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Sadako Update - Good Work
Just what the titles say.
I now played quit a few games with the new Sadako on both sides and I am quit impressed. The devs did a very good job with her and she now feels like that haunting videotape ghost that chases you and lets you feel the dread. This is the Sadako I loved since the movies and now I finally got her.
From the survivor side it was a bit of a struggle to get used to her. Playing like I did against the old Sadako did not work and I got killed during my first match. However next match I grabbed myself a tape early and yes, it was a bit of a struggle. Getting hit while carrying a tape is punishing but only if you already have condemn on yourself. Getting hit when you grab a tape early just lifts a lot of pressure from you and makes the whole thing a lot easier.
My friend and I (I mostly play duo survivor) had tons of fun managing our condemn, while trying to avoid getting caught. You need to watch this and handle it a bit like a Pig trap: Do not wait until it is too late, act early and avoid getting killed. Slugging Sadakos are a bit of an issue but we managed even that (I love running Exponential or Unbreakable).
Overall we had a blast. She felt like a danger now but still is a M1 Killer that has to play by the rules. However you need to be aware of your surroundings to not get caught in the open by her. Good feeling, she is dangerous and this is how I want my Killers.
I think many complains come because people are to bold against her and give her too much. This is the same as playing against Oni: When you give him an early hit the match goes downhill very quickly. Same for Sadako if you let her build up enough condemn, you will struggle to recover from this if you do not act early.
The slowdown she now can present is quit nice and can keep the match going. When she has a 3gen it gets worse (but that is on 3gens and not on her) and she will probably win (as will every killer in a good 3gen).
The best thing is that she feels different: The mini-quest to get rid of condemn while also restricting her movement is fun and makes for a welcome change to Blight or Nurse, at the same time it does not have the "Cenobite-issue" where one teammate can send the boat over the cliff, because you can manage your own condemn.
Later I switched to Killer.
I ran her with a bit of info, a slowdown, one of her perks and a random fun perk (BBQ, Eruption, No where to hide, Sloppy Butcher) with only brown add-ons to get a good feeling (just a bit more flickering and invisibility).
My first game was 2 moris, one DC and one escape. The survivor just never took a tape, I ported to get pressure on the gens and did a few chases, boom, somebody was condemned and ran into me while injured. Of course I killed that survivor and another one alt+F4 the game. Not very representative.
The other matches where pretty normal. Some survivors still played against me like the old Sadako and got killed, some tried weird flashlight saves and died, some just had overall problems (Self-care...) and a few where quit good.
What I noticed: Once a survivor is condemned you are an unstoppable force. You can walk through survivors, you ignore stuns and the survivor is running for their life. This is great it feels like you play that Sadako from the movies where you can not escape her. Notice however they can prevent this with ease: Tapes are very strong. Just like EMPs against the Singularity they are not optional for the survivors, they are a must have for their dual purpose: They limit my mobility a lot and keep the survivor save.
The matches where I did not get any kills where survivors who juggled their condemn very good. Most did this by just grabbing, then quickly returning to 0 condemn after I hooked them (tape delivery later) and grabbing a new tape asap (3 TVs down, I lost a lot of mobility here...). This is fine however because the passive slowdown feels great.
My only suggestion would be that something should be done about Sadako slugging. But that is not an issue with here, that can be said for every Killer.
I hope that the devs do not nerf her because I strongly believe that survivors will get better against her once they are used to her. I imagine her arising to the same "issue" as pig: New and bad survivors will get killed by her, some will get moried because they did not play against her for ages but the descent ones will be fine and have a good time and only see the condemn as a slowdown (a good one).
Overall this is a big win.
Thank you devs for making this Killer good and giving me the right feeling when playing as her and against her. You took your time and it was worth it. She is great now and I very much enjoy these changes. Please keep them.
Comments
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Agree on all.
My last games with Sadako had.
- Nic Cage doing achivement.
- Afk minute one. No hooks.
- Almost NO ONE try get a tape or pick it really late.
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This just reads like a killer player trying to come up with excuses to keep a blatantly overtuned killer in its current form. Managing condemned is not just a minigame, its a full time commitment that is impossible to juggle with everything else that goes on in a game if the killer player is even remotely competent.
We've seen several experienced SWFs with coms struggling against her at this point, if a premade team can't keep up then solo queue players are essentially doomed.
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Sadako is OP right now and desperately needs change:
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Sad to hear that it reads like that just because I enjoy a horror character which I am a fan of.
Still I doubt your judgment that she is overtuned right now. She has been out for only about a day and survivors had no time to get used to her. Sadako is feeling like a different Killer when you face her right now and people are still playing against her just like they did before. Also good survivors had no time to show how to deal with her and spread the idea around.
The thing is that if you have a single survivor who knows how to handle her and another who just ignored condemn in the same lobby the match will result in a 4k because the bad one drags the others down. A bit like when you are facing Cenobite and your teammate runs to the box while getting chased or like Pig when a new survivor ignores her trap.
As my anecdotal evidence showed my "wins" are mostly because survivors messed up. Something that they can do against Trapper who defends a basement too.
Sadako still is by no means on Nurse or Blight (with add-ons) level. Those are the overtuned Killers who need changes.
Yeah, I saw that.
I still doubt that those survivors where prepared for the new Sadako and had a descent plan when playing these matches. Wait a few day until the surprise-factor is gone and then a video like this will be a good talking point.
I am not saying that there are no tweaks to be made (cooldowns, condemn-buildup and co) just that I enjoy the new Sadako on both sides and that I hope no harsh nerf will hit her (like Wraith back then) when she is not even the worst offender in terms of power level on the Killer side.
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Sorry. But she is in a state where I can't get to a single WORKING TV in time she is able to give me 5 stacks (I was not doing gens, just running around the map trying to get a working TV's tape). And that's on small map. Nope. Not playable. Sorry but this is insta-DC
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How?
Every match I play against her starts like this: Start out, notice that it is Sadako, go to a nearby generator as TVs are usually next to them, wait for her starting cooldown and get the tape as soon as her cooldown is off. That way I start the game with a tape and turn off the TV next to me so that I can get to work on the generator. Even if she teleports as soon as she can there is a roughly 1/4 - 1/7 chance that she will get me.
What are your Sadakos doing different from mine?
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That once you inevitably have to return the tape (hence get to 2 stacks) and you immediately try to get a new tape - it's very much possible you will not find another tape. Because there are none. Because killer does not chase, but just teleports and goes for "chases" only until she can use her power again
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So...we could just increase her cooldown on the teleport once again and she would be fine because TVs and teleport would be in a better rhythm?
Seems like an easy fix for her and it would also address the issue I saw in another thread where a person complained that her teleport lacks skill. More cooldown would make it so that you have to think more because you are using a valuable rescourc.
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Sure. That would be OK. But it's not OK that I just can't find working TV in minutes when actively trying.
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There is always 1 or 2 players that can't keep their condemn low even swf, not enough TVs and you waste insane amount of time running around to find one, then inevitably someone die at 4-5 gens with 0 hook state and you lose the game
if the onryo is really trying hard with add ons and slugging playstyle it's even worse, zero chance
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The condemn pressure is literally all she has. If people want to start nerfing that she’s gonna need massive buffs in other areas. She’s literally trash in every category that makes a good killer good. Most my experience playing as and against her have been people not playing against her correctly and trying to play like it was old Sadako which does not work.
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She is still a M1 killer with a funny ability that sometimes may or may not confuse a survivor into getting a hit.
The only issue I understand about the condemn mechanic is this:
Survivors should have a way to cleanse themself of the condemn to not get moried. However Sadako teleporting as well as greedy teammates can block this and you are doomed. That is not a good feeling and I get it.
As such the solution would maybe be something like: Once you get the tape there is one TV where you can always insert it not matter its state. Other TVs are an option but if they are turned off you will not be able to insert the tape but that one TV is for you.
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You can always insert it wherever you want. The problem is, that you won't be able to pick-up tape no matter what. If they created 2 extra TV's that can always provide tape - and say they always insert them to absolute edge of the map (always on the opposite side from one to the other) - then this would be just solved. It's even possible, that 1 TV would be enough (also for obvious reasons these TV's should be in quite some distance from other TV's)
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Yeah. "Tunneling is strategy. It's fine".
::BHVR decides for some strange reason to make survivors fully invincible with no drawback and for a duration of 5 mins after unhook::
NO NOT LIKE THIS OVERTUNED PLEASE NERF...
--------------------------------------------
If you can't get to a tape for 5 freaking stacks when actively trying AND NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE, there's a problem with the game.
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The thing is I am fully on your side on this, no matter which direction we are talking.
There should always be an option to get rid of your condemn, no matter how many TVs get turned off. Same as with Plague where you can always cleanse the corruption no matter if she drinks it or not.
You know from the other thread that I enjoy the new Sadako, but I want survivors to interact with my power. Still she needs to be a good Killer. However not being able to interact with the power and just getting moried is no fun. Condemn should be an additional minigame ala "get across the map without the scary ghost spotting you" and not "sorry, you tried, here is your mori".
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Agree with some of your points but I think it can be detrimental to the team if everyone is trying to manage their Condemned early, as you suggest. There's only so many TV's, and Sadakos can teleport frequently, so it pays to be mindful of who needs to prioritise tapes in the team. In a swf this can be easily handled but in a solo team it's going to be hard. She'll be alot like Pinhead now in that good, mindful team work is required and if it's not there then ggs. I wouldn't be happy if I'm almost fully Condemned yet can't find a tape because of the teleporting combined with my team mates with barely any Condemned grabbing available ones before me.
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We could do this, but how would you buff her to compensate? As this change essentially deletes the mori feature and just adds a tiny bit of slow in the kit.
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I have a question - do you need working tv to take tape? Or any TV?
From game start it should not be difficult since before she can teleport, all tvs are working.
But i need to know since i have not encountered her yet as surv - do i need working tv to take tape?
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The most based poster on any of these discussions so far.
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Yes. And that's the basis of my complaint
I am glad we see it the same. Apart from this problem, I frankly have no problem with her
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then yeah, its a problem. Tapes should be in every TV, maybe except those where tape was removed from in last X seconds. TV reset time should not be affected by that so i decide if i want to take tape from disabled TV or look for turned on TV for Sadako to loose teleport point.
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Like I don't want to butcher her. I still want for Onryo to get her passive slowdown and even mori if people ignore it. That is healthy and all good.
But not being able to cleanse when doing just it for 5 stacks? Not healthy. Not good.
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Today I had another idea: Make it so that when your teammates insert a tape the entire team gets condemn stacks removed. However to a lesser degree than the person inserting the tape (tweaking numbers). However once you are fully condemned only you yourself can remove the status. That way you can save the person who is chased or perma stalked by the Onryo while still keeping condemn as a dangerous mechanic you have to work around.
What do you think?
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I think it would be too good for SWF and too bad for soloQ. Like it would be something, but it asks a lot of your teammates - who also have to look for a TV that's not turned off like a hawk.
I'd rather if her mori mechanics was nerfed and some chase buff was introduced (more TV's, that special extra TV, longer CD for porting, something - I don't care what really. As for buffs - I don't know, but being able to phase thru windows/pallets when demanifested for some time so that she has more agency in chase like someone else proposed might not be too wild - provided it works a little like wesker (but not as bad) instead of like legion)
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Question: Do you know if the slugging Sadakos you encountered were using Ring Drawing? I don't know if anything that would incentivize slugging as Sadako beyond the normal reasons (pressure, another Survivor close by), so I'm wondering if Sadako players don't realize Ring Drawing no longer procs on pickups.
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What exactly is sadako slugging? I really don't see how it's any different from any other killer doing it now that ring drawing is nerfed
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Agreed; I hope the Devs hear the input cause this is too much.
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I think survs should be able to recive tape from any TV, tho from my matches (as Sadako) i saw almost all TVs active at the time even tho i was teleporting much to apply condemn, so im not sure if this is really so difficult (tho i can understand that and from logical point of view - tape is always there).
But i would want to tweak her teleport power because 10s cooldown to apply condemn is too frequent but 10s cooldown for teleport is too much imo.
I would want to remove cooldown from her teleport but give 15s cooldown to her global condemn.
So you can teleport how much you want but only once per 15s you apply global condemn.
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Glad you enjoy it.
Sadly I cannot share your sentiment. I played her since release and loved her the way she was.
She had a genuine skill ceiling. (Don't tell me she has one now, she does not)
She had unique interaction.
Playing Sadako now makes me sad, because I know what she once was.
It feels dull and boring compared to her former self.
#bringbackSadako
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Excuse me?
They changed how much?
Almost all the feedback git ignored and they pushed this flawed concept live while knowing what would happen.
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Exactly. They made the entire rework about global condemn and nerfed her mobility to try and balanace it. When you make her mobility weaker to an already weak killer in order to make everything about condemn, it is no surprise people are going to start playing her with a focus on condemn as well. Nerfing her mobility is what made her good and fun to play. To buff condemn at the expense of her mobility was a horrible idea. It just incentivizes people even more to do broken condemn strategies instead of playing her as a map pressure mobility killer.
They need to revert most of the changes and remove global condemn which is deeply flawed and hard to balance, and instead focus more on her mobility factor.
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Firstly, they changed how often TVs were active on both teleporting and doing tapes
Secondly, she didn't get condemned on a tape-hit and survivors didn't lose their tapes on it, only when they were hooked and anyone without a tape would get a stack of condemned if another player was hooked with a tape, destroying it in the process.
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You are right on the cooldowns.
She did get stacks for hits.
It was one stack per hit.
This could be used to "tunnel-slug" one survivor until they are dead.
This is something they actually acknowledged to be a problem, therefore tapes now get destroyed when hit.
Otherwise not much has changed from the Ptb, which is why I'm complaining this much.
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Odd, I can't recall getting stacks from hits in the PTB, I may be wrong though
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you did, but you had to be holding tape for it
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Double checked the PTB notes, y'all are right. Feels weird I never noticed, and adds more confusion as to why they removed the hook-condemned thing for 2 stacks on hit. I guess it was too easy to counter?
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It was too easy to abuse the mechanic. When Sadako on ptb was hitting survs with tape, tape was not destroyed, and thus she could just camp crawling survivor and hit them again and again when they was recovered and apply condemn to full.
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Yet ironically the majority of complaints I'm seeing are about her spam teleporting and having too much map pressure.
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Being one of those killers that doesn't do stuff like that, I hadn't thought of that possibility. I'm fine with these changes in that case.
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You are correct in that this is the majority of the complaints, but you need look at it critically and view it in context.
People spam the teleport because it is the most effective way to build condemn now. As a result, people complain about the spam because the condemn can be oppressive. However the ability to spam teleport is significantly reduced compared to before. For example, before there was no cooldown on it, now there is a 10 second cooldown. As a result, her mobility is weaker than before. If BHVR adjusts her to make condemn not a threat, then Onryo will absolutely be a worse off killer than she was previously because they have in fact nerfed key parts of her kit, aside from condemn which they have buffed.
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Her map pressure should stay without cooldown, but global condemn should have 15s-20s cooldown.
And idk if global condemn is as much pressure, just take the tape? No? Idk, i havnt play against Sadako yet, tho in few games i played as Sadako, those few who took the tape from game start, never become fully condemned.
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I don't personally think the cooldown is much of a hindrance based on the Sadakos ive seen. Come out a TV, have a quick look round, smack a survivor or chase them off a gen - your cooldown is done and you teleport. That conbined with the shorter down time for TVs allows her Repeat this ad infinitum so no one can get anything done - this tends to be how it's going at the moment.
The update, as far as I'm aware, was meant to be a choice of build condemned or have map pressure but right now players are cheesing the system to have both... but just taking an extortionate amount of time to do so.
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