I miss Old CoH and Medkits so much man..

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Sharby
Sharby Member Posts: 498
edited July 2023 in General Discussions

Game feels so sluggish with current healing, also I hate hit and run.


Anyone else feel the same? Can we at least revert one of them?

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Comments

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,903
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    I would at least want Medkits to not feel all samey. I think allowing Greens to remove the self-heal speed penalty (for a 16s self heal, the old brown speed) and Purples to remove the self-heal inefficiency penalty with 32 charges (allowing for 2 heals on self and allies basekit, but self still taking 24s) would be good. Just like when they changed hatch and keys, and they made Keys near worthless not worth being in Bloodwebs, similar could be said about the current Medkits rarer than Brown.

    I think Self-Care also should be buffed, but I almost want it to still be under 50%, maybe 45% would be fine. That way people know self-healing is less effective, but can still have the option.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    You don’t think medkits in their current state are redundant? I understand I should be healing my teammates, and they should be healing me. That isn’t always plausible, however. They could’ve easily reduced healing speed and efficiency for self-care on all medkits without making them all 24 charges. And why would I ever bring Botany Knowledge knowing if I do need to use a medkit it will never be enough to heal me fully? They could’ve just made it so that BK’s speed boost is deactivated when using a medkit rather than adding the efficiency penalty. None of it makes sense to me.

  • lav3
    lav3 Member Posts: 758
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    Rebalancing Self-Care and reverting Botany would be considerable.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    Isn’t that what makes them not okay though? They’re all essentially the same unless they’re being used on another survivor.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,148
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    The med-kit rarities being the same for self heals doesn't really matter when the ability to self-heal even at 33% penalty is still strong.

    Not to mention Syringes and Styptics are quite powerful addons med-kits enable.

  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141
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    I hate both of those but I hate hit and run even more, brainless playstyle

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,727
    edited July 2023
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    I think their power level is fine as a whole.


    I don't like that the Med-Kits are all functionally the same though.

    Post edited by Pulsar on
  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,812
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    I miss when medkits were actually different

    Literally no point in using medkits beyond common

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,792
    edited July 2023
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    Medkits and toolboxes are still good its just you cant have everyone bring 4 and have 3 self heals per medkit. Also flashlights are still very good with you being able to start the blind early but still "save" them because funny .4 second buffer that makes em nearly brainless.

    Post edited by Brimp on
  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141
    edited July 2023
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    Because it's literally just going around the map as legion or a stealth killer and only getting hits that will take minimal effort, just because you're applying pressure to multiple survivors doesn't mean it actually takes any skill or effort whatsoever

  • Sharby
    Sharby Member Posts: 498
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    Yeah but I only use the grey's, the other rarities are kinda pointless and just bloodweb clutter, wouldn't mind if they removed rarities from all items tbh.

  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141
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  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,642
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    Nah, self-healing being strong was bad for the game. Old CoH was effective for staying alive against the old 3-gen meta, but once Overbrine was gone it needed to go too. The game isn't balanced around survivors being as self-sufficient as they could be before CoH and medkits were nerfed. Medkits are still very good at that too, just not as much as they were before.

    My only gripe with medkits now is that they don't feel different enough in rarity, a brown medkit is almost as good as a purple medkit. Brown medkits should probably be a little weaker and green + purple medkits should be a bit stronger. Yellow medkits are fine the way they are.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 970
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    Flashlights: You've never used a beamer to blind a Killer at a Pallet Break? Even if they have headphones with their capability to track footstep audio, the blindness still significantly increases potential mindgames.

    Keys: Totally agree.

    Maps: Also agree, and it's not like you can use them to give your allies information if you're not in a SWF.

    Toolboxes: no Sabo plays at all? Don't even need to use it at the start, hold onto it until the Killer is near or you're at the last couple-a gens.

    Medkits: par for the course. However sloppy reduces healing speed, it doesn't reduce healing efficiency, so you'll still get the same healing out of them, just slower.

  • Wiccamanplays
    Wiccamanplays Member Posts: 130
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    As a Killer main, I do not miss 8 second heals and constantly having to snuff out CoH totems. I do agree that they could do more to differentiate different rarities of medkits since nobody uses them altruistically anyway, but given that everyone is still running them I don't think they're useless, especially since I see styptics and syringes way more now than before. I would welcome a change to make altruistic healing easier for solo players, and I keep coming back to something like basekit Kindred or other informational perks as a nice way to allow survivors to reset and collaborate better without giving SWFs an undue advantage.

    Rather than reverting what was definitely a necessary set of changes to medkits and CoH, I'd prefer they show some love to some of the more niche healing perks like Solidarity, Bite the Bullet, Desperate Measrues and so on. They should also just buff Self Care since everyone runs it anyway and it's not exactly going to ruin the meta if it's a bit stronger.

    In the longer term, I really believe devs should adjust how perks and items synergise with one another so we get fewer broken metas on both sides. The gen-kick Killer meta was not fun, nor were 8-second heals, nor are 50 second generators or 110% movement speed survivors. Granted, it might remove some 'fun' strategies if these kinds of synergies were reworked, but it would also allow some underused perks to get more attention (and therefore changes) if stacking gen regression or healing speed perks was less effective than bringing a diverse kit to a Trial.

  • Ariel_Starshine
    Ariel_Starshine Member Posts: 937
    edited July 2023
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    Same. All my friends quit and I don't play as often after the change, they say the game feels stale and boring. What can I say?

    I feel forced to run we'll make it just to heal someone ELSE (not even myself...) in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise you sit there for 50 years falling asleep while healing someone, and healing yourself takes so long without a shot it's a waste of time. Zzz.

    I see so many complaints about all survivor items on here its depressing. Might as well homenogize all the items so it's even more boring. Mostly everything is useless and now toolbox parts are getting nerfed with no new items being added? Wot.

    I've been having more fun playing grounded with my partner and friends lately. ..

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675
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    Medkits are still nice, you can push 2 heals with them now at much fairer speeds.

    Both things you mentioned really killed the killer's pressure and made it so that in a lot of cases you had to commit to chases.

    In some cases you might not be able to win if the survs bring 4 medkits and you dont have franklins since your ability to spread pressure is 0 since everyone can just solo heal in 10 seconds or less. Same with COH especially in a team or an indoor map.

    The only form of self heal that has been fine is medkits how they are now and old selfcare (which I really think should be back at 50% and not 35 oof).

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    But if that healing action gets interrupted at all it’s useless. You don’t have enough for more than 1 full heal.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    You’re referring to healing your mates, right? Because current medkits have enough charges for 1 full self-heal. I’m all about the reduction in healing speeds for all the medkits but giving them all the same amount of charges and efficiency penalty is stupid. Medkits should be prioritized as a self-heal item.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    Is it though? You get 1 full self-heal from a medkit. I understand people not wanting every survivor to be able to heal 5 times with ease but the current functionality is redundant. Why would I want the purple medkit when I can use a brown one with the same results?

    Sloppy Butcher also exists and is ran by more than half of the killers I face. It can easily make the current medkits absolutely useless.

    Survivor bloodwebs are extremely cluttered. We have map offerings, blueprints, luck modifiers, bloodpoint modifiers, perks, shrouds, reagents, 5 different kinds of items with varying rarities and multiple add-ons for all of those items. So how often do you think a purple medkit comes along let alone the really good add-ons? If you’re pouring in the points to level characters extremely fast you’re gonna get to see those more often but if you’re the average player, like myself, they’re rare which is kind of the point. I shouldn’t have to rely on an add-on to make an item worth using. Besides, I see way more killers iridescent power add-ons than purple medkit add-ons in my bloodwebs because of how they’re designed.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,451
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    engineer's is better if you use double charges unless you are a hyperfocus enjoyer.

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675
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    They can be a self healing item, but if they are anywhere close to before it is simply too strong and no I am not talking about healing your mates. With a syringe you can get yourself 2 full self heals with 1 medkit.

    Self healing is a risky bet in the game since healing on average is designed to take 2 survivors and that by itself is fine, its why it was a bad idea they made all healing take 24 secs in the PTB. Self healing already cuts that time in half in terms of time efficiency which doing it once and especially at 24 seconds is probably fine. But getting a bunch of heals at 16 seconds or less on yourself is just too powerful, especially for some of the weaker killers.

  • Kius
    Kius Member Posts: 140
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    yeah well I'm sure killers miss their old gen regression perks too and old corrupt intervention..


    we all can't have what we want now do we?

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,354
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    Killer mains here have always complained about the speed at which gens are completed; even during the Erupt-Over-Brine era.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
    edited July 2023
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    I guess my point is that there was a way to weaken self healing without making it redundant. Like any killer add-on that appears in the bloodweb there are some things that are powerful and meant to shake up the gameplay. I don’t want anything other than brown medkits to clutter up my bloodweb if I have to spend more BP on a different one for the same effect. I also have to add that you can’t get two full heals from the medkit + syringe unless you bring another add-on that adds more charges. Even then, that’s an ultra rare add-on. If I choose to bring a purple medkit + 2 iridescent add-ons I deserve to get some good usage out of it.

  • KayTwoAyy
    KayTwoAyy Member Posts: 1,699
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    Circle of Healing was a whole can of worms I wish BHVR never opened.

    It's a parasite that completely redefined the way Survivors think about the game.


    Both nerfs were necessary, but the medkit nerfed felt a bit uninspired. Give all medkits the same charges and heal speed, then include the ability to remove status effects like Haemorrhage, Deep Wound, Mangled, and possibly even Hindered.

    I've no suggestions for how to implement those into the game, I just think the medkits need more situational value. Maybe you have a medkit that doesn't even heal, it just removes status effects, idk.


    I'm a huge fan of Hit N' Run because it brings the horror element back into the game. Survivors should always be looking over their shoulder, and there is just too much security in knowing you can sit on a gen for 90s because the Killer needs to commit to their current chase or they will lose the game. Sitting on a gen is boring, but the threat of the Killer showing up at any moment goes a long way towards making it fun and engaging.

  • Eelanos
    Eelanos Member Posts: 346
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    I try sabo plays whenever I have sabo dailies and they usually end up amounting to nothing.

    More often than not, the killer goes from the get-go for another hook you can't reach before him.

    If the sabotage is successful, they just turn to the side and they have another hook readily available.

    And if they don't, they just drop the survivor on the floor and they chase me until the hook is restored. Which you'd think is a successful sabo play until you realize you have 2 people not doing gens and a potential 3rd one going to rescue the dropped survivor. Which means, this is only ever useful if you manage to be in this situation while the carried survivor was on their last hook.

    So yeah, besides a repair toolbox or a healing medkit, there's really no point on getting anything else. Repairing gens and healing is the only thing you can guarantee you'll need to do every match, but finding totems or sabotaging a hook not only is often unnecesary, in the case of sabotaging it can also put you in a terrible position if you're unsuccessful.

    This is kinda my issue with most survivor stuff. Everything has very modest numbers even for the extremely niche situations where it's suppose to excel at. And when the item or perk can be used a bit more often than once every 12 matches, we get the forums raging over a 0.1% speed increase while being wounded.

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675
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    The medkits do become a lot more different from each other and better if you are using it to heal your team mates.

    Also, you can just bring a brown addon and a syringe to get your two heals one of which you can have whilst moving or even in a chase. I know you need an iri but again it is a powerful effect.

    I think overall it is just too risky to buff self healing of medkits in any way since if you made it so a ranger medkit basekit like before could get two heals that can already be a bit much to deal with.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333
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    Maps are the most consistently useful item in the entire game.

    Keys are still useful, but you can't go into games playing for hatch from the start. They have lots of other effects that are useful.

    Alex's toolbox is consistently useful for sabo, it's literally never changed.

    Flashlights have the same consistency they've had for basically most of their existence.

    If you really needed 4 heals out of a ranger kit to have fun then you have different issues outside of item consistency.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    If I’m healing my teammates I’m not using a medkit unless I’m pressured for time. More often than not you’re going to be in a position where you need to self-heal and need that medkit for that purpose. When you play solo queue you can’t really rely on anyone but yourself. I get that they’re trying to get people to play more altruistically but you can’t force people to play a certain way (because they just won’t) and knowing this makes me feel as if I need to hoard a medkit for myself just in case. Since the healing nerfs I feel like I’m playing less altruistically that I normally do because if I waste my medkit on someone else then I’m probably screwed.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    I don’t necessarily NEED 4 heals from a medkit but knowing I have something to help me out of a tight spot enables me to play a bit riskier (or, more altruistically in this game’s sense.) I would not say maps are the most useful item as most people are already good at locating gens and totems. As for flashlights, try getting a flashlight save on the Switch. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s difficult enough I don’t even bother with them. Not to mention one of the most popular killer perks completely negates a flashlights usefulness and they can see when they need to bring it.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
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    Yeah I agree, I don’t think self care as a concept is healthy for the game. It needs to be a team game. Self caring needs to be extremely limited and extremely time inefficient. It’s supposed to be bad for the team but good for you.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333
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  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904
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    Yeah but it stands to reason.

    Survivors need to escape quickly, the longer they are in game the more likely they will get found and hooked.

    Killers need to extend the game in order to maximize opportunities to get down and hooks.

    So with such opposed concepts time wise... survivors will complain about things being too slow, killers will complain about things being too fast.

    The pendulum of change will swing between these two extremes and people will complain accordingly, hence threads like this.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,003
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    also I hate hit and run.

    You love tunnelling you say?