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Unaliving on first hook should be bannable
Comments
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I'll show empathy, but being disabled doesn't give you special privileges in my book. You don't get to suicide on hook because you don't enjoy the killer. At the end of the day, there's four other players in the match with you who are hoping to play out a full game, and suicide on hook early ruins the game for them entirely. The DC button already exists to cover this; it's an intended feature which discourages disconnecting from a game but it is an option. Exercise that option instead of looking for loopholes.
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Nope, taking strict action vs all types of game sabotage will eventually result in a far better playbase. You get rid of the disease ridden fruit and those around it will be likely to contract it. Meaning, People will be less tilted if other people don't int their games. Worst case scenario, the percentile of people that troll/give up goes down. Literally no one loses out besides the people inting.
The blood point thing I have mentioned before with some minor tweaks would be all that's necessary.
You can make people eat a dc, it's very very possible. People that say otherwise are just oblivious.
I know you have no idea what I am talking about but I don't just leave/afk when I get froze on with the enemy jungler hovering me for 10 whole min, the game will warn me right after that game if I do so, followed by a ban with repeat actions. The dc penalty is already lenient enough, there is no reason for this other non-sense.
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I never said whether I DC or not actually. A lot of times I Do try to push through and play anyway (especially if I am with friends) but all my friends know that if the Killer is Doctor I'm going to be completely useless especially with that addon. I was merely saying that if someone does need to DC against certain killers for accessibility reasons, I understand. If its just because you don't like The Legion's "healing simulator" gameplay, then that's completely different.
Besides, it was pointed out that admitting or advocating for DCing is against forum rules, so I have tried to be very careful to explain my reasons for not being able to effectively play against The Doctor without breaking forum rules, and here you are telling me I am selfish and entitled for NOT breaking forum rules.
Also, The Doctor isn't nearly as bad as he used to be. The visual effects of his gameplay has been toned down A LOT. That also helps me to somewhat tolerate him.
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Oh, I'm not against DCing. Well, I am, but not to the same level as hookicide. Don't get me wrong, bots are useless so DCing is still a throw, but hookicide doesn't even give your team a bot and circumvent the DC penalty. That's specifically what the thread is about.
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Holy ######### worst take.
Genuine disability? Doesn't matter, YOU MUST PLAY REEEEEE
Reminds me of the flashlight clicking debate. "If you can't handle randomly strobing lights and flashlight macros that are completely preventable, you're fault, don't play DBD."
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Yes, but that it should be a bannable offense is the problem most of us have with your post. It shouldn't.
Let me ask you this. I have told you that I am useless against The Doctor, but say I am willing to push though. Now am I being selfish because I don't DC? I can guarantee you that in the case of The Doctor, that bot will be more useful than I am. So, should I continue playing, or should I DC?
The fact remains that intentionally DCing is considered unsportmanlike by BHVR and the addition of bots is not a free pass to DC, it's an attempt by the developers to help the game not be over when someone does.
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do that and people will just afk
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Whilst I agree with what you’re saying, the “players should not be forced to play in a match they don’t want to be in” argument is flawed. Survivors have an easy way out without getting any sort of DC penalty, but killers have no such equivalent.
Say a baby killer is getting bullied by a SWF and not having any fun, they just have to ride the match out. But if you’re a survivor getting facecamped or have useless teammates you can be out of a match within a minute. I don’t think their should be one rule for one side and a different for the other.,
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I need this seriously.
People don't DC anymore because of DC penalties. Instead, people AFK or hookicides, worse than DC for other players.
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I wonder why this thread hasn’t been moved to Feedback. Isn’t this someone’s critique of an in-game phenomenon? An opinion on player experience?
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There've been plenty of threads about this already in the Feedback, and I hear the devs have already said that they're not removing penalties, so all these discussions about it are just beating a dead horse at this point.
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I didn't say he must play, I said he had the option to DC. I'm all for accessibility features letting people with disabilities play more comfortably, but the fact of the matter is flashlights affected basically every killer game and Doctor affects much fewer games. Hookicides leave his team down a man and basically loses them the game, and DCing gives them a bot that may or may not be useful.
I can empathize, but at the end of the day, there's other people in the game too who are hoping to get a proper game, and someone's disability doesn't entitle them to circumvent the DC penalty and lose the game for their team. Take the DC penalty and move on.
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If the devs don't want to remove the penalty, that's fine. I understand them wanting to discourage willy nilly DC's. But what they need to do is put a cap on the stacks. There is no reason why the penalty should stack to the point where you have to wait literal DAYS to queue up again. I believe that is the main reason why people prefer to dodge the penalty. Another possible reason is that they prefer to save their penalty stacks for when they really need them, such as when their connection randomly drops.
After playing some matches with DC bots, I'm finding that they don't really change the outcome. We're already at a losing point when a teammate DC's. I had one teammate DC on second hook, and apparently the bots are notorious for missing skill checks, so that bot died on hook before I could get to them. Another teammate DC'd while they were slugged, so their bot couldn't do anything (I was the only other person alive at that point and I was being chased). And then a teammate DC'd against an Onryo when they got fully condemned, so all that bot did was take the death stare.
So at the end of the day, the DC bots don't really change anything in the grand scheme of things. So why do we have them? If a teammate gets so mad that they DC on the first down, I'd rather just lose the match and go next than drag it out with a bot. We could all do so much better in accepting the fact that we're not going to win every match.
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The moment you notice more and more people any%-ing out of a game, it should tell you that something is fundamentally wrong with it. DC bots are a bandaid on a bullet hole.
But that doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what other people are and aren't allowed to do (if it's not against ToS).
I will hookicide if I play against a Clown because I get sick in his bottles. I will do the same against a Dull Merchant. I will also do it if my team doesn't even attempt to save me, after I ran the killer for 4 gens. The same goes the other way around. If I play killer, everyone may get themselves out of the game however they please. It is not MY right to tell them to stay.
People hookiciding want to play the game, but the fundamental flaws make it impossible or unenjoyable for them. Asking them to eat a DC penalty is the worst take I've seen so far.
Also thanks for being a smart one Pulsar. Probably the most sane person here. Have a cookie and a glass of milk.
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All I'm hearing is entitlement. You are playing a game fully aware that those killers exist in it. If you're not willing to play the game, there's a penalty for giving up early.
There is indeed an issue with the community, and it is entitlement. Went down too fast in first chase? DC. Killer is good? DC. Killer is using xyz perk? DC. If I run the killer for 3 minutes and no gen gets done, I really don't care. I don't expect much from solo Q, and I had fun running the killer. That said, if someone hookicides, we really have no chance left.
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Forum just ate my reply so here goes again:
No, it's (being) entitled to tell people how to play the game. It's entitled to think you are in the right, while every other person is wrong. (I'm not saying I'm in the right. I'm just stating a fact. - Might be worded poorly as I'm not a native speaker, so the idea behind those words might be lost in translation.) It's entitled to tell people that their disability doesn't mean jackshit.
You sound like a dictator, if you haven't noticed yet.
I can't play the game if I'm in my bathroom emptying my stomach, can I now? You read this as if we would hookicide every game when in reality it's maybe 0.5% of the games played.
Sucks if the Uno Reverse Card hits, doesn't it?
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Your sense entitlement is unreal. People don't have to play against you if they don't want to. The only reason the DC penalty is there is because people would mass DC the nanosecond they went against nurse and behaviour is incapable of seeing their mistakes so we got the penalty instead.
If people aren't enjoying playing against you. they're within their right to give you the free win.
And if you want killing yourself on first hook to be "bannable" then so should tunnelling people off hook. because functionally it's the same thing of removing 1 person from the game too early and leaving the rest of the survivors with no odds of escaping.
But of course "tunnelling is a valid strategy" and if you think that. so is dying as fast as possible "a valid strategy" for getting into the next match.
Even ignoring all that, if survivors DC against you enough for you to whine about it on the forums. maybe you should invest in a mirror? Because getting to the point of complaining about this is proven you're incapable of seeing that your play style is making survivors matches miserable.
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Holy analogies, Batman. Okay, let's break down this post.
If someone doesn't want to play a game, they have the option to DC. They eat a penalty, and their team is given a bot. Everyone loses, but the DCer gets what they wanted. If the person isn't willing to eat the penalty, they can play the game through. Hookicide is a loophole that lets them circumvent the DC penalty while achieving what they want, but in the letter of the rules, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. And you call ME entitled for telling someone they shouldn't look for loopholes and eat the DC penalty?
Tunneling off hook can throw an entire game for a killer, assuming the tunneled person knows what they're doing. It is a valid strategy that gives every other survivor on the map ample time to crank out gens unbothered, until the tunnel-out goes down again. It's not a circumvention of any mechanic set in place to let the killer achieve an earlier kill, it is playing entirely within the rules, and is an efficient strategy for the killer (just the same way splitting on gens across the map is an efficient strategy for the killer). A killer tunneling is LITERALLY doing their job as a killer (to kill), a survivor killing themslves on hook is doing the opposite of what they should be doing (to survive). But remember, I'm the entitled one, not the person playing whataboutism and making some of the most unholy analogies I've ever read.
I actually DO get quite upset when people try to suicide against me as a killer. Not because they don't think I'm "fun to play against" (I really couldn't care less if people find me fun or not to play against), but because I also occasionally play survivor, and I occasionally play solo Q, and I absolutely despise when someone offs themselves on hook because we basically get no chance at all. In fact, when I do spot someone who's trying to suicide on hook; if and when they get unhooked by a farming teammate, you can bet I WILL find them, and I WILL down them, and I WILL slug them while BMing over their slug, and I WILL let their teammates get a 3-out, and I WILL let them bleed out as they watch it unfold in front of them. There is nothing that aggravates me more than a person that thinks their time is so much more important than the other 4 people playing the game with them that they'll circumvent a mechanic set in place (that leaves their team much worse off) just to avoid a 1 minute MM ban. But remember, I'm the entitled one.
Any more fallacies you wanna get off your chest? It was quite fun piecing your post apart.
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Just take note that what you do is peak entitlement too. You want people to play the way you want them to play. And if they don't they are entitled.
Also there is no 1 minute lockout anymore. It starts with 5. 5 minutes in which one could play another game already.
Uno reverse aye?
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To be honest I will use it if the game is going badly. My reasoning being that we are all likely to die at some point so why drag it out. I'd rather die now on the hook and get into a new game. It is very painful playing with bad survivors, and from experience you can tend to see where the game is going. So if it feels very likely nobody is going to escape, why drag it out.
I've tried to keep my point brief because some of these raging essay replies are too cringe.
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I don't want people to play the way I want them to play, I want them to play within the RULES without looking for loopholes to avoid them. DCing is considered unsportsmanlike conduct. By any standard, hookicides would be considered so under the same umbrella, if they weren't so hard to differentiate from a legit attempt to escape.
5 minutes isn't high enough for a DC penalty to act as a proper deterrent imo actually, I would be okay with them bumping it to 10.
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I'd like to make a distinction between hookicide when everyone is on death hook and you have 4 gens left, and hookicides 20s into the game because you didn't like how you went down.
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Which is exactly why nothing can be done about it. Neither the game or the devs can make that distinction in every single hookicide case.
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Isn't that specifically what a support ticket report is for?
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The solution here is to just drop DC penalty. DC penalty was just a stop gap until survivor bots, so now that there are survivor bots DC penalty should be removed.
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...Not really? They do require video evidence, right? Otherwise, the report system would just be abused to heck and back. And maybe only 10% of the community records their gameplay, if that? And do you really believe a person should be banned if they did it only once? I can't see the support ticket producing any results here...
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That's what I meant. You can't submit video evidence without a ticket.
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Honestly something does need to happen, but considering it's easy for people to die on first hook beyond their own control, I imagine it's a difficult task to really approach. Honestly when they announced switching to hook skillchecks, I hoped it meant you had no way to instant die on hook, but they still kept that in for reasons.
Personally, if people are finding themselves making excuses for why they need to rage out of multiple games a night, they probably should just take a break and go do something else.
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I dont think hook unaliving should be bannable, but i dont think 4%s should really be in the game, the killer outplayed you and hooked you, the only way you should be able to get off the hook is if a teammate saves you.
If 4%s arent in the game anymore then they cant do that anymore.
Ideally the only way i think you should be able to unhook yourself should be with deliverance.
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So you are telling me to do what actually IS against the rules? Like I have said again and again, I usually try to stick it out as long as he's not running that Iridescent Queen addon, though honestly most Doctors do lately. As for them being so rare, that isn't the point. I shouldn't have to accept a penalty because of a problem with sensory overload making it difficult. Yes, it does suck for the other players, especially now that they add bots, but I don't agree that I should have a penalty. If I just didn't like Doctor that would be different. So many players DC or just give up when it's a killer they don't like, and I hate those players. But those with emetophobia, with courlophobia, or sensory overload or any other actual health reason to need to quit versus a particular killer, no they should not be obligated to take a penalty.
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If its one killer and you get them rarely, why would a few minutes dc penalty be a problem if you feel unwell if you stay in the game?
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Depends, quite honestly. Also depends on what you mean by "continue to play". As in continue to try and power gates? Not usually, no. Continue as in take chase and pretend this is a 1v1? Continue to try and get a challenge/ritual done? Sure. Will do. Is the most fun option under those circumstances.
And even if people 4% .... at least half the time I can very well see where they're coming from and am not particularly interested in playing that match either so I'm more or less glad to move on to the next match sooner rather than later.
As in continue to play DBD altogether? I mean, I play a lot less than a year ago already - and that is in no way connected to 4%-ing or DCing but more due to me having less time to play (the woes of real life T-T) and the overall sweat-level (though, I encounter more sweaty killers than I encounter sweaty survivors - then again, I'm an extremely chill killer player as well which kinda naturally prevents me from going to those places, I guess). It's already a game of roulette where only every once in a while you get a match that is actually fun in the conventional way. Most of the matches you have to bring the fun yourself and have to just do sth in the match that brings you joy and that is not connected to objectives. Whatever that may be. At least that's what works for me (on both sides).
That being said - I don't encounter 4%ing every single match I play. It happens somewhat more often in SoloQ than it used to (comparing to about a year ago), that's true, but it's nowhere near as bad as some people describe. But even if it was every single match... the same thing holds true. At least for me. Even as is I don't exactly play for the escape, so I'd just play even more for what's fun for me. And tbh, gens are somewhat low on that list if I don't happen to have Blastmine, Fogwise, Flashbang or another gen-related perk on me. Someone 4%-ing is, in that context, an opportunity - not a drawback.
---- On a side note: I'm not categorically opposed to just removing a whole lot of the hook shenanigans. For all I care people are just timed out on hook; no 4%, no skill checks, no whatever. - It just naturally follows that people who are timed out for more than a few seconds will also tab out. And then I wonder what is gained there? I can't see a net positive.
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giggling rn because apparently my post was in the wrong and got deleted but here we have Joe Shmoe demanding people dc and take a penalty if they're having problems related to disability/accessibility mid match and that's okay, yes, tell people to prioritize dc'ing in a videogame before they go take care of themselves. it's always so funny how it's all sunshine and rainbows and "please have empathy and sympathy for your team!!!" until people with disabilities and accessibility issues are brought up, then it's "well screw that guy who is standing still right now must be an inconsiderate evil person". please be trolling!!!
how about let's fix accessibility issue killers before we blame the people affected by them? blaming the people affected isn't cute and is honestly really disgusting and i think this thread has definitely crossed a line from "ok hookicides are annoying" to "how can we antagonize people already struggling today?"
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You just stated that you will force your way onto them if they try to get out of the game any other way by slugging them for 4 minutes. You force your own "right" onto the people you think are in the wrong. You aren't any better than people any%-ing on hook. Stop pretending that you are.
Lemme quote you real quickly:
"I actually DO get quite upset when people try to suicide against me as a killer."
&
"if and when they get unhooked by a farming teammate, you can bet I WILL find them, and I WILL down them, and I WILL slug them while BMing over their slug"
So you rather make them bleed out, because you are upset? Funny, that being slugged for 4 minutes + BP you've earned is still better than DCing and eating a 5 minute penalty, innit? Still not the way to go about it, as you just fight perceived toxicity with toxicity. Way to go champ. Way to go.
Hookicides aren't a loophole. If the Devs didn't want them in the game, they'd done away with them already. But alas, since they are in the game, we've got people like you getting upset, because someone else doesn't play the game the way you want them to play.
Upping the DC penalty won't change that. It would just make more people do the "loophole thing" instead of giving the team a bot.
I would say "stop being a special snowflake" but I don't think that whatever someone else tells you, will make you see that you are actually in the wrong here. (Not saying I don't get your point of view, just not agreeing with you crusading against people playing a game.)
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The Doctor is the sole reason I run CS as basekit. If he finds me and spams his power my brain will begin melting. I barely encounter him, but it's just too risky to take the perk off. I don't like that I need to run a perk 24/7 to avoid having sharp noises spammed into my head from all sides, but at least it's an option. I don't blame people for DCing against Plague if hearing that watery vomit sound actually makes them feel sick. It's unfortunate, but I can't get angry at them for it.
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Agreed. The guy's all about following the rules as well. "Hookiciding is against the rules." But isn't telling people to DC also against the rules?
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See this as a double post because holy #########, the Forums are bugged beyond believe.
Post edited by ScytheIX on0 -
What i meant was the hypothetical IF it would happen every match. Since there are a lot of people in this threat defending 4%. Because quite honestly, i would stop playing the game. I´ve noticed an increase of my teammates suiciding on the first hook and its getting really annoying, when you only have so much time to play and then you get several matches where survivors just don´t feel like playing a whole match.
Maybe replace the self unhook/struggle phase with something more interactive. Something that would reward survivors for sticking around and not instantly kill them if they tab out. After all, people have been asking for bloodpoint rewards, while getting face camped. So the logic step would be to introduce something like that.
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Yes, you should be obligated to take a penalty. No offense, but I really don't care what your reason for quitting is. It's quite simple: you don't play the game, take the penalty. If you give up the game, you're throwing for your team. It's that simple.
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Your passive aggressive tone probably had something with your post being deleted. Respect is a two-way street.
Video games aren't essential to survive, and if someone with a disability is ruining games for people because of it, maybe they shouldn't run that risk until BHVR introduces more accessibility features (which I'm all in favor for). But again, your disability isn't a golden ticket in my book. At the end of the day, I'm trying to play the game too, and I couldn't care less as to WHY you left the game, I just look at the bottom line.
But let's say we give any people with a disability carte blanche to hookicide at will, how many people do you think that is compared to how many hookicides occur? I'd be willing to wager it's a fraction of a percent.
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DCing is against the rules and already has a penalty in place. I don't want you to either hookicide or DC, but if it's between the two, I'd rather you take the avenue that leaves us with a bot and a penalty instead of finding loopholes.
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Yes, I bleed them out. I do so not for myself, but for their teammates. I'm providing them justice, in the same way I wish killers would do for me. An entitled survivor thinks their time is worth more than the other 4 people in the lobby, I think different. I will force them to either eat the DC penalty, or watch their teammates farm and get 30k+ bloodpoints each while they walk away with 5k. I'd venture to say this will be quite upsetting for them, and that's the point. People tend to avoid doing things that upset them, if enough killers adopt my mindset, maybe we can condition the entitlement out of these survivors.
You see, it's not vindictive. It is fair and just. They eat the DC penalty, or they eat the 4 minute bleedout timer with BM to boot. Either way, they serve their sentence. And believe it or not, I've had overwhelming positive feedback from doing this (a rare thing to receive as a killer). Obviously not from the person slugged.
No, hookicides couldn't be gone tomorrow if BHVR wanted them to be. The reason why we have a roadmap is BECAUSE BHVR can't snap their finger and make things happen. It takes time to implement and test things, and BHVR has a lot of priorities, between constant bug fixes, perk and killer rebalancing, new content, etc.
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I don't even remember what I posted, but I've had posts here deleted for dumber things than just being passive aggressive so that wouldn't surprise me.
"how many people do you think that is compared to how many hookicides occur? I'd be willing to wager it's a fraction of a percent."
I doubt it's under a percent. To say such things, you'd have to believe that things such as photosensitivity and phobias are EXTREMELY uncommon, which I think is pretty baseless.
Let's give a hypothetical and say the percentage was truly that small. I still wouldn't agree with the jist of going that just because it's a small percentage, more than likely this person is just trying to grief everyone else and they should've just eaten the penalty. You just don't know these things. I personally just assume that there was a reason why it happened and I move on with my life. But I don't expect you and I to see eye to eye on that opinion as you've admitted you bleed people out for doing this (claiming it's justice which is hilarious, I can guarantee you most survivors do not see that as justice, it's a video game Superman, breathe), so I don't much care for this topic as I know neither of us will agree on it.
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I don't have to believe that phobias are uncommon, I'd have to believe that people give up at an alarming rate, and a lot of it is obviously because they have a problem with something they saw. Of all the hookicides I've seen in my time play, there is none that I can evidently recognize as being anything but "I want out of this game because I don't like it". Survivor goes down in chase in 10s? Hookicide. Survivor is playing against Twins/Pinhead/Legion/Nurse/Blight/Spirit? Hookicide. Survivor didn't see 3 gens pop after looping the killer for 30s? Hookicide. Survivor sees a teammate doing a chest/totem? Hookicide.
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Like I said already mate idk what to tell you. You and I ain't coming to an agreement on this subject. 💁♂️
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I do 100% subscribe to there being something more to being on hook than just being timed out from doing (side) objectives. - There needs to be an incentive to stick around, even if the match is a lost cause. (and yes, you can incentivise all you want, there will always be petty people or people who get a kick out of ruining a match for someone else --- and for those there should be a stick. But after all the carrots than can be given have been given, so only these kinda people actually get the stick.)
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You're sounding like the Punisher. That's not a good thing. We've moved past the days where people are held in the stocks, and the villagers get to walk by and throw crap at them. It's not your place to punish them, it's BHVR's. If BHVR doesn't want to punish them then it's just part of the game.
If you enjoy doing it then do whatever, but you're not helping.
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
I'm stating facts. It's not a personal vendetta. I did not insult you even once. If you read it that way, that's a you problem, because you want to be attacked (verbally), probably you want to play the victim card even harder. I do not have a filter and I am not a native speaker.
But why would I decorate words with roses and butterflies when you don't do the same for others?
"My ultimate goal is for people to stop doing it."
You don't care it upsets others, yet you stated previously it upsets you. Which makes you emotional.
"I know their team wants them bled out because they surround me after I down them and nod at me while teabagging the slug."
Well, reportable btw. It's called: Working with the Killer. You as a Killer are reportable for that, too. Told you you are not following the rules either.
All I see you do is police people because YOU feel like it. And that's the problem. And I will speak up until people figure out that they are in the wrong. But instead of actually trying to give solutions, you throw around "fair, goal, upset and ME".
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
"You are the equivalent to the Karen at the BBQ that blames the person that had too much to drink for saying a "Nono" word, while the guy actually affected shrugs it off."
"You make a scene because you want to. Because you think thats "justice". Are you vigilante by trade?"
"Your logic isn't there. You are emotional and manipulative. You are toxic."
All of the above are direct, personal attacks, mixed in with some fallacious assumptions on my motives.
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