Wesker should receive a nerf and a buff to his power to limit tunneling.
Maybe I'm getting unlucky, but every two or three Weskers I face seem to tunnel. And I don't mean generic tunneling where there is one gen left and they're trying to get a survivor killed to try and turn the game around. I mean doing it at five gens, literally ignoring other injured Survivors trying to bodyblock and even Survivors getting grabbed by his bound dashes just to get the one particular survivor out.
Wesker is a balanced killer, but sometimes killers do need changes for the fun of the game, therefore I'm suggesting that his infection doesn't passively go up during the chase. I believe this change would reduce tunneling, or atleast the effectiveness of it, as survivors upon being unhooked will eventually reach max infection if the killer truly wants to tunnel them out in current dbd, while this change would mean it becomes tougher to tunnel.
This would be a pretty hefty nerf, so to try and buff him in the process I'd suggest the infection required for survivors to become fully infected be reduced or successful bound attacks apply a great percentage of infection to them. Alternatively the passive infection be increased to compensate.
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If I wanted a buff to Wesker; maybe make it possible to slam survivors on the ground instead of agaisnt the wall; as a action button once he grabs a Survivor. (As for some maps like Coldwich farm with big open corn fields; there is less place to collide a Survivor agaisnt the wall; so map dependant)
For nerf to compensate for this buff, yeah maybe slower and no progressive on infection when in chase or in terror radius. If the killer is not actively chasing the infectious survivors, they have a slower bar then normal; in chase the infection stops unless a specific interaction is done like vault a window, dropping a pallet. Etc.
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I think if the slamming against the floor were to happen then survivors would have to make slightly more distance from being injured to compensate as Wesker would then be guaranteed a hit in every area basically.
The vaulting and pallet dropping idea for increasing infection also works opposed to the straight up removal of gaining infection in chase like I suggested and I'd be down to watch that play out in a PTB.
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I think slamming is more practical balance as the Survivors will be able to get the speed boost and make some distance while wesker needs to be slowdown and recover his ability for a bit. With the regular tossing and throwing, you can zone Survivors if you needed to in specific parts of the map. Especially in area with less to no pallets or safety. The ground slam is a optional, but also a quick time if the killer isn't quick enough to time their button before the tossing animation is done after a successful grab.
As for the slowdown, it pretty simple... if the Survivors with infection is far around from the terror radius; the infection will have the fastest (normal rate) of passively gaining infection. Once in the terror radius, the rate is significantly reduced in half; as the Survivors is hiding and keeping their distance. Once chase is active, the rate is stopped; and can last forever; until the Killer abandoned chase or.. if the Survivors is engaging in any form of interaction such as vaulting a window/pallet dropping/ etc. I don't know the rate in which the infection is gain, but it can be as simple as 1/8 of the bar per interaction. Being long chase, and using many pallet and windows will result in being completely infection and be hindered making it far easier for the killer to catch up.
If we need to add one more little buff; a Survivor carrying a first spray can spray and run at the same time; but also get slightly hinder or simply cannot perform any vaults/pallet drops while spraying. To make it easier for the survivor to cleansed themselves while in chase.
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For the buff you can just make his Leather Gloves and maybe Loose Crank addons basekit, and then make the infection not go up after getting unhooked until the survivor makes the conspicuous action.
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Oh that makes sense for the slamming. I was thinking about it a completely different way, however would be curious to see that as a buff. I can't see anyone complaining as his power has counterplay so this wouldn't make too big for a deal.
Didn't realise you meant being within the terror radius for when survivors gain less infection but that change also would go a long way into anti-tunneling. However I'd only be down for that if Wesker has the interaction infection added to him otherwise I fear it could at times be too much.
As for the last idea, I can't see why that would be problematic once survivors move slower and can't interact while spraying. It would also indirectly buff his Red Herb add on which I would like to see.
I feel like that wouldn't be enough for him. While both are up there with his best add ons, I would like it if they gave love to the infection side specifically if they were also taking away from it with the changes I suggested.
As for the conspicuous action idea, that'd probably work much more than my idea, although I do fear healing at hook could make it somewhat problematic.
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that is my play-style on Wesker. Wesker's chase around loops and obstacles is too weak at base-kit if you do not use his hug tech exploit/glitch. He also cannot hit anyone with his pallet vaulting at loops. he moves way too slow and is too easy to LOS. He needs more base-kit chase potencial for his infection to get changed. Allow Wesker to vault pallets without canceling his ability then I could see infection getting changed.
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This is a recent development with all killers, not just Wesker as the Event makes survivors genrush to get the crown, as they are only obtainable if EGC starts. For the killer it doesn't really matter, they will get it by just playing. But if you are sick seeing 3 PT, Deja Vu or similar every match and getting maybe 3 hooks until all gens are completed if you don't tunnel from the start then of course you do that. Sure Wesker can do it easier but I guess the only reason you are complaining about him only, is that you encounter him more than a PyH who can do it even better but is rarely played.
It is not good to nerf a single killer because of a global trend. I see lots of killer tunnel or camp atm because matches are so fast. Jesus Christ I played a match of Condemned Sadako just to have a normal match length again lol.... And even with all the slugging everyone was happy because all got 40k or more.
Back to the topic. As a Wesker main I have to admit that there are scumbags out there who use Uroboros to tunnel similarly to the people who camp with Bubba. I would not nerf Wesker like you suggested. That would be too harsh.
Edit: [I forgot to mention that if you stop the infection going up IN CHASE the killer can just moonwalk or look down while following you without getting into chase. That was a problem with Legion when they came out. So this would be a really bad idea.]
A normal chase will almost never result in a full infection as it takes a looong time and you should have left that survivor before to spread pressure. The real problem is that, especially if you get to grabs, the infection is at 50% on the hook, making it very easy to get the - 8% debuff after the unhook. Also spraying yourself shows you to the killer, leaving you very vulnerable if Wesker is unoccupied or far away. To lessen this problem, I have 2 ideas which could be combined if needed.
1) Infection on hook is always set to 1% instead of 50%. This way the Survivors still need to use the spray which is a lot easier with the 7.0.0 update, but they have a LOOOOONG time in chase until the debuff hits them, even when using OTR, BT, MFT or DH. It also leaves enough time to heal before having to spray. Again: if you tunnel that long, gens will get done.
2) killer instinct upon spraying is removed. This makes it easier to spray even if you are close to Wesker. And it would finally give Helicopter Stick a reason to exist too.
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How is Wesker tunneling more than any other Killer? Why does this merit a nerf on Wesker?
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It doesn't, most in this community are just scrubs.
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Take video conference, hit survivor as he's being unhooked (animation lock) and enjoy free 8% debuff = end of chase really quickly....
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Wesker's power promotes tunneling. Need I say more?
Other than the fact that his power promotes tunneling but whatever you say.
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Wesker's power promotes tunneling. Need I say more?
Yes, actually you do. When I ask for the base of the claim, and you just state the claim again to me. It makes your claim look very baseless. Many Killers tunnel in this game, what makes this merit a nerf then? last I heard tunneling was not illegal?
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Ok, my claim isn't that tunneling is illegal. They've done things to counter it (haste + enduring status effect after unhook) and there are perks to counter it such as Decisive Strike (which while doesn't do a great job at it, it still helps).
Still, it's undeniable that Weskers power promotes it. After your first hook, the only survivor that will have been infected majority of the time will be the hooked survivor. While this isn't always the case, when it is the case it makes tunneling the hooked survivor quite easily when they do get unhooked. This is due to the fact that if the Wesker player does decide to tunnel, the survivor will eventually be fully infected and will be much easier to catch.
No other killer really has this. Yes, it is often easier to go for the rescued survivor as they're already injured, but no killer actively promotes going for that survivor (other than wanting to get a survivor out early to make the rest of the game easier, which every killer has).
I'm under the belief he needs a nerf due to this, while also needing a buff to compensate it as this isn't a nerf because he's too strong, but rather a nerf cause he's frustrating to go against, something they did wrong when they nerfed Freddy without compensating him with buffs to try and promote a more fun playstyle.
While my changes might have been a bit much, @JustAShadow made a good suggestion of infection not passively going up after being unhooked until you take a Conspicuous Action. This limits his ability to tunnel while not nerfing his ability to chase other survivors, and on top of this he believes two of Weskers stronger uncommon Add Ons could be made base kit as a result (which would be nice but I would like more on top of that).
TL/DR: Tunneling is fine but his power promoting tunneling is problematic, therefore warrants a nerf while also receiving a buff as compensation.
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If you actually wanted to reduce tunneling, youd make the spray not produce the Killer Instinct effect. Removing infection gain during chase makes him garbo.
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@JustAShadow made a better suggestion of it not going up on unhooked survivors up until the take a Conspicuous Action which I think is much better than my idea.
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No other killer really has this.
No other Killer has a Power that makes it easier to down an Survivor by tunneling them?
Bubba, Trapper, Hag, Nurse, Trickster, Huntress comes to mind real fast.
Sure their Power might not slow the Survivor by 20%, but their powers r equally or sometime better to tunnel with than full infection.
Huntress can eliminate you with a single hatchet at range, You wanna tell me how that cant be used to tunnel a Survivor easier too?
Cant many Killers end chase really quickly? If that is the logic, then all Killers are problematic.
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None of those actively promote tunneling a survivor though. Yes a Huntress may be able to get a down from range, or a Trapper can try force a survivor to run into his trap, or a Nurse can not give a care in the world about the endurance status effect knowing she can catch up instantly, but if those killers see two injured Survivors in the distance after a recent unhook, none of their powers are actively promoting going for one of the survivors over the other. If it's close to the end of the game you might be inclined to take a kill where you can, while if it's early game it really depends on your morales in DBD and if you care about the other side having a fun game or not.
Wesker's power, as mentioned before, does promote going for the unhooked survivor given they're infected and the other injured survivor isn't, which is a plausible situation.
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But if those killers see two injured Survivors in the distance after a recent unhook, none of their powers are actively promoting going for one of the survivors over the other.
That is not true, All Killers play by hook stages so they all can benefit from tunneling. Huntress can and will tunnel, and its not because of just hook stages. a hatchet to the back really helps with tunneling and Killing. They are all actively being promoted to tunnel.
You cant just say you are right on a technicality because Hook stages are not part of the Killer Power, every Killer plays with those. You have to make a better argument than that imo.
All Killers have powers that are designed to help them Kill Survivors.
Tunneling is a way to Kill Survivors by pressuring their hook stages early.
Any Killer that has a power that kills is going to be helped with tunneling with their Power.
Your idea that Wesker's Power somehow "Promotes" tunneling instead of like all Killers, a Killer Power which is useful for Killing & also useful for tunneling seems nothing more than being against Powers that help with Killing, when that Killing is used for tunneling.
If we took that idea seriously, recently unhooked Survivors should be immune to hatchets / traps and all sorts of things when tunneled. But you don't seem to want to do that because of a technicality?
Either way you slice this, I don't think I'm in for meddling with Killer Power on the pretence it promotes tunneling, when almost everything in the game on the Killer's side can be argued to be help tunneling, I mean promotes tunneling.
It could be fine if bHVR made Killers with a Power that could never help them with tunneling, but that would make that Power useless when tunneling was the right choice. So that might be a bad power.
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Then obviously PyH also needs a nerf since he is the best tunneler ever. But I guess you don't complain about him because you obly get one PyH in 30 matches.
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Guess we don't see eye to eye on the topic bit I'm glad for the debate regardless.
Actually I've always been behind perks like Decisive, Borrowed and the like, as well as the current anti-tunneling mechanics to be introduced to his cages (on the condition perks be added for him that work with his cages too). On top of that I'd argue Wesker is still better at tunneling due to the 8% speed debuff.
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My post was actually meant sarcastic. I've seen some posts that claim that Wesker needs a nerf because he can tunnel well, but everyone seems to forget that PyH can do that very well too and imo even better than him because he can ignore any in-game anti-tunnel mechanics. Wesker still needs to eat any OTR, DS, or DH, PyH does not if done well. Huntress, Hag, Bubba and Billy can camp very well, Oni and Twins are supreme sluggers and Knight and SM are super for 3-gens. Do they all need a nerf then because they "promote a not fun tactic"? Obviously not.
All killers tunnel btw. It is just that you notice it with Wesker more since he seems to be in a lot of your matches (Can we swap? I want more Wesker's but I only get Nemesis or Huntress atm). Before certain killers are nerfed because of these tactics, these tactics should be made less viable first.
As a Wesker Main I would only do either of 2 things (maybe both) to nerf the ability to tunnel withou
1. Remove killer instinct from the sprays. This gives you the opportunity to remove the infection when Wesker is near without having to fear that he will come for you again if he is unoccupied.
2. Reduce the infection upon getting hooked to 1%. This resets the timer until you get the 8% debuff to 120s. This would give you a looong time until it takes effect even if BT, OTR, DS or DH get used. If you get tunneled that hard your team has enough time to do gens. There is no need to remove it completely as there are enough spays available. This would be a heavy and unnecessary nerf as well.
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