Do NOT nerf Made For this
This perk is the result of the healing nerfs that the community asked for, a new way of a perk being an Exhaustino perk without actually being one (+ countering exhaustion on its own). It IS a GOOD perk, well designed.
There are so many options to counter it with addons and perks that apply exhaustion, when the meta for one side changes, the other side has to change as well to counter it. Now it's time to use Blood Echo, Fearmonger and such perks. Let the meta shake and have variety, please. This was one of the biggest complains from the comunity for so long, how the meta felt stale and boring for so long. Let this perk shine for a couple of months at least until something gets changed. Stop being scared of adapting to new gameplay styles and changes. The game is way more fun when you try different stuff and have so many options and new perks and builds emerge.
I have played like 15 games since the perk came out as killer, most of them being PLAGUE, who gets everybody injured easily so the perk got to shine, and in only 2 games I struggled against it, so from my experience it's definitely not an issue. Perks are meant to be useful and strong, but mainly fun. Nobody as survivor is going to run Premonition, Deception, Diversion and Dark Sense, the same way as killer nobody is going to run Unrelenting, ZT, Fired Up and Dying Light. Let perks be fun and attractive to use.
If this perk gets nerfed, everybody is going to go back to gen rush builds, and nobody wants that, not even survivors lmao. Please, learn how to play around changed and new stuff, take your time and try your best to enjoy the game. This situation with this perk is a new showcase of the problem being the mentality of some players and not knowing to have fun with what the game is designed around.
Comments
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I have been saying this for so long! As a killer main let me tell you I'm so bored of getting hit with a lithe every chase😭
lets shake it up a little already!
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Exactly! After the Dead Hard nerf (needed in order the shake up the meta), other exhaustion perks have shined more, and now players have another alternative that can be more attractive for some people. There are people who find comfort on Lithe, others on BL, even Smash Hit. With Made For This they got a new concept for exhaustion perks without actually being exhaustion perks, and being countered by actually being exhausted like if they were. We have more variety now than ever in the game, with many strong and different perks and builds and not only one loadout that is "THE loadout" for survivor like it used to be back then. Made For This definitely needs to stay as it is for some months at least.
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Haste effects still need to add contrails akin to the Blight Serum, length dependent on overall haste bonus.
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"Blood echo, fearmonger and such perks"
Just gonna handwave the other truly terrible perks that cause exhaustion? And the fact they blood echo works on like two killers? And that fearmonger's exhaustion is short enough that you can get it back in chase? There aren't viable perk solutions that cause exhaustion. Especially when you've gotta dedicate at least two slots to game stall to counter the insane gen speeds lately.
Yeah, a lot of perks suck. They should be buffed, not overshadowed by yet another S-tier perk that butchers the worst killers in the game. Winning vs it as plague, a high A tier killer doesn't mean anything. She's in a good spot to begin with.
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Can I ask, sincerely, which killers does this perk butcher?
Like, specific examples with reasoning, if you're willing.
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i can think of some. Mainly just sadako and legion though. Sadako will just suffer because she had no chase potential, and legion outside of frenzy will be just an m1 killer dealing with mft.
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Doctor is the worst I've seen. Messes with the already delicate shock timings bad. Dredge second worst, makes connected loops even stronger than they were before. Legion. I could be running blood echo but then I don't have a chase/gen/info perk on a basic killer. Onryo. Greed greed greed vacuum into pallet stun.
I also play clown and knight but I haven't played them since the patch. It feels unfair almost like how old dead hard did. The feeling of getting robbed of a hit you would have made at a pallet or window without the perk in play.
I'm not even saying kill the perk. Just make it conditional in some fashion. Duration like lucky break. Make it generous. Anything.
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Doctor I could see, with the timings. That has to be frustrating, I don't play Doctor often so I wouldn't have seen that.
Can't say I'm all that convinced on the others, though. Heck, I was just playing Legion against three survivors with MFT and it felt fine. The perk gave them an edge, as a chase perk should, but they were hardly uncatchable. I kinda question that a perk "robbing you of a hit" at windows and such necessarily means it's badly designed- isn't that what a perk is meant to do? Give the player who brought it an edge they wouldn't have otherwise had?
If it were every window and pallet that'd be something, but as it stands, it just sounds like the perk does something.
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Yes I tested on Plague because she is the one who gets people injured the easiest way and more consistent, so their perk was active. Blood Echo counters this perk at the source, now it may become more popular because of this new survivor perk and I love that. The game is still at its most balance state and feels good to see changes and perks going up and down. Time to get flexible and try new things instead of the same build on the same killer on repeat, mate!
”Top killers” are going to still perform just fine, don’t you worry! Try to push for the idea of the gap between killer’s strength being smaller instead of trying to blame a survivor perk.
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Ya, and it feels bad. It's frictional and frustrating in a way a game doesn't need to be on a consistent basis. Just like how getting dead harded under a pallet or having to play a guessing game on when the survivor is gonna press E sucks.
It's a PvP title. Your opponents are supposed to stymie you with their perks and abilities. That's fine. What's less fine is when you take an already stressful role and add those little moments of friction consistently throughout a given match. Once or twice is alright. Say ten or more? That's reaching the territory where you're pushing folks away from the role. The survivor equivalent is losing 10% cuz they let go of a gen, or going to second stage on hook because your teammate is looting a chest. But there's not really a 1:1 because the killer is always going to have interaction with survivors than any survivor will with the killer.
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Blood Echo counters this perk at the source, try it for a few games and you’ll see how consistent it is on the killers it’s supposed to work on. There are perks to apply exhaustion in different ways for killers, and for sure they’re working on more new to come with the next killers. Let’s embrace new metas more.
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I'm literally one of the only people you'll ever see running blood echo. It's not consistent even on legion. It's got a hefty cooldown and we'll make it is prevalent enough that'll it'll frequently only proc on one survivor. Then you've gotta find and chase the one survivor it's actually working on. It's really really not a good perk. And like I've already said, those other perks that do exhaustion are terrible and extremely conditional.
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I’m fine with it as long as killers get a similar perk, maybe one that reduces how long it takes to gain bloodlust levels.
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Why should killers have to use one of their 4 perks to counter a total crutch? Nobody uses Blood Echo, because its a crap perk and incredibly situational. We shouldn't have to a accept a busted perk being introduced to shift the meta.
I like its 'shaken up the meta' if you want to call it that, but what I don't like is a killer doing their job I.E injuring and applying pressure gives such a significant buff to survivors. The perk is the definition of a crutch. It is is no way a well designed perk. If it was vice a versa, the killers having a perk that slows survivors by 3 percent when injured, the community would be at outcry. Lets not lie to ourselves and say this is healthy for the game when its not, especially when you see the filth of it with Hope and endgame.
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Legion, Plague are good start.
Any M1 killer does feel it in chase.
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Plague definitely not, she has range. Even without having Corrupt Purge available, it's just M1 looping, so it is a noticeable difference in difficulty but it doesn't butcher her ability to catch them.
Same with Legion. I was playing Legion for a lot of today, and while I did notice a few whiffed window swings that might've been hits otherwise, I can't say I was suddenly rendered impotent and helpless against the awesome might of this new perk. It gave the survivors who had it an edge (or at least, the skilled ones, lol) but it was something I could work around and didn't even affect every chase, let alone every vault.
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Not really every vault, it depends on map of course.
Fact is if survivor knows how to loop well, it's not issue to expend each chase on 20+ sec. You can basically get one or more extra loops around pallet and it's harder to mind game against it.
Plague shouldn't be ranged unless she is using add-ons. Especially with Made for this, which is usually combined with resilience, so even more value.
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Made for this never should have gone to live servers.
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if the kill rates go down significantly in matches with mft, then I assume that a balance change will happen. If the kill rates are unaffected by mft, then the perk will most likely remain unchanged
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That's the problem with the meta though, because the meta has been too strong for years so every perk that has been able to change it has done so because it's overpowered. Just like Made for This is. It was the same thing with Circle of Healing. The meta was the same for forever until that perk got introduced and it completely warped the meta because of how strong and busted it was. It made healing the most efficient it had been in a long time. The only other thing that has changed the meta is the meta perks being nerfed directly, several of which have been.
Anyways, no, MFT is completely unfair. It's fun to use, sure, but it's because it's completely broken. Either one of its two effects would be a really strong perk on its own and this perk gives you both.
As far as counters go like Fearmonger, Blood Echo, etc., you shouldn't be expected to HAVE to have a counter to a perk in order to outplay it. Counters should be nice to have and something you bring because you want to, not something you bring because you feel like you HAVE to. It's not good design and it's not a good argument as to why something isn't overpowered. This is why BT is basekit now. It's ridiculous to expect your opponent to bring a certain perk, killer, item, or addon just to counter something that you may not even have. And that goes for both sides. Before Eruption got nerfed I used to see some killers say "just run Empathy to counter it so you can let go of gens" (which wasn't even a consistent strategy) and it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen.
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Let's make Blood echo basekit, sounds fun.
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I love seeing people say "fearmonger, blood echo, etc....." And just kinda trail off. Because those are the options you have. Every other exhaustion-causing perk is terrible. And even among those two blood echo is horribly inconsistent. Gotta have an injured survivor,gotta hook while they're injured, can't hook during the cooldown. Come on. It's not a viable perk; it's a meme.
As opposed to the mountainous activation requirement of made for this: get injured once. Lol.
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The doctor interaction is hilarious. I have to run nemesis and play with your food on doctor... to use the ability. I would like a killer perk that applies a 1%/2%/3% hindered when chasing an injured survivor please. The secondary effect could be something like Increases Survivors footsteps noise by 30%/40%/50%.
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Sorry, no excuse will in any way makes literal subtle speed hack "fine".
BHVR shouldn't try to mess with survivor movement speed unless that perk is extremely limited, hell they are extremely cautious even when it comes to killer too, game isn't made to tolerate those kind of ridiculous perks.
I wish BHVR to work ASAP and not make old DH shenanigans once again, taking literal years to fix extremely problematic perk.
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They don't have to fix issue with cheaters (haven't seen any for a while tho), when normal survivor can look like cheater.
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Bias Bias and more Bias as much as I say hate repeating myself 1 million times, killers have adds ons and perks to counter made for this and if they dont wanna run them, that is their issue and ill use my favorite example of noed before its slight nerf of showing where its at, its always=do totems, use maps use detectives. So survivors are to run perks to counter something we hate of killer and its not a problem for example run ds/otr(but they are so bandaid and does nothing now with their limiation. Yet when we say things like use fear monger/bait out dead hard its a HUGE problem and we arent suppose to say oh just run x perk and our stuff as usual should get going lol
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Can you name any of the actually useful exhaustion addons/perks? and not the one that is extremely inconsistent or requires high mobility/stealth.
And did you know you don't need any perks or items to break bones, then noed only activates on endgame? your "example" just showed how it's broken... NOED without endgame requirement and not even a hex.
Post edited by fulltonon on4 -
there's a healthy meta and there's made for this.
movement speed should not be tampered with on either side outside of niche situations like endgame (hope) or pwyf with it's extreme conditions mft is dh in disguise it allows Survivors to get away with stuff they normally wouldn't which causes the same feeling of frustration that came from dh (to a lesser extent but still) i promise you Survivors can have good perks without being busted af but bhvr only knows extremes when it comes to Survivor perks (dh - mft - scavenger - coh..etc)
ps:- killers have no reliable anti exaustion addons or perks like people say.
almost all of them are so niche/bad.
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Well, they didn't use it, did they?
Both Noed and Ruin got nerfed quite a lot.
Survivors have 16 perks total, killer has 4.
Increase number of perks for killers and I will gladly play fearmonger each game.
Fearmonger and Blood echo are very limited perks, they are bad for most killers. Fearmonger is basically buff for SB.
So basically your comment: "we didn't want to do something and we want it from other side now".
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Read carefully am talking about overall killers like to justify and tell survivors run x perk for this and that and do this and that, yet killers hate when survivors tell them to do the same. Fear monger is hella annoying and useful, annoying not seeing where a person downed and I that like using lithe cnat use it if am already push in a chase.
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That's because when survivors tell "just run X" it literally doesn't work for majority of times, OTR or DS will be extremely reliable when compared to countering MFT with fearmonger.
Fearmonger isn't a bad perk but just not the answer to MFT, it works really god with SB because survivor has to choose between progressing cooldown or fix the generator, but MFT doesn't have long cooldown so it's always a flat 5 seconds which generally doesn't work without high mobility or stealth.
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Fearmonger is annoying for survivors, but mainly for SoloQ.
It makes 99% SB super easy, so this perk can backfire hard.
5 seconds is not that much, you can easily get rid of it during chase.
Blood echo is just bad. You need injure multiple survivors, you need to hook someone and it has high cool down on top of it.
Using totem hunting perks was suggested for new players, who don't know totem spawns, otherwise it was simply cleanse totems.
What exactly are killers supposed to do against this without using bad perk? Don't injure survivors?
If you want to go with advice playing only top tier killers, then sure, that works.
3-gen defending is going to work too. Tunneling so you can take your time in chase is also good idea.
I wonder how survivors are going to like that...
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Why would anyone run fearmonger to counter MFT when you can run a top 3 killer that counters the perk and doesn't require you to run a non meta perk?
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I think pwyf is best counter to the perk if you want to counter the perk. noed is also good counter but only in the end game.
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Pwyf is not really good perk on most killers.
Noed is not really good counter. They are probably injured if MFT work and also combine it with Hope. I would say MFT is counter against NOED instead.
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So only reliable counter to MFT is a perk that has to find obsession, chase it, then let them escape... after every three hits.
Then survivor don't have to put any work into activating his own perks, hmmm...
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you do not need find obsession. you just get stunned by a pallet. 1 stack of pwyf is all you need to counter-act the perk.
every killer can use it but not every killer can preserve the perk. The most you will stay at is 1 stack but 1 stack is all you need to surpass MFT's effect. your not really putting effort into the perk. your just swing into pallets -> getting stunned -> breaking pallets as you passively gain speed.
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So getting stunned to counter a perk? wouldn't be so bad if it didn't require two slot out of four, even though "getting stunned" is already a 100% survivor dependent and certainly not in control of killers.
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pre-drop pallets counters almost every killer except the top-tier killers that have gameplay at dropped pallets or ignore it if we are talking about the nurse.
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This perk is absolutely unfun to face and should be nerf to oblivion like eruption and CoB/Overcharge was.
its on part with NOED and Hex: ruin in terms of anti-fun factor, way worst than the DH meta we had prior as well.
its just unplayable!
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nobody with over 50 hours in the game calls noed an un-fun perk, literally nobody cares about it + it's on the survivors for not cleansing all the totems
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Yes, it's a welcome to change to the meta.
If everything keeps getting nerfed and nothing buffed in return, we will end up with perk bloat. It is sort of in that spot as it is tbh.
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The perk shouldn't be activated just because you are injured.
Look at MoM or just let it activated when you are deep wounded.
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And who said that ? No one know the kill rates because, guess what, BHVR keep them secrets
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If 3% conditional haste is such a game breaking OP advantage, surely 5-15% is worth 2 perk slots and a little work to activate, no?
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Then why did CoB, Ruin, Noed an every other perk got nerfed?
You just needed exact perk combinations and work to counter it. The hell is this argument?
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I still feel lithe/sprint much more in my games then MfT. Just wait another 3 weeks and most ppl will not use it any more.
When playing survivor - I already swapped back to balanced landing, because it's just better
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Made For This allows survivors to run faster than The Knight's guards (4.12 m/s vs 4.1). His power is made entirely useless against Made For This.
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You don't really use Knight's power to deal damage, though, so the survivors being faster than the guards doesn't really matter that much? They still have to run away, meaning you're still getting them flushed out in the direction you want them to be running.
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