Map Offerings Need to Be Removed
There is nothing good going on with map offerings. They are only messing up the playerbase an insane amount, both bringing lower-skilled survivors further up the MMR rank than they should be as well as giving an unfair game to equally skilled killers.
With practically no maps fully good for killer besides MAYBE Midwich and Dead Dawg, map offerings are essentially giving survivors unfair buffs.
I'm really sorry to say this, developers, as I know you've been working hard recently, but I will be blunt here: each new map made has almost gotten more and more survivor-sided, and with map offerings not being removed, they are only getting more and more useful for tryhards each time a new map is released.
Survivors often say they do it just for the map achievement, but to be honest, I feel like these achievements are only negatively affecting the outcome of rounds due to the map's problem.
Comments
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Imagine thinking those are the only good killer maps and not acknowledging that certain maps are good on killers and other bad on them. Lery's and RPD is pretty good on stealth killers, but Lery's is bad on Blight. The Borgo is great for Huntress because many walls have holes in them or are not high enough. The game is great on Doctor. Indoor maps are great for SM. Maps with more than one floors are bad for Artist. Open maps are great for Hillbilly but can be difficult to traverse for M1 killers.
Can we stop pretending killers can only play in two maps and have advantage?
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You'd break every Myers and GFs heart if they couldn't play on Lerys
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You don't understand, when maps are concerned all killers are the same except Nurse and Blight. When MFT is concerned only M1 killers count. There is no variety of killers in DBD. You have been dreaming of Pinhead, Plague, Artist, pyramid Head, Wesker, Knight etc. All that exists and matters are M1 killers along with Blight and Nurse. There's no in between.
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Do you think that by removing it, the maps will balance on their own?
The game keeps sending you to those maps, so you haven't solved the problem, you're just putting salt on the wound
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The salt are the map offerings. At least my wound can be at peace if I get Coldwind the 7th time in a row randomly.
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Okay and what's your point? I should play 4/30+ stealth killers to have 4 good maps instead of 2? Or maybe the 3 ranged killers for 3 good maps instead of 2?
There is 1 killer and 4 survivors. Obviously survivors will bring more map offerings.
Good maps for every killer:
- Midwich, Dead Dawg
Good maps against most killers:
- Eyrie, Borgo, Garden, Game, Lery's, Red Forest, Asylum, Ormond, RPD, Toba, Coldwind.
You see the imbalance here?
And this is without pointing out the fact that RPD, Eyrie, Garden, Borgo and Toba were released back-to-back, and are now boosted.
You can always argue that Game is good for Nurse because of verticality and small size.
You can always argue that Ormond is good for Singularity.
You can always argue that Coldwind is good for Huntress.
Wow, a few killers have advantages in VERY specific maps. That means the maps are fine!
- You, probably.
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Eyrie has gotten smaller but sure let's just keep pretending it's the same as when it got released. And more maps are to be addressed in the future.
You keep saying killers but you are not mentioning the killers who have trouble. M1 killers frankly don't consist of all killers unlike what you and others here want to believe. And killers should not have universal maps that are good on all killers, because the killers play in different ways so map variety should be encouraged. Not all killers should have the same strong/weak map. But this always gets lost in the conversation of maps.
Killers having strong advantages in maps should not be discounted because it makes them significantly stronger. Which means half the maps should not make the killer an absolute monster.
So many maps like Haddonfield, Sanctum of Wrath, Autohaven Wreckers and maybe more I cannot recall right now (oh yeah the infamous RPD), are incredibly easy to force a 3-gen. And let's not start at the comments I've seen of people even claiming that Dead Dawg Saloon isn't actually a killer side map...lol. Most map discussions are not sincere at all and many killers prefer to judge the maps on Trapper's level that any other killer's power, as if most killers even play like Trapper. Makes me wonder if they play any other killer beside GF, Pig, Trapper, Legion and Wraith.
Some killers will never have the map versatility of Nurse even when more maps get addressed, because they're incredibly easy to play and Nurse isn't as simple, that's why she keeps getting away with it. Her skill floor is higher than Trapper's, Gh, Pig's, Myer's etc. It's also why she's afforded a higher skill ceiling. M1 killers will always be (or at least should) be on the weaker side because of their simplicity in playstyle. If we got a Trapper who could have the advantages of Nurse and none of the mechanical disadvantages something would be extremely wrong. Heck even on par with Wesker or Artist.
I just want to see what ideal maps for killers will look like if they were ever addressed the way killers want them addressed. Maybe share your vision with me?
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Gideon is definitely killer sided. It's tiny, has bad gen spawn (3gen very possible), strong inner-map syndrome (you can't find gens), hard to orient. Minimal number of windows. The map is instawin on legion/blight/wesker with certain build. It's super strong for bubba, ghostface and certain meyers, wraith with certain build/addons. Still very strong for huntress, pyramidhead, deathslinger, trickster with certain addon. There are only a few killers that outright struggle there (namely standard Freddy). Saying it is survivor sided just because it has a lot of pallets that need to be broken (which BTW means they can't be reused or played around) does NOT make the map survivor sided.
But I am no longer surprised. Because "there's just midwitch and maybe saloon". Ignore wretched shop, wrecker's yard, azarov's, both RPD's. And ignore maps that are almost balanced but still favor killer more like sanctum of wrath, pale rose, Father's campberll's, Thomson's.
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I'd make the argument that all map offerings and the Sacrificial Ward should be rolled into 1 offering, as the lone map offering. You get a selection menu that uses the icon of the current map offerings or Sac-Ward, and you pick which map or no forced map to play on when equipping the offering (defaults to Sacrificial Ward if nothing is selected or selected in time). That way map offerings are much rarer, with only 1 map offering existing to compete in future bloodwebs, but it is a universal map offering, so the old Lery's offerings on Huntress are now playable. Current map offerings are summed together and put onto the new offering.
Honestly I hate Lerys as Ghostface. You can't stalk at long ranges without the Survivors knowing you stalked them. Yeah you still win as Ghosty plenty on the map, you win as all Killers often on that map, but it just isn't fun to rewatch the streamer VODs and seeing they always knew when they were 99'd. Seeing people go 'when did he stalk me?!?!?' is the greatest feeling of success.
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This very topic demonstrates just how subjective and variable map strength is.
Good maps against most killers: - Eyrie, Borgo, Garden, Game, Lery's, Red Forest, Asylum, Ormond, RPD, Toba, Coldwind.
There are many killers that excel on Game, Lery's, RPD and Toba. And even most of the maps which are deemed to be 'survivor sided' and nowhere near bad enough that killers can't play on them. All maps are viable, and I have slaughtered survivors as the weakest of killers on the most survivor sided maps, just as I have been slaughtered by survivors on killer sided maps.
Ultimately, if you ended up on any of the worst maps through shear chance, you could play the map just fine. But if you ended up on a map via a map offering... what has changed exactly?
Strong SWFs can still end up on survivor sided maps without an offering, and you can still beat uncoordinated survivor teams on survivor sided maps. The difference here is the skill level of the survivor team, not the map offering.
Did you lose to the highly coordinated SWF who played a Garden of Joy offering because they played a map offering? Or did did you lose to them because they're a highly coordinated SWF?
The issue is not map offerings, the issue isn't even mostly that maps are unbalanced, because that level of imbalance is grossly overestimated. The issue is differences in skill, and the knee-jerk reaction to blame a loss on a factor outside of your control.
Map offerings offer a slight advantage to the side who plays it, and that's what offerings are meant for. They're not really any more powerful than reagents or oaks, or potentially even shrouds (if they worked correctly for the side who played it), they're altering the playing field in your favour, slightly.
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Why are you complaining about MAP OFFERINGS rather than MAP BALANCING? I personally only bring map offerings for silly plays like the hole build in the ward. I get some survivors will bring it to the game so they can 5 gen or whatever, but killers can also bring it to maps their good on. You clearly dont play any survivor and it shows. map offerings are completely fine and you are complaining about the wrong thing.
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I've played a lot of survivor recently. Did you not realize that I mentioned how bad maps are? If maps were a lot more balanced, map offerings should still be nonexistent. People shouldn't be able to force the other team to where they want to go.
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Practically my whole point is that it just feels more unfair when they force you to a map good for them. I want people to play fairly. Map balancing is the worst thing right now, but even if maps were balanced equally for everyone, I find it a little dumb for people to bring you to just where they want to go, sometimes having better skill specifically there.
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The maps SO need to be better balanced. Each one recently has only gotten worse and worse, focusing more on the beauty over balance each time.
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Yes, I want maps to be balanced over anything, but still, even if they were, it feels unfair when the survivors FORCE you to the worst of maps rather than having a chance of getting there. As bad as a map is, it feels fairer for the game to put you there than tryhards forcing you there.
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But they could easily end up there anyway, or somewhere worse.
Some examples:
1. I considered playing Mary's Letter when I played Dredge. Decided against it. Survivors coincidentally played a Sacrificial Ward that did nothing. We ended up on Midwich anyway and I won.
2. I played Mary's Letter as Dredge. Scored 1K.
3. Survivors played RPD offering. I was playing Ghostface and 4K'd at 3 gens.
4. Survivors played Coldwind offering, got Cowshed. I was playing Doctor and still won.
5. Survivors played Garden of Joy offering, but I played a Sacrificial Ward because they were obviously a SWF. We ended up on Eyrie of Crows (before the rework so objectively survivor sided) and I lost.
There are so many factors besides the map, that have a far greater impact on the outcome of the game. Maps, and by extension offerings, are largely inconsequential. Especially when played by survivors, because they don't know what killer they're going against. The only time they really benefit a player, is a killer like Doctor/Nurse/Dredge playing Midwich, or a stealth killer (particularly Mirror Myers) playing Lerys.
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Map offerings are made before the killer is known - for all the survivor knows, they’re about to play against a nurse. If all maps were equal, they’d basically be pallet swaps - some random alien crap instead of a hay bale - boom, new map. The fact that some are better for stealth, ranged, blight ping ponging off stuff, etc. is what makes them feel different and not stale from match to match.
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever used a single map offering on either killer or survivor. It just doesn’t make that much difference provided I adjust my play style.
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Those only support my point that map offerings aren't good, then/
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Sir...this is not the Hot Takes thread :p.
I just don't understand why we can never have an honest conversation about maps but always have to resort to "these maps bad for killer and thse maps good for killer" and it's always the same maps too. Midwich and Dead Dawg killer sided, Eyrie, Garden, Mother's Dwelling survivor sided. It's like everyone has come to the agreement that this is the argument and the killers who suffer on those maps and more have been agreed on and we all inherently know who they are (so who are they? I still don't know).
The only sincere discussion regarding maps and killers has been from that guy trying to compile the best and worst map for each killer and surprisingly you didn't end up with best map being Midwich and Dead Dawg on all killers.
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It's not the offerings themselves to blame. It's the map design and any unbalances on them, real or imagined.
That's where the real work needs to be done.
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I mean some people just like certian maps and want to go to them, not everyone is nerdy and wants to go to the best map. I personally bring shattered bottle almost anytime i get one bc I love the map. I personally find it fair and super fun. It seems like your just salty bc good players are bringing you to maps you personally feel are survivor sided. If thats not your reason, then theres literally no other reason. Most people use map offerings for fun.
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Just bring your own map offering. Compared to a lot of things in this game this seems like such a non-issue.
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My group will use ALL the map offerings one after the other, with exception to lery's, midwitch, RPD, toba's and shattered. These offerings are means to a, not repeat the same map twice b, dodge those 5 realms we don't enjoy. Same build on all the maps (maybe with exception to saloon - I remove saboteur there as the perk is totally useless on that map)
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Where I live, a lot keep bringing the worst of map alongside Brand New Parts and stuff. Not sure if that is a fair thing to do.... They often bring builds that match well with it.
I can't wait for BNPs to be nerfed. I'm not a tryhard, and I never do things on either side like tunneling or bringing strong items.
Just the other day, people brought me to Springwood and two used anti-hook builds, constantly running to the middle of the school to make it super annoying and a waste of time to hook them. It wasn't fun.
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It's easier to remove them entirely than compete for them.
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People have said what they could do is reverse the purpose of map offerings, making it so they prevent a map from coming. The bad part of this, though, is that tryhards to could easily choose to not bring the few good killer maps, increasing the chance of the ones they love. There are too many survivor-sided (or messed up entirely) maps, and so this wouldn't be quite as good for killer.
If the devs can't fix the maps, I find it best to remove map offerings. You can't say it's fairer to be forced to the worst of maps rather than unluckily getting put there.
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They COULD but they SHOULDN’T. I like map offerings. I don’t always play them but sometimes I’m in the mood for a certain realm or I want to visit one I haven’t seen in a while. I also like to play certain ones depending on the season. Around Halloween I like Haddonfield, Yamaoka Estate, and more and of course Ormond is great during Christmastime. I wish we had more maps for these reasons. I’m sorry you don’t like them, but it sounds to me like you just don’t like most maps in general and removing map offerings isn’t going to help you.
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I get your point, but I just see way too many tryhards around my area, often bringing me to the worst of maps. We have our opinions, but I'm biased against map offerings through facing too many tryhards as well as playing fairly.
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Ok. Remove map offerings, but remove whole visibility for lobby. Map offerings are the other side of coin that killer knows stuff about survivors, can see their items, can change build, possibly can see hours played...
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I feel like guaranteeing the killer is put to a bad map is much stronger than seeing some stuff about the survivors, but I get your point. However, the killer is only able to see the items themselves and not their strength, so that is definitely not quite as powerful as it could be.
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There are many reasons to use the Offerings maps:
-Choose my favorite map
-get a trophy
-Experience playing the new maps
-Choosing balanced maps to improve my skill
-Build experience on some maps
-Experience unbalanced maps to get a difficult match and challenge myself to win
-Choose a map that I will not visit for a long time
-Characters experience in their maps
and others
Your only reason for removing it is that you don't like being forced to go to a map chosen by another player
Knowing that you do not know from the first place which map the game will send you to
So there is no compulsion because you did not choose the map and the game will send you to a random map, then another player came and chose a map and then called it compulsory😑
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For me it's equal trade. If you think it stronger, that's fine. I am totally OK with removing map offering so long as whole lobby is invisible (or keep current status)
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Half of your reasons are what I find unfair: experience. I find it unfair to force the killer (or even survivors) to the map that is best for you; it gives the team a much harder game, and people like me only want fair play. When survivors or killers (with Myers being weak, Scratched Mirror Myers is an exception) forces the other to the map that is best for them, it is essentially giving themselves an unfair buff, and I do not find that okay.
Another thing, if you don't choose maybe Midwich nor Dead Dawg, no realm is entirely fair. Those two probably are in the fairest of realms, and they are the only maps in both of their realms. Just about every other realm has at least a bad map.
The most fair map in the game is probably Coal Tower, but that is only one of many maps in its realm, and so you can't really choose it.
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We have our opinions but thank you for talking more respectfully; most in my threads get angry at me.
They even yelled because I said to remove map offerings rather than fix maps, though I think it was obvious that I still want maps fixed with the fact that I mentioned them being messed up.
Too many people want to get angry for one reason or another.
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I agree, they are rarely ever used for any reason that is based on good intentions.
That being said, I will use a Lery's as Nurse just to make it hard for myself, or an Autohaven or MacMillan if I am getting bad maps over and over, as I feel those are fairly neutral balance wise.
But yeah, I would not complain if offerings were retired altogether
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I wish it was easier to get Coal Tower. I think that is likely the fairest map in the game, so it'd be nice if either they make maps better like that one or bring you there more.
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Yeah its a nice map for sure, one of my favs
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