Where is the made for this nerf ?
I mean honestly, when do those devs learn anything ?
Another busted perk, out without any balance changes.
Survivor speed with MFT = 4,12m/s
Killers = 4,6 m/s
To catch up with a survivor 10 meters away, you need 21 seconds. Without MFT it would be 17 seconds.
It is a total of 4 seconds. A survivor using it is impossible to catch if he just runs from safe loops to safe loops.
Another busted perk that killers will have to deal with for months with all 4 survivors using it in every trial.
Do you guys even do the maths BEFORE releasing anything ?
Comments
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Forgot to mention this : what is the point to nerf a perk like DH if you release, 3 months later, a perk that is even stronger than the old DH ?
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Alternatively, Killers could just use their brain and/or their power to catch Survivors, instead of following their exact pathing and rely on math to win them the game.
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Ye of course, in the killer roster all killers have a power to close up distance with the survivors 😂
Maybe devs could stop hating the killer players and think about their enjoyment of the game instead of giving the over-broken perks to survivors :)
And FYI, a safe loop is a loop where there is no mindgame and guess what, the game is full of safe loop.
Just imagine a perk that, after 1 successfull hit on a survivor, you get a 3% speedboost (as killer) everytime you chase this survivor :). I guess you would hate it isn't it ?
DbD is all about timing and a perks as made for this break all timings :
- the corner you could not reach ? No worry, MFT is here and now you can reach it
- the pallet you could not reach ? MFT
- the window you could not reach ? MFT
- you have lithe ? no worry MFT stacks with it
In DbD, everytime you reach a pallet or a window, it adds 20 seconds time of free chase. MFT grants you the possibility to reach those pallets/windows maybe at least 2 times more for each survivor. If all 4 have MFT, it is just 160 seconds of free chase time, no skill involved, just hold W.
The perk is so strong that the synergie with gen rush perks is insane :
- it is better to stay injured as with the sped boost you can hold a killer as long as if you had 2 health states -> you save healing time that you then use to gen rush
- resilience activated the whole game (faster vault speed as well, increasing even more the global faster everything efficiency)
- prove thyself
In one week, all trials will be composed of 4 MFT survivors.
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One thought I had was, why not grant the speed boost if the killer chasing you is also benefiting from a haste boost? Just make it a haste counter. I'd argue you could even bump it up to 4% if that was the case. That way M1 killers aren't hit so hard by it unless they run haste.
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Problem with that is that MFT is an issue with loops/pallets, not running in a straight line. The math helps with both cases.
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If you want to cry for free handouts instead of learning how to handle the challenges the game throws at you, you'll never be good at the game. Period.
Remind me, were we calling these "safe loops" BEFORE or AFTER the release of MFT? And if BEFORE, how has MFT made them any safer?
Have you heard of Play With Your Food? Do you know how much Haste that can grant?
Then you just go and pull out random numbers, as if pallet economy, dead zones, and mindgames aren't a thing.
...all while pretending that you are forced to play a Killer who does not have a counter to MFT.
I mean come on man... just admit that you're not that great at the game, you have no interest in becoming better at the game, and you feel you deserve to beat people who are better than you at the game.
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Idk, I haven’t really had any issues with it.
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Pwyf loses a stack every single swing you make, and requires finding then losing the obsession to gain stacks, and caps at 3. I'm sorry but that is not a valid counter for a perk that's only conditions are "dont bring sprint burst" and "be injured." PWYF has some very niche builds it is good with (like tombstone myers) but its certainly not a hard counter to MfT
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Cause from loops to loops you are running straight.
Doing the maths with a straight chase is actually the most defavorable situation for the survivors. Fact that to catch up a surv 5 meters away from you needs 2 extra seconds with MFT shows that with those 2 seconds you can reach a pallet/window that you could not reach without the perk.
Adding safe loops and safe windows in between just favors the survivor way more than a straight line.
Next time think twice before writing something cause it is pure logic.
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Add to this the fact that chasing the obession to gain a stack = loosing time.
Well that KayTwoAyy might be a new player or, as it looks like he likes to call other ppls bad players, a really bad player that is in denial regarding its skill level.
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"Come on man, you are a terrible player, use mindgame at safe loop"
fait pour ça + espoir sur le PTB...putain : r/deadbydaylight (reddit.com)
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They're probably collecting data to see how much mft REALLY affects kill rates. Maybe it's just another hyper focus situation where the perk looks strong on paper but doesn't really influence kill rates enough to warrant a nerf
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LT are ultra safe with more than half the killers
Pallet/window jungle gym
Shack
Big pallet tiles
and if you mix loops without dropping the pallet they are even safer. L2P before calling other ppl noobs. You obviously do not know what you are talking about or you have never faced good survivors.
Do you even know what choke points are ? I guess not :)
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Another guy spitting its venum with any argument :)
Always the same coming and calling others noobs or bad players. Actually why the moderators do not ban ppl with your behavior ?
LT
Shack
Pallet/window jungle gym (jungle gym 2)
Big pallet loop tiles
And if you combine those loops together without dropping the pallet they are even safer.
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
Honestly surprised someone with your experience would downplay PWYF like that.
There is no escaping a Killer with 15% Haste. You just lose, and you do so because the Killer looked at your teammate 3 times and walked away. You don't need to be running a gimmicky Tombstone Myers build to make PWYF look strong, that's just pouring salt on the wound.
It's comical that you would send this to me, thinking it is some sort of "smoking gun." Survivor in that video is running a perk that grants them a 3% Haste and a perk that grants them a 7% Haste, and you honestly want me to believe the perk that grants the 3% Haste is the problem? Get real.
Shall I send you all the clips in which I've seen Killers dunk on Survivors running MFT? Or would you prefer I just walk away from this thread?
Because I honestly couldn't care less if BHVR nerfed this perk into the ground. It's just a travesty watching people complain about game balance whilst displaying a novice-level understanding of gameplay.
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XD
Post edited by KayTwoAyy on0 -
They are better than me by using a perk? Interesting theory...
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Not what I said, but knock yourself out with that conclusion. Misrepresentation makes for great discussions, am I right?
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Oh right, because going for "don't play killer who can't counter a meta perk" is such a great point for a discussion...
"Use a bad perk to counter perk that survivors might have" Another nice point, I wish survivors knew this before Ruin and noed were nerfed.
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At least 75% of the Killer roster has a power that says "so what?" to 3% Haste.
If you are someone who is struggling against MFT and you are playing a Killer that is weak against MFT, what is so controversial about advising someone to play a Killer that is less affected by MFT?
Again... if you insist on playing a Killer that struggles to catch a Hasted survivor, what is so controversial about advising someone to use a perk that gives the Killer Haste?
This isn't rocket science.
When faced with a challenge, you can either adapt, evolve, or lose.
ADAPT: Rather than learning to improve, play a Killer that has an easier time against MFT.
EVOLVE: Rather than playing an easier Killer, learn how to maximize the one you're already playing.
LOSE: Do nothing reap what you sow.
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Please, tell my how I can use my brain to catch up to a survivor holding W?
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Or I can just tunnel them out... Does it count as adapt?
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I'll remember this next time I slug
It's the survivors playing survivors who are weak to slugging
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survivors ALWAYS have to be focal point since that's where the money comes in. Every patch they feel stronger than the killer and it's entirely aggravating and Ludacris at this point, the hand hold experience continues with people who literally can't play a simple game like this one. Crap on killers instead!
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Because it will work BETTER in those situations...?
Running straight is always the WORST case scenario in chasing for survivors, and it is ALREADY strong enough there, do you seriously believe it will somehow work worse in tiles?
Ah then devs probably should stop caring kill rates, because "kill rate" has nothing to do with game health.
Rancor facecamp bubba is not common or anything and doesn't really affect kill rates in any way, it's not like they are not unhealthy.
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For starters, don't chase them. Unless you have the mobility to catch up with them, it's fruitless whether they are running MFT or not. Follow them long enough to push them off whatever gen they were on, break line of sight if able, and then peel to another gen/survivor.
Unless they are taking you straight towards a 3-gen or an area you know multiple Survivors will be in, you're wasting your time following any Survivor holding W across the map IF you are not also using that opportunity to gain intel about what gens are being worked on and where other Survivors are located.
If they heal, they either burned a limited resource (medkit) or you just learned about the location of a 2nd Survivor--valuable intel--and you delayed them from completing the objective. If they don't heal, they are vulnerable the next time you get the drop on them. Since you're not a mobility Killer, you most likely are Stealth or Anti-Loop, both of which will allow you to make short work of an injured survivor sitting on a gen.
Would fall under evolve.
Okay, and? Did I whine to you about slugging recently or something? I don't get it...
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So summary is you want killers do what most survivors hate.
Tunnel, slug, camp, 3-gen and play only high tier killers.
Just tryhard as much as you can to counter a single perk. Seems right...
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For starters, don't chase them. Unless you have the mobility to catch up with them, it's fruitless whether they are running MFT or not. Follow them long enough to push them off whatever gen they were on, break line of sight if able, and then peel to another gen/survivor.
So you want me to go full skull merchant than?
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The more y'all respond, the more I think you've never played DBD and only watch content creators play it.
If both of these responses are genuine, with serious consideration of the concepts I've brought forward, than MFT is just one giant skill issue.
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I just like a paradox that your advice is to do things survivors hate.
Are you trying to say survivors don't cry about those things? I see multiple posts about killer defending gens and "holding game hostage".
Which is what you advised against hold W.
I play mainly Legion, Wraith, Skull merchant, Knight. Overall M1 killers, so I feel MFT quite a lot.
I got back to Oni because of it, don't really mind them staying injured...
I simply don't feel like perk that is best against weak killers is good design.
It's same as perk that focus soloQ imo. I find both problematic.
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How is it a paradox? This discussion has not concerned itself in any way, shape, or form with what is fun or enjoyable.
You are either over-simplifying my advice, or failing to recognize the viable strategies a Killer can employ beyond the realm of "hold W and follow a Survivor until Killer A traveling at X speed manages to catch Survivor B traveling at Y speed." Hence my belief that there is a skill issue at play here.
You want my advice for how to play your mains?
Legion
Add-Ons: Etched Ruler & Legion Pin (alt. Defaced Smiley Pin or Stab Wounds)
Perks: Hysteria, Genetic Limits, & your choice of 2 perks
Win Condition: Take advantage of LOS blockers and misdirection to leverage the Oblivious status effect, and down unsuspecting Survivors when they believe you are not nearby. DO NOT commit to chase unless all Survivors are injured, you can quickly force pallet drops, or you have lethal frenzy.
Wraith
Add-Ons: Windstorm & Boneclapper (alt. Coxcombed Clapper, Swift Hunt, or All Seeing)
Perks: Fearmonger, Sloppy Butcher*, Nurse's, & perk of your choice
*Can replace Sloppy with Blind Warrior Add-On
Win Condition: Hit N' Run early game, unless you know you can down someone quickly--conditioning the Survivors to believe you leave just as soon as you appear. Mid-to-late game injure survivors, cloak, then stay nearby and ambush them when they drop guard. DO NOT commit to any chase that won't result in destroying a god pallet or a quick down.
SM & Knight
I can't advise you on either of these two killers, as I played both to adept and then never again. From what I know about them, however, they aren't chase Killers so they don't really concern themselves with MFT. They both have Haste add-ons, which I assume are must picks already.
Ghost Face, Myers, and Oni are my mains. I truly believe all 3 of them have been buffed by all of the changes/updates that have been put out this past year. Ghost Face especially, considering he just received a literal buff--Killer has never been easier for GF.
These aren't "the best Killers" by any means, but they all have things in their kit that allow them to bypass MFT.
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That Legion build is really bad. Neither of those perks work if survivors won't heal, which is how they should play against Legion. So not only I lose most of my power, but also play with 2 perks.
Wraith: nurses calling and sloppy are generic, so it will work for sure. Fearmonger is kinda meh, but it can work to actually counter SB against sneak attacks.
I don't really have problem with Wraith tho, I just go for hit&run and most survivors can't handle it.
Probably most affected for me are Legion, Skull merchant and Doctor.
Legion and Skull merchant have low lethality, but both of them have good 3-gen, which is going to get nerfed in future.
Doctor is really bad now. You get slow downed quite a lot with your power, so MFT is even better.
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Sure, I wouldn't complain about losing as Legion. Good survivors who know how to counter him are hell. If they take hits in mending state, they can completely deny my power.
But simply staying injured is not really difficult and MFT, resilience makes that strategy even easier.
You don't need to be that good for it.
Histeria works only if you injure them, which is highly limited. You basically give survivors more reason to stay injured and counter your power.
As long MFT is a thing, Legion and skull merchant basically have no chance to actively chase survivors, it's going to waste too much time.
So only counter is either tunnel someone out of the game fast, or hold 3-gen.
Both Legion and Merchant are good at holding 3-gen, issue is BHVR already said they are going to make changes against 3-gen, so I don't know how long it will work. But there will be simply more tunneling because of that.
On reality I don't think MFT is that strong alone, but in correct build it is meta perk for sure.
I still consider am issue that most affected killers are weak already, they don't really need to get even worse because of meta perk.
MFT for me is an equivalent of Eruption. Perk wasn't that good compare to others, but it was mainly soloQ stomper, which is not good thing imo. Same for MFT.
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I had super quick players last night with no speed perks. I guess the hackers think they have some cover now because of MFT.
Maybe events bring more of them out because it's not been a massive problem lately but last night was bad.
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Thats literally what 90% of the killer players already do
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Well, now you can see why...
You will see tunneling until there is reason to focus multiple survivors.
They are going to nerf camping and 3-gen, so you should prepare for even more tunneling.
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I'm just saying this behaviour has nothing to do with made for this. You could buff killer to 80% killrate and people would still tunnel and camp etc.
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Tunneling won't be fixed with killer specific changes. You need core gameplay incestives. Nerfing every other playstyle is not going to help for sure.
Least tunneling was during BBQ, pop, ruin meta. Killers had to leave hook and wanted focus different survivors.
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Ye instead of rethinking the global settings of the game, they try to forbid camping (and tunneling then). On my side, i have the BP bonus at 100% on the survivor side the whole day, there are less and less killers playing but hey let's destroy their gameplay more and more.
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If you have 100% BP bonus on survivors, then there is not enough survivors. Didn't you mean killer?
For me it's afternoon 100% BP for survivors and since like 8 PM it's 100% for killers.
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Nope.
We clearly saw it after the gen regression nerf, tunneling & camping is way more used today than before the nerf.
Removing every other playstyle fromkiller players hase just left one viable option : tunneling out of the game a survivor asap.
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Ye my bad 😂
on killers*
I just get the 100% on the survivors side since the masquerade event (easier to get the masks i guess).
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As a Sadako main I have to chime in and agree with this.
I used to run builds focused around targeting different survivors. MFT completely ruins it, among many other things Sadako has like the lullaby and visual terror radius. I used to be able to work around the latter with precision chases at loops and managed downs before pallets/vaults but MFT guarantees an escape for them now, and guarantees a chain loop with any minor mistake made on either part.
Now I'm playing more Nurse or running Knock Out builds on M1 killers in general.
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I'm stopping to play killer till they nerf it.
It is unbearable and shifting way too much the balance towards the survivors. The survivors were already OP and they get even more OP perks while killers just receive nerfs after nerfs.
7 years straight of being forced to deal with OP things the survivors receive.
When i play survivors (i'm a 50/50 player) i escap 70% of the time in soloQ, 90% in SWFs. And the devs are happy of the current kill rate/state of the game, i'm wondering where they get their stats cuase it is not my experience at all.
And when my friends use MFT now... it takes ages for the killers to down them...
After all those fails from BHVR, i cannot believe they still continue to release such broken perk without thinking twice about it, what is the PTB's point then if you wait for the Live stats to fix your balance ?
Can we actually get answers from the devs ? This is also boring that they are most of the time totally quiet...
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There's nothing more to add at the moment, as we are still monitoring feedback and keeping an eye on the perk and its effects on gameplay. If there is more to share regarding Made for This, our official platforms will be the best place to see it. Devs also cannot reply to everything, and at the risk of sounding like a broken bee, we do read everything.
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How do you monitor the effect of a perk when pretty much 100% of the killers are camping and tunneling to still get 4k ?
The dev team does not understand that killers are using cheap mechanics to stil lget 4k and so the stats are irrevelent to show the balance of the game ?
If 100% of the killers are tunneling and then get a 4k, but are unable to get more than 1k if they do not tunnel, is the game balanced ? NO
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You really called LT walls ultra safe and expect people to take your argument on perk balance seriously 😆
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All-seeing Mod could be next killer.
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You are aware the best case scenario for Killers is a survivor in a dead zone running in a straight line with no obstacles right?
Killers have a larger hitbox that can't get around corners as easily, so turning around corners and vaulting windows/pallets is how survivors can mitigate their lower speed to help maintain distance... if you make the difference between movement speeds smaller, you mitigate the primary weakness the survivor has and amplify all these strengths...
The killers answer to all of this is mind gaming, and tricking the survivor to taking a bad vault or throw pallets at the wrong time... but mind games go both ways... and because everything gets better with MFT, the mind gaming potential of survivor is stronger too. It even makes it easier to get away with just leaving the tile completely and head to a new tile while the killer bamboozles themselves.
I'm really not sure I understand your argument... ofc the raw maths for a straight line is relevant for all other interactions... it makes them even stronger...
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So far I've had no issues (or another Exhaustion perk would have served the Survs better) with MfT as Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Nurse, Myers, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Legion, Ghosty, Demo, Oni, Mister Yeehaw, PH, Blight, Nemmy, Artist, Onion Ring, Dredge, Weskin' Time, SM, or Singularity. Of the ones unlisted I haven't tried them (with an opposing MfT) or are in the difficulties category listed below.
Huntress is a mixed bag, as snipes are punished, but close multi-hits are further rewarded (they don't have any other Exhaustion perk to save them). Doctor using his power is legit unplayable, he slows himself down far far far too much to get value against MfT, and you just have to brainlessly hold-W instead. Doc can only use his power to force death corners (enter room with window and dropped pallet, shock so they can't vault either). Technically as Mister Yeehaw a No Mither mad chad pre-ran from a mile away, but then she wasn't doing gens, so it made her more scared and helped me more than hurt me, even if she didn't bring No Mither.
So yeah I figure only Doc mains have room to complain, but a simple fix would have his shock work like Wesker's lag grab at vaults, and teleport Survivors backwards. It wouldn't be fun or fair (just like Wesker when he gets those bugged/lag hits), but it would make the Killer functional in the modern landscape. To be fair I have a relatively small sample size with each of the Killers listed above, but in most cases a Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Dead Hard instead of MfT would have served them better in my matches as Killer. Technically yes, you can run DH + MfT, but that is similar to using Botany+Desperate Measures, and is better for meme builds than actual value.
The only MfT nerf I would agree with is removing the Endurance from this perk and putting it on something like Buckle Up or a new perk instead. The current state has it legit be 2 perks in 1, and it has no right to do so. At least other multi-purpose/value perks have more reasonable conditionals (eg. OTR on unhook).
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