I made a perk to counter tunnelling
Side: Survivor
Name: Lackluster
Description: Perk activates after being hooked. Gain a token for every time you escape a chase up to 4 tokens. Each token grants a 6.25%/9.375%/12.5% increase to the wiggle meter for each survivor still alive in the match. Upon freeing yourself from a wiggle lose half your tokens.
If a player other than you is hooked while this perk is active the perk disables and must be reactivated by being hooked again.
tokens are reset to zero when the perk is deactivated.
Comments
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In isolation, I think it's a good perk. Factoring in that Flip-Flop, Boil Over and Breakout exist, this perk could wind up monstrously abusable well and above its intended purpose. I mean, would this stack? Would 4 people running this and Boil Over essentially become unhookable within even a few feet of a hook?
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Yay, unhookable survivors would be back. What could go wrong.
You really want to bleed out, don't you?
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I would have said that the counter to this perk is fine. Don't tunnel.
However, as this perk gives no indication of it's presence until you've already committed to a tunnel and downed and then picked up the survivor, there isn't really a counter to it. It's basically just Decisive Strike with fewer restrictions.
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this looks like a smaller version of breakout that is self applied, super cool idea!
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My concern with having a perk to counteract tunnelling is that it would then be a must run perk - I'd much rather there was something in the base game to incentivise NOT tunnelling as a playstyle first. Just my two cents though.
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it wouldn't stack because of how the math and mechanics work.
it very much is a perk that is meant to replace decisive strike - not boil over and flipflop.
flipflip only works if you slug and don't pick a survivor up.
boiled over only works if you overly rely on auras for hooks or try to drop from a height to reach a hook.
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this perk specifically requires tokens, only gains tokens upon being the most recent unhooked survivor, and only works if activated and if you've recently won a chase while other survivors are alive.
if somehow you're the last survivor and you somehow manage to 4% yourself off the hook when the other survivor dies the progress meter will only gain 6.25%/9.375%/12.5% progress per escape up to a maximum of 4 tokens.
or 25%/37.5%/50% with 2 survivors its 50%/75%/100%
but you'd have to escape 4 chases. and no matter what you're only going to get use out of one or the other.
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bleeding out is a valid strategy for killers in my opinion. However, I don't see how this perk would cause that kind of issue. it only affects the most recently unhooked survivor so the other 1,2, or 3 are fair game.
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fair point. i'd be open to an aura effect or ui symbol to identify that it's applied.
but then there's also the argument that... nearly zero other perks have indications - like unbreakable. or dead hard. or lithe. 🤷🏻♂️
i think in this case though - it'd be fine to have an effect to indicate the perk is active.
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it's a hybrid of breakout and decisive strike and another perk that for some reason i can't think of the name right now.
edit
up the ante.
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the only way would be by reducing the gains for doing so that lead to a victory.
killer's victory is sacrificing survivors.
so reduce the progression speed of a survivor's hook. maybe add a "stale hook" effect where when a survivor is hooked twice in a row the second phase lasts longer.
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You guys keep allowing the gens to be completed so fast that if you don't take the path of least resistance as a killer and down whomever you can i.e. "tunneling," then you're actively shooting yourself in the foot.
I agree it'd be a lot cooler if it wasn't necessary to jump to desperation tactics right off the bat, but getting to a better game state like that is completely dependent on how long you guys choose to cling to this model of quick gens alongside too many resources (and second chances).
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Uh soooo, can we expect a little more of that mindset to be implemented ingame any time soon? Feels very necessary to run off the record or decisive strike to effectively avoid tunneling atm
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You have survivor who knows you can't hook him.
Do you really think they going to go away and work on gen, instead of annoying the hell out of killer. That's what DS did.
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I really hope that killers get incentives to not tunnel, as in positive reinforcements..... because if BHVR's solution involves adding more penalties to tunneling, then the word "incentives" shouldn't be used, and the word "punishments" should be used instead.
And it would need to be actual incentives, as in helping the killer find someone else to chase, to keep the game tempo steady for the killer... because telling killers they should purposely avoid a specific survivor, even if there are zero other survivors in sight, and expect the killer to just wander around the map looking for a different survivor, is a horrible expectation.
It's just like how BHVR keeps thinking up "solutions" for camping, but refuses to address the real problem, that expecting the killer to leave a hooked survivor, to just wander far away, hoping to find a survivor, is a horrible expectation.
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that perk idea is similar to a perk idea I had. it was a perk where whenever a survivor takes protection hit, they are put into the dying state ignoring all endurance effects and the person on shoulder gains 50-75% wiggle progress. You lose 1 hook-state and then the perk deactivates. the perk only works when you are not on death hook.
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I agree
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A window (20-30 seconds) of full invulnerability to the unhooked survivor, that gets disabled if they do any conspicous actions. This could incentivice killers to prioritize others over the newly unhooked player, and allow them to be fully healed.
I read in another post that a basekit BBQ and Chili could be a good idea for the killer players. A mini-version that reveals one survivor that has not been hooked yet, outside of a 40 meter radius. It could be a good helping hand for the killers who has trouble finding other survivors.
As for the other side of the coin. I think old Ruin needs to be brought back (in its original red skillcheck form), so that there is a legitimate counter to genrushing as well.
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OG ruin was too powerful against beginners and did nothing against experienced players. low mmr killers already have a blast and easy time. I see no reason to bring back perks like OG ruin.
However I agree ruin could use a buff - it makes very little sense right now (but buffing it in more regression - say 150% would do it).
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Thing is, it would only favor high mobility killers (like blight, nurse) with the auto regression in place, Regular killers would not gain as much value from it.
What if a compromise was made instead, like if the totem didn't get cleansed before X amount of time has passed, red skillchecks would appear.
Or tweaked the original effects to make it less punishing for new players.
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But hard skillchecks are exactly it - the toughest part for beginner survivors. OC is already a noob stomper. Unnerving presence is thrash tier anywhere but in low MMR (where it's actually very good). Huntress lullaby is useless against anyone but beginners AND streamers.
If quicker regression is not a way to go, then you would need entirely new effect. Which means, you want new hex perk. I am totally not opposed to it, but I can't think of good effect. Not at this moment at least.
While we are at it - I think it would make sense to buff all the hexes basekit. Make them immune to cleansing first 20s of the trial (to at least mitigate a little horrible hex spawns). It would help with hexes that need some protection and do nothing for some stronger hexes like plaything, pentimento and NOED.
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