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Pop is WAY too strong now. Mainly in solo Q.
I think killers still haven't noticed how broken pop can be. The regression is way too much, mainly in solo Q. Just if you kick 4 or 5 gens, that means survivors have to do already 7 gens worth of progress to escape (because after the kick it will keep regressing if nobody is attending it, which punishes solo Q a lot) , And combined with other gen kick meta??? Math just doesn't add up.
During the last gens it's unbearable, mainly if the killer has already removed a survivor from the match. It's a lost war of attrition.
Compare it to pain res (it was the same problem pain res had, when it became unbearable by the end game), now it's balanced, 1 hook per survivor, that's it.
I'd give pop tokens, like 5 or 6 tokens max. Being unlimited means that by the last gen, when there's two or three survivors left, with no pallets on the map, they already had to like 7 or 8 gens worth of progress. And completing that last two gens when few survivors are left is a lost battle.
I hope you reconsider this buff, and I hope killers still don't notice how broken it has become.
Comments
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PGTW isnt broken. It has a strong effect now because it has a hard activation requirement. The counter to pop is to just not go down, it only gets value if you get hooked. Also split up on gens he can only kick one. It already has a hard limit, the amount of hooks you get. If the survivors are better than you you get less value. If the killers better, he gets more value. If hes pressuring people off of gens he gets less regression. It does a lot in an equally matched game, less in games where you stomp, and a great amount if you are getting stomped (not that one pop will turn it around). Its only remotely broken when tunneling, like you said when someones out early. Something the devs are already looking in to.
Also, pain resonance wasnt an issue either. it was very balanced. it rewarded good play (quick chases and hooks) with strong regression. if you were snowballing hard you got lots of value, something survivors could prevent by being skilled themselves. Which leads into it punishing bad survivor play. Like PGTW, it does a lot more if you are a lot better than them. Only broken with tunneling which is why it got nerfed.
honestly once tunnelings a non issue I want them both reverted to their og forms.
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"The counter to pop is to just not go down"
Oh, it was that easy? I didn't know that, thanks. I'll tell my solo Q teammates that next time. I can't believe I didn't think of that before.
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wow, bad teammates ae giving the killer pressure and perk value! So unheard of! This means PGTW is overpowered and has no counterplay because players are bad. I never knew soloQ controlled balance!
not PGTWs fault your teammates suck.
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I've read people like you already, a million times, you're all the same with your short minded answers.
DS needs rework: jUsT sLuG!!!
Dead hard needs rework: jUsT bAiT iT!!!!
Pop needs to be reworked: jUsT dOnT gO dOwN!!!!
Guess what? I was right about DS, dead hard, call of brine + overcharge, pain res, and more. I don't come here to cry because I lose a match, I KNOW when things don't add up, I've been playing this game long enough and I was right every single time. Pop is the next example, just wait and see.
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Behold! Making assumptions with little to no basis!
I agree DS needed a rework. Dead hard was the most broken uncounterable BS for WAY TOO LONG. But heres the thing about PGTW, its nothing like either of those perks. It isnt skilless, its not uncounterable, it doesnt reward you for losing and is overall very well designed. My point wasnt " DOI STOOPID JUST DONT LOSE!!11!!1!11!". Its nothing like the complete BS argument for old dh of "just wait it out" that showed a complete lack of game understanding. THERE IS STUFF YOU CAN DO ABOUT PGTW. Namely, being better than the killer is! Having more skill! If you dont have more skill than them, then why should you be able to negate a skill based perk??? You shouldn't, pretty simple. Should we nerf adrenaline? Once it pops you cant do much in a chase. Except JuSt DOwN them EaRLyEr!!!! oh wait, except you didnt go down because you made skillful plays so you got adrenaline value. It kind of seems like skillful plays should be rewarded with strong effects!
I KNOW when things dont add up!
And I don't? This statement just screams "I'm smarter than you, I know when somethings up and you clearly don't! Bet you though DS and DH were balanced too!" Everyones welcome to their opinion, but saying your opinion is better isnt an argument. its just stupid.
The level of strawmanning is unmatched. Whats that? A perk that rewards getting downs is countered by prolonging that? Which takes skill to do? Nah, your just saying that you should just stop losing and git gud! Like shut up. if you cant understand that getting hooks is based on both sides skill compared to each other, and you being better than the killer is in chase is a counter to a perk that rewards the reverse, thats on you. its not a hard concept. Its the exact same concept with adrenaline, it rewards you being good at the game and not dying thus far with a massive reward. You basically get an instant chase win, lots more safety bc heal, and faster gate opening bc speed gets you there. But guess what! That only happens IF YOU ARE SKILLED AND DONT DIE. Kind of like how PGTW is only powerful IF YOU ARE SKILLED AND GET HOOKS CONSISTENTLY. Take those two requirements and see how they dont coexist? because they counter each other. If the killers better than you, he gets PGTW value. Which he should if he is the better player. The only possible arguments you can make is that its too good with tunneling (like every strong perk in the game) and that soloQ cant counter it.
- Oh look. Tunnelings an issue. I never could have foreseen this. Its almost like the game is only fair when people are playing fairly.. and that basekit BT exists. And OTR. And SB. And bad mad RNG. Tunneling someone with OTR SB is just a bad idea if they have decent teammates sitting on gens. The devs are constantly working on tunneling, they've said this time and time again. Did you miss when they announcement campings getting straight up removed? They clearly hear our voices and are working on solutions. Do you still think that PGTW is op in a match where the killer is wesker, on family residence, where everyones running meta, the killers not tunneling, and everyones of equal skill? If you say yes, then you are just wrong.
- Oh look. SoloQ teammates are bad at the game. This loss must be entirely the fault of PGTW, and not the teammates to bad at the game to not go down in 20 seconds. Its almost like bad players lose the game for their team.
You can't argue that PGTW is overpowered sensibly. most often it'll get what, 17% regression? 25%? About 20s overall? How much time does the average chase take hmmm..... about 48s. So they played well, got the down, got the hook, knew which gen they needed to kick, spent the time to walk there and probably ignore anything else bc timer, then kick it. You still get a net gain. Unless regression is severely outweighing progression in chases theres not an issue. Thats why the gen kick meta was so broken, because not only did overbrine regress way too much, eruption could get you 40s of slowdown on infinite gens on unlimited survivors an unlimited number of times! And guess what? it got killed, every single perk from that meta is D-tier now. And pain res? a fairly powerful perk that rewarded skill and punished lack of it? Nerfed, because tunneling made it into an overpowered monster. The same goes for survivor, all the broken stuff is pretty much gone now. Med kits are gone, DH is gone, ds is balanced, CoH is balanced. All thats really left is some maps.
You cant seriously be calling PGTW overpowered. It just doesnt add up. If overbrine was stronger, and people were still able to escape and win consistently despite its strength, then how is PGTW better?
I just cant take you seriously. You're just a soloQ player who thinks soloQ teammates and matchmaking reflect on the entirety of balance. They don't.
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I disagree... mainly since I use Blast Mine.
Let them kick my Generator. They take my progress, I take their eye retinas.
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Also goes well with wiretap
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1) you can't blast mine every generator.
2) the rate of your blast mine is lower than the rate of a pop
3) it's a 5 second stun and then what? how many blast mines in a game? 3? that's 15 seconds against 2 or 3 extra gens worth of time.
Useless solution.
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Cool, unfortunately I literally do not care. I like Blast Mine, it's funny, and I want people to kick my Generators.
Pop Goes is fine the way it is either way, coming from someone who plays SoloQ a lot, their are far more problematic/frustrating things in the game than PGTW.
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Good for you if you like blast mine, what doesn't make sense is why you bring it up on a thread about PGTW. It's unrelated, it's not even a counter, you just felt like bringing it up because you like the perk I guess.
And "there are worse things" is whataboutism. There isn't only ONE developer changing the game, the fact that other things are worse doesn't mean Pop is ok.
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Well... not entirely unrelated... PGTW does have a timer, and Blast Mine has prevented a few PGTW kicks on Generators, so it's not entirely useless. I was just stating that Im fine with the current meta, I do not see much issue in it.
Killers are rewarded by hooking Survivor using SH:PR and PGTW, this is all Ive wanted for a really long time seeing how we the Call of Brine, Eruption, and Overcharge meta was obnoxious. And with SH:PR and PGTW, they get strong early regression but seemingly tend to suffer later in the match.
Also Im not attempting to use "whataboutism" as an argument, my apologies, but I personally just have no issue with PGTW in it's current state. Killers are progressing the game, and matches feel normal for once in awhile, dare I even say "fun".
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just take blast mine with you, it will easily eat up 1/4s of PGTW duration.
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DS: just slug.
Dead Hard: just bait it.
Pop: Just take blast mine.
Yep, everything is so easy in this game, I don't even know why devs bother rebalancing perks.
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Huh? you don't even need to do it, just being good at chase or simply finishing gen quick can also work, just that blast mine kinda works on extremely bad survivors too.
If you seriously thinks those perks are equivalent, you are just being ridiculous.
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No it isnt
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Pop is not really bad for the game.
It forces killer to leave hook -> kick gen.
It's also weaker than used to be. 30% of current progress is overall way worse than 25% of maximum progress.
Almost all regression perks got nerfed and you still complain? You really like to get tunneled, don't you?
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Current version of POP is fine. It's a reward for good chases. Without perks like current POP - all you have to do is to sit on a gen far away from anyone else - you don't need to chase. You can quickly go down and still win - so long as killer has to walk a lot, is M1 killer and can't disturb multiple survivors. 30% of current progress is basically counter to it which is healthy.
SoloQ on the other hand is in terrible state. But fixing soloQ by making killer terrible as well is not exactly the best solution in my opinion. It would be much better to fix matchmaking (lower skill difference between survivors so that there's not 1 extremely less skilled player) and provide more info (like perk loadout in lobby - with possibility to hide it/misannounce it for those people that want to do their "take only no mither" challenge).
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Pops counter isn’t to not get downed, but to get downed away from gens being worked on, such that it makes for an easier safe unhook if the Killer beelines to a generator to kick it.
Though I could certainly see it getting the Tinkerer treatment while getting changed to a flat percent.
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PGTW is a good perk, not overpowered or oppressing, and it actually rewards killers for following the intended progression of the game (hooking survivors instead of slugging). You should try Blast Mine + Repressed Alliance if you struggle against PGTW, it's a cute combo against this perk. Cheers! :)
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That would be so useless.
It would be straight worse pain resonance.
Pop is fine, it's already nerfed. There is no need for more.
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