We don’t like this rework for Sadako…
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This is like saying tombstone Myers is all in on doing a mori instead of hooking. Of course he's all in on doing a mori, that's his kit. And it's Sadako's kit too now, since her new condemn is global rather than local. I don't see any reason to ever not be all in with this rework.
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you could argue the same for Live version of Sadako. with ring drawing, if you hook people, you lost 1 condemn stack because survivors did not heal the downed survivor. they unhooked which is 0 stacks. you also lost stacks from TV teleports because hook might not be near TV's but picking someone up and dropping them near a TV means they are next to a TV to TP.
Global condemn means that you are not punished for not slugging within proximity of TV. you can still hook and build condemn at same time. there is no drawback to hooking besides spending time putting them on a hook. As I said, it is optional safety net.
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Almost never saw Sadako. Now, once the initial rush of people trying to see her new rework passes, I'll probably NEVER see Sadako. They did her dirty. Apparently seeing one Sadako in a month was too much for BHVR. They wanted less.
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Yes, you could. This is exactly why Ring Drawing users slug, actually.
They appeared to want to get rid of this playstyle based on i) the Ring Drawing nerf ii) the change in today's developer notes to make a hit destroy the tape, but they've only done the opposite since the chasee is once-more vulnerable to Projection-induced condemned without the tape after being hit. Hooking is something you can do if you want to play nice. But my point was that it's not really optimal to do it in this rework and that appears to go against the spirit of what the developers wanted. They've messed up.
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it was not optimal in either versions. the only difference was that in PTB, you got punished regardless of what action you took. now it is neutral between either action. slugging means that you do not waste time hooking but your not progress any hook-states so if someone is downed 4 times, then you not hooking them hurts you. the upside of hooking is that they are guaranteed to die in 3 hooks. you remove reliance of the power by hooking the survivor.
New changes encourage hit & run Sadako. you want to hit as many people with tapes to knock them out of the survivors hand to maximize condemn build up. I think you should give new Sadako a try. it might not be as bad as it appears.
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While I am sympathetic to the plight of Sadako mains regarding this issue (I do play her a lot myself - she's one of my legacy prestiges and is currently at prestige 24 for me)
Saying "Yeah but Myers" is a terrible comparison.
First off, condemned Sadako is an awful playstyle to go against and survivors largely hate it. I also hate it and I play as her.
But survivors also hate instamori Myers.
He can only do that if using a very rare or ultra rare addon and it makes him one of the most unpleasant killers to play against in the game.
Going up against that is basically guaranteeing nobody in the trial gets any bloodpoints and are guaranteed to depip, it's awful and should have been removed a long time ago.
It should definitely not be emulated on other killers.
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Of course there are reasons to still slug. Think of this: Hooking doesn't further condemn. Teleporting and hitting does. You just downed someone and other survivors are currently holding tapes. The time you're spending walking someone to a hook is time you could spend hitting someone else and making sure tapes aren't free and you're pressuring them properly. Assuming, again, that other people are holding tapes (the iridescent addon is pretty much mandatory here but that's another can of bad design entirely). The downed guy no longer has a tape on him because it was destroyed on hit. Ergo, you no longer care about him until the moment he picks up a tape again. Until that moment you are teleporting and pressuring tape holders to make sure they are being punished for holding.
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that is just means you dislike killers with mori-based play-styles. Myer's is based off movies and Sadako is also based off movies. their play-style in winning is mori-based. they both feature very unique gameplay from survivor. they play the game in such a different way that it feels like brand new game when playing against them. The gameplay being so alien means that you have adjust how you survive as survivor to escape against them. It is unlikely for their unique gameplay loops to be removed.
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"I" don't like it, yes, but that's not an uncommon sentiment. Condemned Sadako on live right now is easily one of the most reviled killer playstyles to go against. I think the only one that's hated more is 3gen Skull Merchant. They are literally trying to remove it from her right now, most likely due to overwhelming feedback that it sucks to play against.
Mori Myers is just a test of how fast the survivors can do gens. BHVR may not see it as being problematic because it doesn't make the game take forever like condemned Sadako does and it requires rare addons, but that doesn't make it fun to play against.
The difference between Myers and Sadako is that Myers was 100% intended, but Sadako was most likely not intended to play that way. Do you really think that the way BHVR wanted people to play Sadako was for her to slug and generally avoid hooking people?
They clearly don't because they nerfed the Ring Drawing, nerfed how fast she can build condemned on a single survivor, and then when a way was found to continue the slugging playstyle on PTB, they removed that as well.
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I'm not sure if you actually read what I posted, because this is pretty much what I've said :)
I agree, it's bad that she's emulating other killers and I'm upset that this is the best way to play her with the rework.
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Mori Myers is just a test of how fast the survivors can do gens.
I think this statement can be applied to every single killer. Here's example.
"Nurse is just a test of how fast the survivor can do gens."
"Plague is just a test of how fast the survivors can do gens."
"Wesker is just a test of how fast the survivors can do gens."
Do you see the pattern?
The difference between Myers and Sadako is that Myers was 100% intended,
whose to say what is and what is not intended. you do not know if it was intended or not intended.
They clearly don't because they nerfed the Ring Drawing, nerfed how fast she can build condemned on a single survivor, and then when a way was found to continue the slugging playstyle on PTB, they removed that as well.
I think reason they are changing Sadako is because playing against live version of Sadako did not feel like playing against Sadako in the movies. remember one of the reason they state when changing killer is design intent. how Sadako's were playing in live was not satisfactory to their vision of the killer.
that can also be reason to why certain add-on get changed. For example Reiko's watch is add-on to play a little bit like phase-walking spirit. they do not want that play-style for her so weakening disincentives the player from using it. There is likely nothing wrong with play-style but it is not within their design intent. their design intent with this rework is to improve condemn mechanic and they want killer to play into that mechanic. not ignore it like many Reiko's watch Sadako players. If you want to play into the whole phase-type invisible killer theme, there is spirit.
If your going ask, why her invisible mechanic so bad and not good like Spirit?
My guess: balance.
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I think this statement can be applied to every single killer.
Ugh. Come on, you know what I meant with that.
The way you beat instamori myers is by genrushing him as hard as possible. Yes you also do that against other killers, but you're also doing other things like rescuing/healing allies and when the killer comes for you, you need to loop them. The killer can also regress generators, there's flashlight saves and hook sabos you can go for, etc.
With myers it's like "Okay slam the gens before he hits T3 or we all die. Crap he's in T3, okay keep slamming the gens and whoever he chases dies."
whose to say what is and what is not intended.
Because it took people a very long time to figure out the condemned playstyle and the #1 priority BHVR seems to have in these changes is to ensure she can't do that anymore. Very safe to assume they never intended her to play like that.
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you're also doing other things like rescuing/healing allies and when the killer comes for you, you need to loop them. The killer can also regress generators, there's flashlight saves and hook sabos you can go for, etc.
your also doing that vs myer as well. If your teammate successfully jumps into a locker, you need rescue them from hook/floor without dying.
when the killer comes for you, you need to loop them.
you need to loop myer's as well. you do that by using line of sight and denying angles so it takes most amount of time to get to tier 3. It is not normal looping because normal looping is all about not getting hit/maximizing the time to not get hit. In his case, it is about maximizing the time it takes for him to go to tier 3 and once he is in tier 3. you use lockers to survive as long as possible to finish 5 gens. It is alien type looping.
Because it took people a very long time to figure out the condemned playstyle and the #1 priority BHVR seems to have in these changes is to ensure she can't do that anymore. Very safe to assume they never intended her to play like that.
subjective interpretation. this could be right. it could be wrong. only BVHR knows the design intent for every killer.
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I pretty much exclusively play her as killer so...
After having played her quite a bit, I still disagree. There is absolutely no reason to hook in nearly any game but there are plenty of reasons to slug, especially after downing a tape carrier.
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what about if people run lockers before you m1 them with a tape? I think you will have to down them an excessive amount of times before you can condemn anyone. that is just my opinion.
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Slugging isn't stronger on this Sadako, when you hit survivors who are holding tapes the tapes are destroyed. Slug survivors do not gain condemnation. If you are slugging with Sadako and trying to fully condemn survivors you are playing her wrong. You want to be constantly adding condemnation to survivors. If you think old Sadako was better I would like to disagree, spreading condemnation is way easier while removing it is also way easier. Either Adapt to the changes or go play a different killer if you are not satisfied. There's a bigger issue with her pub stomping games whilst also being completely countered by tapes. Her power is completely in the hands of survivors that's where I think something needs to be changed.
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I mean sure, then just hook them... but I really haven't seen any survivors doing this in my games
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It's not about strength. It's about what is fun to play as and fun to play against. New Sadako (as we for told in the Ptb) is horrible to play against and super easy to play as. I feel like I don't earn my kills when I play her. Before the update my strategic skills and micromanagement where rewarded with a kill after a lot of work. Now it's just "teleport a lot and kill people."
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Condemned against soloq is sadly much more than a minor slowdown... You can kill people with minimal effort now.
And yes I enjoyed her gameplay a lot.
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I feel like she is ruined for me.
She's super easy to play. She doesn't feel rewarding anymore. She's not strong against good teams and very strong against soloq. The Playstyle that I loved and that I fought for in the Ptb feedback is basicly gone. (not slugging)
It's about fun. Not strength.
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And no. I don't think simple number changes will help this rework be better.
It's flawed by design.
I would love to see it reverted and some of our feedback be taken into consideration.
But looking how things got this far, it's looking grim.
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Yup.. we didn’t even get a single word in response from the devs. I recall they mentioning that they want to be more transparent with the community but I’ve yet to see any effort from their part to make that statement seem truthful.
Very sad indeed :(
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