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made for this is not overpowered
Stop doomsdaying. This perk is at best decent on its own.
MFT boosts your speed to 4.12m/s as opposed to 4m/s. This causes the killer speed advantage to drop to 0.28m/s and 0.48m/s respectively.
Things to go over:
- MFT and on hit distance
- MFT and 4.4 killers
- MFT in comparison to other exhaustion perks
- some actual balance issues with the perk
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT and On-hit Burst -=-=-
The on hit burst lasts for 1.8s, with a speed of 6.6m/s. The distance gained without MFT will be represented by d. The distance gained with MFT will be represented by m.
1.8(6.6)= 11.8m of distance, d.
1.8(6.72)= 12.096m of distance, m.
Now, include the distance gained during the rest of the hit cooldown.
2.7 - 1.8 = 0.9s of 4m/s distance gaining
0.9(4)= 3.6m
0.9(4.12)= 3.708m
3.6+11.8= 15.4m
3.708+12.096=15.804m
So now we just divide those variables by killer speed advantage respectively.
15.4/0.4 = 38.5s
15.4/0.6 = 25.666s
15.804/0.28 = 56.4s
15.604/0.48 = 32.925s
For 110% killers: a roughly 18s increase
for 115% killers: a roughly 8s increase.
110% killers will be largely unaffected, as their powers typically dont care how far the survivor is from you. 115% Are barely affected at all, a simple 8s at the cost of it being your only ex perk.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT and 110% killers -=-=-
I've seen many say that this perk will ruin 4.4 killers... how? yes, their speed advantage is reduced significantly by MFT. But speed advantage has never been their strong suit. the near 20s difference with MFT against 110% is only intimidating on paper. Once you realize its not even a full meter difference in distance, and that a hag trap or hatchet doesnt care if you are 0.4 extra meters away, its much less scary.
- Huntress hatchets move at 40m/s at full charge, and only need a small window of LOS to get an injury. The only possible difference would be melee huntress having fewer opportunities. But if that ends up happening, you can easily just not melee hatchet them and go for range instead.
- Hag traps arent gonna tp any slower bc of MFT. Shes still gonna get the hit.
- Slinger: see huntress. a fully charged hatchest and a harpoon have the same speed.
- Spirit is spirit.
- Trickster might have actual issues... however thats a problem with his own design and balance rather than MFT. just because MFT disproportionately affects a c-tier killer doesnt mean MFT is the problem.
If anything we should be fearing for non ranged or mobile killers if we're gonna be afraid. But realistically I can only see a very small selection of killers actually caring this perk exists in most scenarios. The ones I can think of are sadako, myers, legion, maybe pig, freddy, and trickster. All of those killers are some of the very worst in the game, having no chase pressure or mobility to end chases quickly with. So obviously a perk that makes the weakness worse will hurt them more. But thats much more an issue with those killers in particular rather than the perk itself. If sadako TVs werent terrible, they might make a good chase tool. If legion could get consistent downs during frenzy he'd be decent. Only the killers who already do almost nothing in a chase will be hurt by MFT. I cant see any situation that a stronger killer, like wesker or demopupper would care.
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-=-=- Is MFT better than its alternatives? -=-=-
In my opinion, no. Its competition are SB, lithe, overcome and maybe BL.
Theres gonna be two parts to this, math and direct comparison.
math time :p
Sprint burst moves you at 6m/s for 3s. the distance gained from one SB is 4.2m and 4.8m for 115s an 110s.
Made for this moves you at 4.12m/s forever as long as you are injured.
For MFT to buy you the same time, you would need to be running for 30 and 35s in chase while injured. Even with MFT, people really dont survive that long while injured. Not to mention you are locking yourself out of perks that get more value earlier and possibly multiple times in chase for something with more limitation for less power.
SB: Top tier perk. Provides a safety net, being able to secure you a loop from anywhere as long as its off cooldown. Can be recharged in chase depending on your skill level. Can be 99d in or out of chase, to then be used for the aforementioned safety net while stil being able to run. Also functions as amazing anti tunnel, making massive distance between you and the killer off hook every time.
Benefits of SB are safety, anti tunnel, chase extension. These three things typically determine if a perk is good, for example DH was godly because it gave massive chase extension and mistake erasure with infinite uses. Now its bad because it only gets 2 uses a game, if you dont land it its gone, and it doesnt have synergy with the more readily avaliable and consistent exhaustion perks.
Lithe: A perma 99d sprint burst, at the cost of only activating on vaults.. Ease-of-use and massive value for minimal loss (unlike having to walk mid chase for sb) make lithe a good alternative to SB for newer and experienced players alike.
Overcome: Extending the on hit burst to 3.8s is MASSIVE. The distance gain by this is insane, getting you another 6m of distance just from that 0.9s of hit cooldown you normally get 3m from. Having overcome practically guarantees that you will reach a pallet no matter what. And if you choose to be risky and try to maximize distance before stopping at a loop, some killers might just give up because you've gotten so much distance. Its different from lithe and SB, the easiest to use while providing less overall value. While a very skilled player will get more from lithe and SB, overcome fills its own niche of tile chaining and distance making in dbd.
BL: All the benefits that lithe has over SB, except much more situational. Its not really worth using unless you bring map offering for it, since most maps just have like 3 drop spots and 20 vaults so lithe is just better.
MFT: Similar to overcome where you need to get hit before it does anything. Provides no level of safety, anti tunnel, or guaranteed tile chaining. Pure, raw chase extension. While it could be used with lithe, you would have to just not fast vault for the whole chase until you are injured and have gotten MFT value. Theoretically you can have other ex perks with it, but they will most likely just prevent MFT from seeing any value. It does extend the on hit bursts distance by a decent enough amount, and against non chase killers can be pretty good. However any killer with mobility, range, or just overall good chase potential will be mostly unaffected by the perk.
The difference between MFT and its counterparts is that every single killer in the game has to deal with lithe, SB and overcome in some way. While most killers, especially the most played ones like wesker, nurse, blight and huntress, remain completely unaffected by the perk.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT actual balance problems -=-=-
While on its own MFT is mostly outshined by better perks, certain combinations can make this a monster. Constant haste boosts, while typically niche can be combined for insane value. You could easily combine MFT with B:DT and turn any 115 killer into a 110. Think of any killer you've heard suggested their speed be reduced, except now you can actually do it in game with minimal effort.
- Place boon
- get injured
- loop in boon
- profit
Remember when I said that for the most part the majority of killers can just ignore MFT? well not anymore. a 5% is INSANE. Think of demopupper; one of the best designed and balanced killers in the game. What if he was 110%? C-tier trash. If he cant even catch up to put people in shred's range, if one single pallet drop resets the chase then hes useless outside of his mobility. Huntress, hag and all them are 110 because their powers are crazy good at downing people without range being much of an issue. Huntress can down you as long as she can see you, and hag can tp to you from nearly anywhere on the map. But the power to turn killers who actually have to deal with distance and range into 110% is too much.
turning TRICKSTER into 105% would just be too much for the poor man. Unlike the others range actually does matter to him, chaining knives is much harder from farther away. Granted he could just kick the boon, but its unfair to him that he has to lose distance kicking boons bc hes forced to be tier one myers.
I think that MFT should not stack with B:DT. Like at least power of two and blood pact have CRAZY restrictions, cooldowns and such. But this combo doesnt require any teamwork or anything, you just do it and it works hella well. I'm worried the combo might become meta in some swf groups or smth idk. B:DT needs buffs but this is not it 😭
haste stacking itself isnt an issue right now because all methods of permanent haste have major restrictions. And the one that doesnt, b:dt, is terrible and provides nearly no speed bonus. MFT is fine in a vacuum, but having two non majorly restrictive permahaste perks is bound to cause issues with stacking. MFT + hope is fine because hope does nothing all game and like adrenaline needs you to survive for value. MFT + power of two/blood pact is less fine but since those two perks are so bad their taking up a slot hat could be used by an actual good perk.
thanks for reading I got really sick of people saying it was op without any mathematical/in game evidence.
Comments
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Yeah 20% extra distance for everything in chasing forever are not overpower.
I totally believe you.
When do dev turn MOM in the original version?
I still waiting.
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By your own math 115 Killers require 8 additional seconds to catch up against MFT on a straight line chase. That's 8 additional seconds to reach a pallet/window. 8 seconds is long enough to run cross multiple map tiles meaning you can likely SKIP the nearest pallet/window with MFT to prevent creating dead zones.
There's no point listing off Killers. ALL of them but Nurse and Blight will have a bad time dealing with an extra 8 seconds of catch up. Even Blight might have issue depending on the map. Nurse, it's Nurse. Nothing gonna stop a Nurse.
110% requires 18 additional seconds by your own math. How the hell is that OK in your eyes? In raw chase length 18 seconds is an eternity and even if you pick/choose what Killer it is that extra time still leaves PLENTY of extra time to reach cover.
Hag? Hag already has problems chasing anyone without already having traps placed. Giving Survivors more distance is just making things worse and forces Hag to camp or lock down a 3 gen that much harder.
Spirit? Odds are you spent your power landing that first hit. Meaning you can't use it for some time. How much is a variable but the point is that Spirit already has to blindly guess where Survivors run to as chasing at 110 is painful. She will have that much of a harder time guessing where Survivors ran to as each corner they can reach is another blind guess Spirit has to take unless she can physically see the Survivor.
Huntress? Huntress is effected the least Id say and it purely depends on what map it is and what type of cover Survivors can reach.
Deathslinger? He has to reload and then chase at 110 to catch up. Each extra meter he has to run is a nightmare if there's so much as a bush in the way.
Trickster? He's close to Huntress, but needing to land several hits makes any cover Survivors reach an issue. So he'd be worse than Huntress, but not by all that much in the long run. Depending on the map that is.
There's simply no downside to MFT. None. You own math proves that MFT will in fact give any and all Survivors a DAMNED good advantage each time they get wounded! And considering how often Survivors get wounded. All of those 8 or 18 seconds will be adding up again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again through out any given game.
MFT is a perk so good. There's zero reason to NOT run it!
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You wrote a whole lot but don't seem to understand the biggest advantage you get. It's not just a distance thing. If you're a good survivor, the 3% haste is a massive boost in strong loops. It really hurts Huntress in high level play where you already had to run loops almost perfectly to get a hit.
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You provided zero arguments on why it is not a problem for 110% killers.
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Wait a second so what you are saying for huntress is she is ok because a fully charged hatchet can hit them, did you acount for the survivor to actually be sentient and use LoS blocker to just gain distance and dont care about hatchets, same as slinger he only has 18 m of shooting range and trickster, same as slinger by the time you get injured you should either make hell on earth in a loop for him or use the speedboost to navigate better while using LoS to not get caught MtF, are we assuming people just run in the open without baiting hits or using LoS blockers?
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The logic in this is faulty; you can prove that Made For This is extremely strong with math too.
Maximum chase start distance is 12m. Assuming a chase starts at that distance, we can establish the following.
A 4.6m/s (115%) killer would reach the survivor in 20 seconds.
A 4.4m/s (110%) killer would reach the survivor in 30 seconds.
With Made For This, these values increase to 25 seconds and 43 seconds.
Even five extra seconds in a chase can make a huge difference. And this isn't even factoring in potential perks you can pair with it, such as Dark Theory (+2%, ups it to 30s and 60 ######### seconds) and Hope (60s and literally impossible to gain distance until Bloodlust kicks in).
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yeah, in a straight line chase. if their just playing normally, as in looping and chaining tiles, then an SB or lithe is absolutely a better pick. That 8 seconds doesnt really matter to most players because most players get some distance then stop at the nearest pallet repeat. W gamers are already uncatchable for plenty of killers, MFT isnt gonna change that the best strat against straight line chasers is to just get a few pallets down/broken then leave.
the 18s for 110% killers is near meaningless. Like I said, the point of 110% killers being slower is because their powers dont typically care how much distance you have. Spirit goes nyoom, hag teleports, huntress snipes etc. None of these killers will ever be playing like a sadako because they are built for that to be their weakest strategy. About hag though, shes a special case as a setup killer. Her little area of the map makes anything a survivor does futile while shes powerless everywhere else. she probably needs some mini buffs, but that has nothing to do with MTF.
You absolutely missed the point of the math. Yeah, 8-18 seconds is a lot. But who cares? Any stong high tier killer sure doesn't. If those extra seconds meant anything to the majority of the roster, then logically shouldnt overcome be THE meta perk? Overcome just does that math but way better. Except its not, because that extra distance just guarantees you get out of a deadzone etc. So if MFT just does that but worse, why is there any reason to use MFT for that reason? You assumption completely ignores how actual survivors play, nobody runs in a straight line playing solely for distance. And those who do waste pallet after pallet, which just helps the killer. A 110 killer is built around distance not mattering to their kit, so their worse at gaining it. If a killer is built around gaining distance quickly, then how does 0.12m/s more matter to them? If blight can catch someone mid SB, how does this matter to him at all? In what way does a blight care you move 0.12m/s faster? He moves at 9.2, now he goes at 9.08. still gains over 5m/s a second on you during rush, still gonna down you CRAZY fast. Wesker goes at 11m/s, plague doesnt really care about on hit burst, the only high tier killer I can see being affected is oni. And thats only because hes half m1 trash and half absolutely insane. Any killer with can consistenly down people witht heir power, whether it be by speed or range, will not care about MFT. Any good blight gets most of their hits with rush anyways, same for really wesker and huntress etc etc because thats what their built around.
MFT is only effective vs killers with 0 mobility, 0 range and 0 chase potential. Meaning its only problematic against killers that needed buffs to begin with.
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- disagrees with me
- provides no argument beyond "me right u wrong doi"
Classic. So how about instead of strawmanning, we have a mature conversation? This is a forum for discussion. You bring nothing to the table with your worthless comment, except for boosting the post so thanks.
"in chasing for everything ever"
this is just... wrong. Its only while injured, its not like it just gives you 3% all the time. Its like resilience, improved basekit for chase while injured. Except with resilience theres actual incentive to stay injured bc gen speed up, not with MFT. Theres no reason you should just be healing up. Meaning actually, you only get it for HALF the chase. So its probably closer to a 10% increase to chasetime.
Except its not. because you forgot the part where killers have these things called POWERS. You know like blight where he moves at 230%, and will absolutely still down you if it goes down to 227%? Yeah. All the high tier killers dont give two elodies about MFT.
I will now list every single killer and why they dont care.
Nurse moves at 16m/s through walls. She doesnt care if its suddenly 15.88m/s.
Blight moves at 9.2m/s with 5 tokens and speed addons. He doesnt care if he gains 0.12m/s less, because hes still gaining 5m/s.
Spirit holds a button and goes at 7m/s. see blight.
Plague doesnt really have to bother with injured people in general. She justs infects you, either gets you to max and downs you bc no on hit burst (MFT wont make up for no on hit burst) or infects and leaves you. Then you either go cleanse or are injured the whole game. In the former, she gets omega puke with great range and minimal speed loss. She can shred through you like butter. Or, on the contrary, you stay injured and get MFT value. Except since you are injured at the start, the chase will be a lot faster. Faster than made for this can make up for.
Wesker not only has two tokens that move him at 11m/s, but he has a hinder effect on max infection and basekit slowdown to get rid of it. So if you get fully infect no mft value. And if you dont you still have to go cleanse, losing all the time you gained with mft (it wasnt a lot of time to begin with)
Artist. I dont need to say anything, shes huntress on way too much crack. she can and will down you through walls, and a 3% speed bonus isnt gonna scuff her prediction or how goddam fast those bird go. You are not outrunning a swarm.
Oni might have issues, being an m1 killer and all. Except most good onis hit one survivor, then go hit another to get power really fast. In that scenario, the most common way I've seen onis build power, nobody hes chasing is injured. And then when he goes brrr its a blight situation. And also an instadown, good lucking getting mtf value.
Pyramid head also hits you through walls. He will have 0 issues, against a good pyramid head looping is trivial. It isnt about distance, its about prediction and if he wins it you are injured. unless you are w gaming to avoid it, meaning you are wasting pallets meaning you are helping the killer. so its either looping is trivial and the sped bonus is worthless or you waste pallets. either way no mft value.
huntress. All she needs to down you is LOS. Charged hatchets move at 40m/s, you really think you can outrun a hatchet just because its moving at 39.88m/s now?
hag. If you are in her web, your dead. its just a fact. she can teleport. distance is trivial to a hag in web. out of webs a different story, but that goes without mft as well and is an issue with her basekit rather than the perk.
pinhead literally forces you to stand still, how is 3% gonna change that? good pinheads just open the portal right on you and insta land the chain. not to mention chain hunts, constantly getting slowed will not be alleviated by mft.
Twins, victor moves at like SB speed. charlotte will just run sloppy like all twins do, play hit and run then snowball downs with victor. pretty simple, you aint outrunning the mach 3 baby.
deathslinger: see huntress. the only reason he might be minimally affected is being he needs to reload, so you get an extra like 0.3 seconds worth of distance which could get you a pallet. but if he reloads then a good slinger will just shoot you and you done for.
skull merchant: 3 gen mid merchants just expose you, or everyone just stays injured. Regular and 3 gen mid merchants get a speed boost from drones being disabled. Just one disabled drone means mft now gives a free 1% speed boost. how powerful!
Knight forces the hold w strat, so you are gonna be wasting pallets against him by default. He is an m1 killer, so you'll get decent value but the pallets wasted will pretty easily counteract it when he gets easy downs later because of it.
demodog has great map mobility and chase potential. In a situation where mft would have gotten you the vault or pallet, he will just shred. and then you go down. because he can just pull a wesker.
doctors special, hes an m1 killer with no way to really down you quickly. but he does hard deny pallets and windows, so a good doctor could possibly nullify any pallets or windows you could have reach with mft. applies less to pallets bc predrop.
nemesis, he does have tenta strike but he has to infect you first giving you an on hit burst. If you are infected then similar to demo dog pallets and windows gained can turn into downs for him. Otherwise hes just an m1 killer.
Dredge benefits from you being injured and has great anti loop+map mobility. if hes in nightfall then his teleport also becomes a great chase tool. He is affected somewhat by mft, but like knight he forces shift w so it kinda evens out. And besides he can always just leave you and built nightfall. he benefits either way.
hillbilly: the first killer in the list to actually care. A cracked billy will obviously curve the hell out of you and just ignore the idea of multiple health states, but your average billy cant use saw in chase and functions as just an m1 killer. mft actually annoys him a little, possibly enough to matter. but he is c-tier and needs buffs either way, so its probably just an issue with his kit. if his saw were more versatile in chase he'd be deadly. but sadly right now it aint.
bubba is the insta down king. he doesnt care if you move 3% because MFT will just never be active. Bubbas weakness is windows loops like T Ls, but most of the time if they see someone is going there they can just go chase someone else. its all or nothing, either you get insta downed or hes an m1 killer dealing with mft.
ghostface is another instadown king. Like he cares you've got made for this, he'll just expose you. unlike bubba, hes actually usable at window loops so he'll be insta downing you more consistently.
tricksters a ranged killer, see huntress. The difference is that he does care about range but not to the point mft matters.
legion cares about mft. probably the most actually. His whole power is based around injuring everyone and then chasing them down as an m1 killer. granted you are injured, but its legion.
pig has nothing in chase beyond ambush, some below average anti loop. probably cares about mft.
wraith cares so little its funny. In cloak he goes speed, and out of cloak he goes speeeeeeeeeeeed. Speed = no mft value.
clown directly denies any value with his bottles.
freddy does the same but much much worse, definitely affected
sadako has literally nothing in chase and will just cry
myers has nothing in chase except popping t3, which will deny all mft value. all or nothing.
trapper just catches you in traps and you go down instantly.
See how out of every killer in the game, only like 5 are actually affected? and their all the really bad killers that need buffs BECAUSE they have nothing in chase? Almost like the only way MFT can be good is if you are up against a killer whos literally powerless in chase...
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MFT is only effective vs killers with 0 mobility, 0 range and 0 chase potential. Meaning its only problematic against killers that needed buffs to begin with.
I purposely picked Doctor into this perk. MFT is legit kryptonite against his ability. The doctor when using his shock therapy reduces his movement to 77%. so from using 5 shock therapys to down a survivor, it becomes like 15 shock therapies. the perk is almost legit infinity vs his power. that perk legit makes his entire chase power useless. The killer with not so great chasing powers will be majorly affected by the perk. BVHR rarely improves killers to change that fact. they almost only look at stats.
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I mean I dont recall ever saying that. I said all huntress needs a small bit of los to down you, which is true. People run loops tight on LOS blocking geometry all the time. but that just makes one of her weaknesses worse, it doesnt stop her dead. that pallets going down eventually. Besides huntress is fine on nearly every loop except for those really small los blocking ones. And on those all it takes is one mistake and they get hit because the loops so small. On the longer loops you can always just charge up a hatchet and hit them because its long enough they cant just run behind it. Same goes for slinger and trickster (even if it takes longer). their gonna run out of those perfect loops eventually. And you can always just drop chase as a last resort if their that good.
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If you have to try this hard to justify why its not a problem, its a problem.
Scratched mirror Myers is dead against this perk, a play style that was already on life support.
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im not seeing how this proves im wrong. 5 extra seconds is good yeah, but what chase is gonna begin with someone injured? A MFT user has no reason to stay injured outside of chase. its not like resilience where theres gen progress as incentive, theres literally nothing. The best move is to start a chase healthy and get mft value once your injured. Those 5 extra seconds are gonna pale in comparison to the time you'd have gained from being healthy. And the idea that every killer will take that amount of time to catch up is false assumption to make. Wesker players like to hit m2 at every opportunity for slowdown, which moves at 11m/s. Nurse blink, blight rush, hatchets, harpoons, knives, and possessed chains are all powers that either decrease the time to catch up or have enough range that its not a necessity.
Those same 5 extra seconds are granted on an onhit burst anyways, but if thats what we're gonna say makes mft op then why isnt overcome the same way?
Besides, the second part isnt an issue with mft its an issue with speed stacking overall. mft boon dark theory is a broken combo that should definitely go. speed stacking was fine until mft came alone because it was always niche and really limited, but with this combo you and turn any killer into hag with just two perk slots.
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The more people argue, that its not broken, the more broken it looks to me.
Just saying.
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I jut have fun talking about my favorite game, anything divisive is easy to write about. Rip scratch mirror, but always moving at 105% was never gonna be strong anyways.
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because someone in hags web is TOTALLY gonna survive because they had mft guys, you can also outrun huntress hatchets!
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I understand that but I couldn't really find a way to show it in action without just going to test it and recording and im too lazy to do that for one forum post. I play huntress a lot, especially rn bc weskers disabled and I se your point. but personally I'd rather loop a mft user than a SB user. I prefer going against chase extension through slowing my gains than just directly adding 12s to the chase and reaching another loop.
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I would like to propose some simplier maths. Sprint burst/lithe (best exhaustion perks of last patch) gave 50% extra speed for 3 second which translates to 6m over 3 seconds. Made for this provides 3% extra speed which is 0.12m per second. If you want made for this to match sprintburst/lithe in value you need to last 6/0.12 = 50 seconds while injured with it which is quite a long time especially against some stronger killers. What does this mean? 50 seconds is a long time even with the 3% haste so I'd say this perk is probably worse than Sprint burst/lithe but is reasonable enough that the perk isn't bad (espcially considering it still gets value up until these 50 seconds). I will say this perk does better against killers with weaker chase where those 50 seconds can be more reasonable and worse against stronger chase killers who can down you anyway, instadown killers who avoid you being injured and stealth killer who can down you without a chase. It's solid but still worse than it's best competition.
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why didnt I think of that!? thats so much simpler, thank you so much for articulating how I feel about this perk so well lol. you mind if I add a paraphrased version to the post?
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Jesus.
You are serious.
Someone do a similar math before in the ptb feed back.
If my memory is not wrong.
MFT gain 70% value of SB in a 24m racing.
In other words,this unexhausted perk, you only need to put down a pallet one time in chasing to re-gain the distance,it already stronger than SB.
And guess what?it is still actived, forever!
We don't even need to talk about the strongest part of it like how it would effect to looping, just talk about shift W in to pre-drop,MFT is already an op broken perk.
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Regarding your point on Haste stacking, I think there's a very simple solution. Perform a consistency pass, like was done with methods of applying Exhaustion way back when™, and make it so you're only ever effected by 1 form of Haste at a time, whichever is greatest. This then removes the large issue of MFT stacking with other Haste perks to become genuinely overbearing while being okay by itself, and allows other perks like Dark Theory to be buffed to a useable level without worrying about causing some extreme combination. Also frees up potential design issues for future perks, as Haste stacking is no longer a concern.
It may not be a problem now, as the only 2 that can be consistently stacked is MFT and Dark Theory, but changing it now can free up the design team for a lot later on.
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Let me try that math myself.
The pallet break timer is 2.7s, with a stun of 2 seconds.
2.7(4) = 10.8
4.7(4) = 18.8
compared to
2.7(4.12) = 11.124
4.7(4.12) = 19.364
less than 1m increase. At most this would gain about over half a second of time over just not having it equipped. How does that make it stronger than sprint burst? SB provides 4.2m and 4.8m of distance depending on killer speed. How is it not better to bring sprint burst?
SB gives 4.2m of distance over a 3 second period. Can be used multiple times a chase.
4.2/0.12= 30s of running just to gain the same amount of time a SB gives instantly. Not to mention that in those 30s, an SB user probably has like 25% of the timer back down now. so its what, 30s late SB when it comes to chase extension?
Also, in what world is shift W overpowered? its literally throwing. predropping and wasting every pallet when you can milk at least 20s of time from each one is the definition of throwing. Thanks MFT users, now your whole team is stuck with 0 resources.
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that sounds right. No matter how fun it is to use blood pact + power of two with BDT and a buddy, ik its not super fair.
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Sure. I will note that you shouldn't solely believe the maths as you will miss out on a lot of important infomation which isn't as numeric. Some important factors for both sides of the SB vs MFT argument that I didn't cover and should of are:
SB is stronger:
- The distance SB gets can be obatined while healthy. Not only is this better against instadowns but also means the distance can mean you avoid being injured at all, while MFT means you must get injured if you were already healthy to gain any distance.
- SB is a short burst of speed which is better for repositioning, allowing you to get out of deadzones and unsafe tiles with ease (that second one applies more to lithe however). This also makes it better against stealth killers such as wraith as it's more likely to get you to a pallet or vault.
MFT is stronger:
- It has unique perk synergies. Iron will works very well as you stack the same condition allowing you to get the value of both in one. DH also works well as you can use it when you would go down anyway allowing you to get value from both MFT and DH in one chase.
- MFT can make some unsafe loops safe and safe loops very safe so why reposition from an unsafe area when sometimes you could make it safe. Although I don't know too many specific examples I believe shack and TL walls become much safer with this, the latter being an example of a tile which isn't always great usually.
I generally would agree SB is better than MFT as it's safer but still very strong although the potential for MFT is thier and I would say potnetially makes it better than lithe. Finally, needing to be injured for MFT is different than need to get injured for overcome as overcome needs you to be healthy first while MFT doesn't, I believe this was a miss judgement or understanding in your original.
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Either your memory is wrong, or your source is.
In a 24m race:
- SB takes 4.5 seconds (3 seconds at 6m/s, then the remaining 6m at 4 m/s)
- MfT takes 5.82 seconds (going 4.12 m/s the entire time)
- Completely perkless takes 6 seconds.
- A 110% killer takes 5.45 seconds...
MfT is far, far closer to perkless in your example than it is to Sprint burst, which is what you should expect from a 3% increase. SB or other 150% exhaustion perk is the only way to beat the killer in this scenario at all.
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The point isn't the start time you gain.
Is the longer caught up time for you to gain distance.
Normally,in a 24 m chasing.
Killer need to spend 40sec (24/(0.15×4)) to caught up.
With MFT
Killer need to spend 50 sec (24/(0.12×4))to caught up.
And my memory was wrong.
The post i told about is saying that in a 16 m chasing, MFT is 70% strong SB, not 24 m.
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The point isn't the distance you gain from beginning.
Is the distance you gain from the longer chasing time.
In a normal 24m chasing.
It took killer 40 sec(24/(0.15×4)to caught up.
With MFT
It took killer 50 sec (24/(0.12×4)to caught up
With SB
It took killer 50 sec (3+(24+(0.35*4*3))/(0.15*4))to caught up
So yeah,my memory was wrong.
The post is saying that in a 16 m chasing,MFT is a 70% SB not 24 m
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Looping was already a hard to concept to balance when survivors moved at 100%. Now the killer is actively punished for hitting a survivor by providing them a speed boost. That is not fair. +3% at shack isn't fair. +3% in main buildings isn't fair. +3% isn't fair period.
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So good survivors can get good value from this perk, let's nerf it?
Alright, let's nerf Nurse & Blight as well. Because good killers have amazing value from them.
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Thanks for perfectly explaining how broken this perk is, all your text helped me understand this perk shouldn't exist.
Statistically they aren't a problem even in high MMR but eh why not? I mean let's be real, it's literally unbelievable they are not yet nerfed to oblivion.
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No.
First of all.
You don't really need be great player to gain value.
Even if you only use this for shift W you can still gain more than 20% longer distance.
And when longer distances comes to looping.........
It just broken.
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If we look stats, OoO needed buff. If we look stats, Nurse never needed any nerfs. If we look stats, Trapper was just fine.
But this is not the case, you know.
If we are just nerfing something because of high mmr players, then we need to nerf Nurse & Blight as well. If we are going with this way, both sides will get same judgment.
Then "No" to you as well.
You can't nerf only one side. Devs can't risk to favor one side.
Like how you are asking for survivor nerfs, some people will ask killer nerfs as well. And this will happen too. Blight is probably the next one.
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Yeah really, I don't see any problem in actually start penalizing SWF, nerf the base capability of survivors by a lot, nerf blight/nurse, as long as they ACTUALLY do all those things with proper balancing rules.
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Wut?how could you get your conclusion?
I don't really want to bring this to killer vs survivor.
But as a both sides player.
This perk just too ridiculous.
And if you really care about not faver one side.
Then survivor should not get 2 op perk in one patch when killer get trash perks.
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If there is way to nerf SWF without hurting Solo-q, i am all with you.
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I mean it's literally there, BHVR just don't want to "punish people just playing with friends".
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110% Killers have the lower movement speed because they have abilities which make up for it. So they probably should be the least affected by Made for This. (Otherwise you can say that Nurse gets weaker, because Survivors are now even faster compared to her... You know that it is a silly argument, but it is not that different for 110% Killers)
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110 killers aren’t the ones I feel are hurt the most by this. They have some way to hit you from a distance, so they can make some progress. Hag and Trickster will still be weaker because of it, but not too bad.
The killers I think will be hurt the most by this are the 115 M1 killers like Myers, Trapper, and Sadako. And THIS is where the problem with this perk lies. It hinders the already weak killers while having next to next impact on the best killers like Nurse or Blight. 3% against Nurse is nothing, but 3% against Sadako is game changing. If a perk makes weak killers weaker but doesn’t effect the strongest, then it isn’t healthy for the game.
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I feel like thats more telling of killer balance than perk balance. If the perk has a balanced effect on the balanced killers, then its balanced. But since the weaker killers dont have any range or mobility or real chase potential, they actually do get their chasetime increase quite a bit. I think that these killer should just recieve some buffs, idk give the terrible m1 killers 5% or speed or smth
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This is not a problem of the Perk, this is a problem of the respective Killers.
You can have Made for This or remove it - but Myers and Trapper will always be some of the weakest Killers. It is not the Perk which makes them weak. BHVR should not nerf Perks because they are hard for Killers like Trapper or Myers. This would be really lazy balancing instead of taking the time to work on the Killers in question.
(But even if, Trapper will never be as strong as other Killers, because he will always be that Killer who takes a lot of time to trap an area)
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Yeah those killers do need buffs, but BHVR has already come out and said they have no plans to buff Trapper anytime soon so that’s not happening. It’s much easier to nerf a perk than it is to buff almost half the killer roster.
And it’s not balanced for the balanced killers, it’s balanced for the strongest killers.
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I think the main issue is that 20% longer for the killer to catch up with a very tiny requirement and you have the other effect of healing giving endurance is just too much and it limits design space in a gigantic way for other similar perks.
Already for instance you could run this perk with hope and run at 110% speed in endgame which is obviously going to mean that unless your bombing a hook whilst injured no killer is going to catch u except blight/nurse etc. Any comeback potential a killer could have is just gone.
So yeh even if you can argue that the perk is not "OP" it does not mean that it should exist in its current form. Imagine this perk with old DH, it would be busted since u could use the extra speed to run 20% longer and THEN hit the killer with a DH on top of that, yes it disables this perk but you still got huge value. Once again design space limited.
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3 points of MFT that are all equally annoying in their own right.
1) Synergy with other haste perks. MFT + Hope increases the likelihood of getting a hook save and escaping in the endgame plus dragging out chases even more.
2) Synergy with other exhaustion perks. The only exhaustion perks I can think of that doesn’t work with MFT is overcome and Sprint Burst. DH, Lithe and BL still work perfectly fine. When running these perks, MFT acts as a complement by encouraging Survivors to use their exhaustion perk after they are injured. That 3% haste would give them a bit more distance to reach that vault, high ground or loop. Having more leeway to use their exhaustion perk after they are injured means that the Killer is forced to invest more time into the chase. This also hurts the Hit and Run playstyle because Survivors have more time to get to a safe structure even if they are injured. Good loopers have even lesser reason to heal now.
3) I’m surprised that not much people have caught on it yet but the secondary effect of MFT rewards greedy plays. Picking up a slug or healing a unhooked Survivor under the hook while injured could be punished by the Killer in the past, but with this perk, the survivor gets a free health state and the 3% haste.
While healing and medkits were nerfed to counteract most gen regression perks being nerfed, this one perk alone gives Survivors even lesser reason to heal/reset which translates to more time spent on conspicuous actions.
This perk offers too much for just the simple cost of being injured and non exhausted. BHVR left this perk as it is not because they thought it was balanced, they left it so that more people would buy Soma. Unlike Scavenge/Hyperfocus which only applies to gen rushing, MFT can be used almost universally, on Survivors who like chases and Survivors who like to sit on gens.
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If the 2% from Dark Theory isn't a concern then I'm not particularly bothered by 3%. It may have some use when combo'd with Hope, but for a niche endgame build that's completely fine.
I'm more curious about combining it with For The People. Picking up a survivor in front of the killer for a brief Endurance effect to tank a hit.
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Get out of here with all of that sensible talk. This is the Dbd forum. Only doom and gloom are allowed here!
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Nice math in a vacuum, but there are objects such as Windows and Pallets that survivors can interact with to gain even more distance.
They can even run around them, which is called "looping". This perk will help with both reaching said objects before taking a hit, as well as looping, which will greatly extend chases against M1 killers.
The usage rate in 2 weeks will speak for itself. Currently sitting at 18%, but that's cause it is new and good.
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Look for made for this + blood pact, and ask yourself if its balanced. Add hope to hit, and lets see if its balanced in your opinion.
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yeah, please look for once in a blue moon-scenarios.
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Thats an issue with haste stacking, not MFT. you shouldnt be able to stack haste anyways, it limits how many unique haste related perks can be made and forces all of them to have crazy restrictions. The only exceptions to that rule are MFT and BDT, which have been noted as a very busted combo. if haste didnt stack, and just took the highest number and used that, would their be an issue? no.
This problem has always existed, MFT has just made it easier to abuse. But the problem itself isnt MFT. We can easily solve this by removing haste stacking. There should be no scenario where a survivor moves at a consistent 124% speed.
so yeah actually I do still think its balanced. In any of the clips people use to call MFT op hope is always carrying anyways.
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Yes because swf aren't famous for abusing things that break the game right? We will talk after a month or two, and let's see if this combo will be abused or not. In my opinion will be abused, but maybe I'm wrong
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