doing infinite loops with made for this and blood pact, totally fair and balanced...
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You can try using your Killer powers or shutting down that build. You'll know if someone's doing Blood Pact stuff if it's the same 2 people staying together.
Not to mention that videos are typically cherrypicked, try getting that same value in a match against Killers who identify that build.
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Luckily you can always get the value of MFT pretty much no matter what, even fearmonger can't help thanks to pity 5 seconds duration that can very well be removed in healthy state.
We don't need any ridiculous example, made for this is already broken as is, stacking doesn't even matter.
I can say exact same thing against you though, get better, only a handful of peoples are defending this bullshit.
People shouldn't be told to understand how broken glorified subtle speed hack is, this is ridiculous to think otherwise.
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One streamer pointed out that maps were designed with 100ms on Survivors in mind. That’s why movement speed buffs for them usually have restrictions or conditions to fulfill like Hope, Blood pact etc
MFT throws this balance out of the window especially when paired with other speed boosting perks and the conditions are extremely easy to fulfill.
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Silly argument. If when killers injure survivors and they lose 3%, I don't think it would be a 'get better' matter. The world be ending if the killers had the same perk.
This isn't me being an aggressive killer main, but the perk is a crutch. You mess up as survivor and get rewarded with a speed buff, this is the definition of a crutch.
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Well gotta make sure that Survivors always get the best stuff since all the Survivor mains are the ones who shill out big money for cosmetics.
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Do you still play Legion?
I want to see you shutdown loop with your power...
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On paper, 1 extra meter every 8 seconds doesn't sound like a lot. But in reality, that's a whole window or pallet that is reached that wouldn't otherwise.
Made For This creates the Dead Harding for Distance issue all over again, except now the "distance" is permanently applied throughout the entire match.
I've tried playing killer every day since the new chapter and every single match has been absolutely undeniably miserably unless I play a ranged or mobility killer. I spend a whole extra minute or longer in chases that used to take 40 seconds.
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Yes Blood Pact and MFT will not become meta, but can you explain me how I can counter MFT with my power, if I play Pig, Trapper, Billy, Myers, Deathslinger, Huntress, Doctor, Freddy, Ghost Face, Legion, Onrio, Trickstar, Knight, SM. Everyone of this Killers cant rlly counter MFT for differend resons:
- M1 Killer only without a chase power to counter: Pig, Trapper, Myers, Ghost Face, Legion, Onrio, Knight, SM
- Killer uses his power to get a bit of distance to be able to hit befor they reach the pallet or window, that doesnt happen with MFT anymore: Freddy, Doctor, Billy and Pig again
- Killers that are so slow, that MFT makes a Rock to an infinite: Deathslinger, Huntress, Trickstar
Do you know what nearly all of these Killers have in common?
They nerly all are weak!
So MFT NEEDS A REWORK, because it punishes weaker killers and the top killers dont care about the perk.
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What value? 3% Haste??? By that logic, Dark Theory and Blood Pact ALONE are busted, yet Dark Theory is one of the worst Boons in the game, and is awful overall outside of being a Boon.
And no, don't move the goalposts to "LIMITED RANGE" and "2 PEOPLE NEEDED", you're arguing that 3% is broken, Dark Theory gives nearly the same amount, yet it was never used because that similar amount of Haste isn't broken, so it wasn't worth dealing with range restrictions or trying to make it work because the effect was never strong.
And yeah, only a handful of people are defending it because you guys, including content creators, are fearmongers unironically who scream about new content, always, 24/7. This happened with Hyperfocus, this happened with Blood Rush, it never ends. You guys have no imagination and can't deal with new challenges, history has proven this is the case. Your arguments are all laughable, full of fallacies and misinformation, and I can TELL you guys are panicking and crying on the other end.
The people defending it are the ones seeing the truth, their logic is typically solid and they point out weaknesses in your reasoning.
ATM, Killers kinda do with NOED and other Haste perks LMAO, man thought he had a good comeback.
And yeah, plenty of perks in this game are all about messing up, get with the program. This isn't anything new, and don't indirectly compare this to DH please by calling this a crutch, ty.
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I mostly used that icon because Legion was originally my favorite. I play Slinger atm.
And yeah, Legion will kinda struggle, but that's the case for any M1 who has to play the M1 looping game. They need to run Bamboozle to deal with good loopers who don't allow red stain mindgames to even have a chance of confusing them, as Survivors can position themselves at every loop so they always win every interaction (EVERY loop has 1 of these positions), this has been the case since the beginning of DBD.
You can try actually doing red stain mindgames, running Bamboozle (which is mandatory on M1 Killers anyways to deal with good loopers, don't try to ignore this and go "I SHOULDNT HAVE TO RUN A PERK-" no you KNOW what I mean)
- M1s have weak anti-loop, but not none. The first 4 have ways to interact with loops slightly, Legion and Onryo are the only true M1s. Knight and SM can use their powers, and SM can use insta-downs or insta pallet breaks to force hits (although she needs Bamboozle imo)
- Uh, Freddy and Doctor can do both? Freddy has dream pallets and you position snares around loops, not next to pallets.
- Slinger can shoot through cracks, Huntress can throw over objects, and Trickster is awful anyways???
And LMAO, Slinger having great 1v1 (and the ability to counter Haste people by just shooting over and through objects lmao) and Huntress being ######### god, yet being "weak" is hilarious.
This is the average reasoning + misinformation of DBD forums posters and DBD fearmongers rolled into one, and this is EXACTLY why the devs didn't listen on MTF; they knew you all were overreacting, as usual.
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Survivors can position themselves at every loop so they always win every interaction (EVERY loop has 1 of these positions), this has been the case since the beginning of DBD.
Sure and this perk makes it even worse for M1 killers
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The solution is to adjust the M1 Killers, not listen to pathetic fearmongers and get rid of perks that can cause them to scratch their brain and think on how to counter this in the future.
Majority of users of this perk will be bad at looping, you will see no common difference in your matches as a result. Feel free to keep focusing on minority situations where M1 Killers are EXPECTED to be bad (like against smart loopers), and therefore you should stop playing them or run perks to help.
Something tells me you're going to focus on whatever's convenient so you can double down again though, you're not open to changing your mind and you know it.
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Yes, 2% or 7% is actually broken as long as it is working , dark theory can increase duration of the chase by a lot in certain tiles but at least it range makes that limited to one tile, bloodpact is a nightmare if you actually managed to find someone who can utilize it.
And then hope, it doesn't really matter because by the time of endgame it's pretty much survivor win.
The reason no one complained much about all those perks are just that they are uncommon (because it's not so reliable or hard to pull off), doesn't mean those perks aren't strong.
If you can't see the difference in having 20% more distance during any chase as long as you are injured, that's uh your problem.
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This perk simply is not well designed, not really complicated topic. It's stronger against weaker killers, how is that good system?
That's why Eruption was an issue, it was stronger against soloQ, but not really good against SWF.
Why would I ever focus how good perk is in hands of bad players? I couldn't care less.
Majority of Nurse players are bad players, why was she nerfed? She has lowest kill rate, so she should get buffed with this logic.
There is no point in caring about soloQ players, right? You should just expect games will suck for them.
This just doesn't make any sense.
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Nobody in the community was asking for this perk, but there are people defending that perk...
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
I have run the perk as survivor the last couple of days and played against it as killer.
Yes, it is an unhealthy perk in its current state. Being injured making you 3% faster is huge.
Almost every survivor runs it because it is that good. It makes you loop a loop a couple of times more. It makes you reach other loops, you otherwise wouldn't have made.
It extends chases significantly in a game that is already plagued by overtly survivor sided maps and generator rushing.
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What I consider best build currently was used by Ayrun:
Iron Will, Resilience, Made for this, Dead Hard.
It's just evil and lot of killers are not used to Iron Will anymore, so you can just leave loop while they mind game and you get more distance, because of MFT.
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So the first 4 with "slightly anti loop":
- Pig Dash get countert by run away and speed perks like MFT, whitch turns the pig into a M1 only killer.
- Trapper get countert by run away and MFT giving speed can deny the hit because of mutch more distance, that leads to another loop
- Myers has a bigger lunch + survivor has more speed = M1 Killer
- Ghost Face has more mindgames true, but most GF Players dont go nightshroud if the survivor is already injured.
So now to Knight and SM. You say the Knight can use his power. Do you know how his power get counterd? By out run them and with MFT this means out Speed them. Means Knight = M1 Killer
SM i think we all can agree her "Instadown" is totally trash so the counter to her is run away = M1 only Killer
Freddys dream pallets are trash against more than 10 IQ players so I dont say any arguement there.
Doctor shocks and shocks and schocks while slightly catching up. What can we say about this playstyle?
- Every Shock slows the Doctor down.
- while shocking and looping the Doctor is only slightly faster than the survivors
- He cant get Bloodlust, because he uses his power
So know what happends if the suvivor is 3% faster?
The Doctor has no anti loop anymore.
If the Slinger and the huntress can shot/throw over the loop the survivor looping was very stupid to loop there, but if he/she was smart he/she would just run to a rock and run around forever.
Yes Huntress isnt weak I just forgot to write it under all of this. This was why I wrote NEARLY ALL ARE WEAK.
And now to you commant to misinformation. Not thinking about every killer vs MFT and try to argue against someone is kinda misinformation. I put the killers in four catecories, because I thought everynoe would be smart enough to think by themself. Sry that I thought you are smarter.
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I'm sorry but this misses the point entirely with balancing.
If you tune the M1 killers higher because of this perk, you punish anyone NOT running the perk. Killers are already tunneling out anyone who doesn't run it to get a chance, it happened last 5 survivor games I ran. An entire game's balance shouldn't be tuned because of one unbalanced perk.
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MFT is strong but it’s not uncountable survivors still need to know how to loop and predict the killer granted can MFT stall a little longer sure but that’s part of being unpredictable if you know a survivor is gonna greed then don’t respect lunge through the pallet even if you get stunned you can at least trade
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The only other "strong" movement speed perks you listed is Hope, all the other ones are niche or too situational that nobody uses them, and if they do they're mostly just memeing at that point lol
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Against who? Scratched Mirror Myers? Because even 110% killers get bloodlust AND there's a whole extra person that's nearby
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-sighs- The DBD forums never changes.
No, the actual issue is that M1 Killers, which are a minority of the Killer roster, "can't handle" plenty of perks in DBD, and everything needs to be balanced with them in mind. It's quite obvious that they're the problem and they need to be adjusted going forward, because there are plenty of insta-downs or anti-loop Killers in this game where perks like MTF are much easier to shut down consistently or just straight up invalidate.
This exact logic is used for justifying Nurse and Blight nerfs, as they are the strongest Killers and perks being nerfed due to them, is something people complained about. I still remember how Awakened Awareness, Wesker's perk, was nerfed before it went live because of Starstruck Nurse. You should have no problem with buffing M1 Killers so they are closer to the large amount of anti-loop and instadown Killers.
"Killers are already tunneling out anyone who doesn't run it to get a chance, it happened last 5 survivor games I ran."
Killers are apparently, according to the community, camping and tunneling every game regardless, I'm pretty sure MTF isn't making a difference.
Because those "bad players" are the MAJORITY of the playerbase and community. Solo queue is also the majority, stats were posted on these forums over the years. Nurse was nerfed because it's easier than people think to get results as Nurse, she has a low kill rate because she's free and takes a few hours to learn her. So people go plenty of games before they begin to really shine as Nurse.
Also, I know you specified "perks", but let me go ahead and make something very clear: Not giving even a single ######### about bad players is how you end up with games where the weak majority needs to be playing PERFECTLY in order to beat the power role. Which is exactly how games die; because it becomes too difficult for casuals to get any kind of result. And casuals are the majority of players. They are the spenders.
Solo queue Survivors are the majority as it is, if the game was balanced to require all 4 Survivors to be gods to win, then basically everyone would switch to Killer or leave, because then you'd need a 4 man SWF to win, and solo queuers do not have that 24/7.
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Trust an experienced killer, a couple percent makes a difference. Remember the speed addon of SM? 2% bonus speed, but the survivor dies in the first loop. Because distance is so critical. Muscle memory suggests that, the killer will catch up on you only on the 4th lap, but the difference is so insignificant that you are cut off already on the second.
Now the situation is reversed against the "baby" Trapper, who is unfortunate enough not to have a trap in his hands. How long can you (with MfT) walk in circles around one pallet?
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funny you are using this for bad case and can't even realize it.
You should care about bad players and soloQ. Sure, that's why eruption and CoB were an issue and it got nerfed.
But you are doing opposite here. You are saying perk is fine, because bad players can't use it. I couldn't care less they don't know how to use it. That's not how you balance the game.
You want to ignore weak killers, but then try to be white knight for bad survivors. Someone is biased here...
This perk is not good in hands of weak survivors, so it shouldn't be an issue to nerf it, right? They won't notice a difference.
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Then let me, as an experienced killer, play with the majority. Let me feel the pleasure of my skills. Let me win, FFS...
If there is MMR in the game, the game automatically becomes competitive, and therefore perks, powers, and "features" should be considered competitive and balanced accordingly.
Speed is the most important element of DBD and should not be given simply because the survivor is injured. (If I'm wrong, WhyTF do top killers all have a somewhat increased movement speed? (Spirit - addons. Blight&Wesker - dash. Nurse - literal fricking teleporter...) They all catch up with survivors faster than "usual", and with some skill they become impossible to loop.
The rest of the killers are just normal speed with privileges.They can be looped indefinitely and almost without threat.
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