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It's time for the EGC timer to be constant.
This is one area where I don't understand why the survivors need to have extra help in escaping. The timer should be continuous regardless of survivor status.
I've had a few people in the last week using Plot Twist as a way to slow the timer down, giving their team time to heal and go for an escape.
The devs have said the EGC is not there to help killers get kills, therefore the timer should not change in order to help survivors get escapes (and yes, they specifically said the reason for slowing the timer was to help survivors make endgame plays for escapes).
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Agreed.
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so your getting mad because survivors are using a perk to.. help secure end game escapes? quite literally with what you said in your post is the point of the end game collapse timer being slowed?
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doing this would undeniably help killers get kills as the timer would give survivors less time to save teammates without error when their teammate's status changes. you're trying to play the "killers don't get anything for this so survivors shouldn't either" game but this ain't it.
i do not think this will be some super omega killer sided change (before killer players jump me) but i feel acting like this will benefit neither side just because this change would make it be less survivor sided is silly.
also, personal opinion, making kills easier in endgame sounds really boring. if the survivors played around plot twist to get time for their team to heal, good on them. encouragement for teams to do something with the egc time that isn't just immediately leave is a healthy thing for the game, imo. it can lead to more kills for killer due to altruism or it could lead to trades (more points for hooking, who doesn't love points?!) or a teammate got out that otherwise wouldn't have if the timer didn't slow down because the other side played well.
removing this feature encourages instead for people to not try to get their teammate who got downed as often because they have less time, and for killers to not go for outside chases because survivors already would have a low margin of error in egc, there really wouldn't be any reason not to just facecamp a survivor and force trades as it'd be extremely beneficial for the killer to stay and not beneficial for the survivors to stay as the survivors wouldn't get much out of it, making the survivors just leave and ignore altruism. i cannot see why anyone but a killer only player would want this change to be in the game. such an unhealthy thing to encourage egc to be made more boring.
while slowed down egc does hurt killers (i know, i get it, especially if you've had a bad match) it ultimately is the less of two evils as it makes killers have to play smarter on what they should do especially when they have a survivor downed/hooked, at this moment facecamping is less powerful (especially with hookgrabs gone) so it gives more chance of survivor and killer interaction which is good overall for the game, killers just helplessly facecamping in egc is something to avoid (although is very understandable to do, because what else are you going to do?). having killers be put in a scenario where they can use good gamesense and get a ton of altruism kills feels very rewarding and very good on the killer side, and it would be a shame if that was encouraged less by an overall shorter timer making survivors leave more often. i consider myself decent on killer and i have turned the tides a LOT in egc with decent gamesense and it's awesome, which is why i wholeheartedly disagree with this suggestion.
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I believe the EGC should be neutral. There shouldn't be an element to help either side. Now that there's a perk that let's survivors prolong the timer not only risk free, but gain the benefit of being able to heal to full by doing so as well as giving their team relief from the timer to heal with far less pressure, it's time for the EGC to become a permanently fixed time.
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And, like I already explained, I disagree, and think your change would not make egc neutral.
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The time is short when all survivors still standing, means they have nothing to do and they should leave, which is why the time is short.
The time is slowed down means for survivors to help their teammate. Its still up to you that you can get a kill or not, not the killer need extra help to get a kill by EGC timing out.
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Your suggestion is not making EGC neutrall tho? You are asking to make it for killer-favored? Your suggestion will make EGC shorter time which means survivors maybe can not save their teammates.
EGC is never supposed to favor killers. It added to game so survivors would not hostage killer in match. And it is just doing fine, no change needed.
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That double standard is exactly what I have a problem with. It shouldn't help either side, and 99% of the time survivors are in charge of when EGC starts unless the killer abandons their objective to go complete the last part of the survivor's objective for them which allows them to freely walk out of the exit gate.
They can make the time a little longer for all I care. Personally I think the timer should be at least twice as long as it is now but start as soon as the final generator pops. Obviously exit gate perks would need to be tweaked. I just don't believe either side should be able to mess with EGC.
Like I said, as it is now survivors both control when EGC starts in 99% of cases and they get to slow the timer down to help them escape. It just needs to be completely neutral. Nothing more than a mechanic to end the game.
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yeah only problem is that killer can hostage the match for 4 minutes with slugging. removing speed down would buff blood warden perk.
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Lets look from another pov: They could make 4min by default and the timer not slowed down if there is a survivor down, but not, they makes the time x2 faster when all survivors standing so they dont try to "bleed" killers for 4min.
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Slugging isn't holding the game hostage. It's boring and should be discouraged, but the game ends so it's not being held hostage.
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it does end eventually but killer can make it take longer if they constantly pick you up. that type of toxicity should be discouraged. i agree.
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It's fine like this. It's time for survivors to start opening gates instead of 99ing them
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99ing the gates holds strategic value, as it allows survivors to get rescues without the added pressure of a timer.
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So does slugging for the 4k. It allows the killer to look for the last survivor.
Denying the opponent an advantageous gamestate by not finishing a certain action seems to be fine for survivors (not opening gate to delay egc) while its bad when killers do it ( not hooking to delay hatch).
Love this community bias.
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why are you making what they said into an killers vs survivors thing? all they were stating that 99ing gates has strategic value for survivors. do you even know if this person disagrees with you on this subject or did you just go on a random tangent on some person who was just... explaining a mechanic has strategy for survivors?
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EGC is inherently NOT neutral. But it can't be. It's killer-sided feature that was created to resolve standoffs - where killer would just guard both gates and survivor would just hide - until one of the sides got fed up after hour of game. So devs resolved it (in benefit of killers) by creating EGC that kills survivors if they don't make it on time.
The alternative would be all survivors escape once EGC time runs up (it would also be solution to standoffs). The real neutral solution would be to annulate the match for all the players left in game (which IMO is boring). What you are actually proposing is to make EGC EVEN MORE killer sided.
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The ENTIRE reason the EGC was implemented was to favor the killer side. It meant survivors couldn’t just hang around and hold the game hostage… in doing so it also presents a looming threat for survivors who are still present. It is entirely fair then to have mechanics in place that slow it down so that survivors aren’t forced to just beeline for the exit. Killers can, after all, open a gate to exert pressure. There is no double standard here. All you are wanting to do is take something that was designed to help the killer and make it even stronger for them by removing any counterplay. That’s not healthy for this game.
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Slugging for the 4k isn't really a strategic play. The odds of the survivor finding the hatch before either you find them or you find the hatch first are actually fairly slim.
This is in contrast to 99ing the gates which actually does hold strategic value. To go back for a rescue is risky because the killer doesn't have any gens to protect. They only need to defend their hook. Any sort of hesitation is more than likely to result in either another hooked survivor or a trade. Games that were a sure-win can just as easily turn into a win for the killer if the survivors play it wrong.
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yes right because 2 to 4 minutes aren-t enough to save someone + you don't have to deal with dying literally on the edge of the gate cuz 99 while being chased by the killer
open the gates
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Opening the gate relieves pressure on the survivors. The killer does the last part of their objective for them and there's nothing to prevent them from walking out. Plus the killer has to abandon their own objective tondo so. The fact that killers can only start EGC that way is ridiculous.
Maybe the whole EGC system needs to be reworked.
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The rework would be fairly easy.
Make EGC start as soon as the last GENERATOR is powered.
99'ing gates that can't even be "regressed" just to have infinite time to go for a save / Multi hook trade to attempt a 4 man out is quite honestly, not balanced , made even more obnoxious when survs have Hope + MFT to make catching them in endgame absolutely impossible.
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If the killer just goes and opens the gate when no one is injured or such, sure. But if I have just put someone on basement hook I can open the gate to encourage the others to leave them to die. That’s called pressure. Depending on the current situation opening a gate can be tactical. There’s a reason survivors 99 the exit gates after all.
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How about we just end the game once the last gen is completed? The EGC was created to favor killers but if it’s not enough for you we can flip it and favor the survivors instead. They did, after all, complete their objectives.
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The only reason survivors 99% the gate is to avoid blood warden. 99% the gates has probably resulted in more survivor deaths than it's prevented.
Where are you getting the idea that the EGC was put in place to help killers? It wasn't. It was put there to prevent hatch standoffs which would last as long as both players decided to stay. It was supposed to be a neutral mechanic. The devs have said multiple times that EGC is not in place to help killers and it's only function is to force the game to end so neither side can hold the other hostage. Going off what they said they intend for EGC, it should be as neutral as possible for both sides.
Completing gens is not the survivor's objective. Their objective is to escape so giving them a free escape for finishing gens is a ridiculous suggestion, but you're just trying to make an asinine argument.
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Yes, and what happens when the game forcefully ends? All remaining survivors are killed and it counts as a sacrifice. That favors the killer. They could’ve made it so that the game forcefully ends and everyone escapes similar to when a killer disconnects but they didn’t. EGC was put in place to HELP killers because any kind of stand off or scenario in which the survivors aren’t leaving is going to BENEFIT them.
Having the entity sacrifice all the remaining survivors isn’t the killer’s objective. So why do they get those free kills if the survivors don’t escape? Don’t throw stones, bro, because your entire point is asinine.
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Oh look, you learned a new word lmao.
I have no idea why the devs decided EGC should kill the survivors. The probably didn't want survivors hiding the whole time so they could have put in a mechanic to force interactions like revealing their aura even in lockers. If the survivor lives through the whole EGC then they survive.
No matter how many times you scream at the moon saying EGC was put there to help killers, you'll never be right unless the devs come out and say something contrary to everything they've said in the past.
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Potential 8 minutes egc??? For a 24 sec gate???
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As if survivors being able to control when EGC starts not enough of a survivor sided EGC mechanic already.
Teammate on hook before when the last gen pops? time to 99 the gate so we get an insta gate open and no EGC pressure!
Your post history tells me you're one of the most Survivor biased person on this forum, if you're unable to see balance for what it is, dont be giving your biased opinion.
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Not always, no. Sometimes it costs somebody else a hook state in order to rescue someone during the endgame. Sometimes it takes multiple trades. Having the gates opened can result in somebody getting left behind in the endgame, which never feels good.
I believe I've sufficiently made my case in regards to 99ing the gates.
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It's really not survivor-sided. EGC only exists to prevent the game from being held hostage. It is not there as a means for survivors to get last-minute saves, nor for the killer to get last-minute kills. Without it, survivors would just open the gates.
Remember that prior to EGC, the only reason to 99 the gates was Blood Warden.
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"EGC is not there to help killers get kills, so it shouldn't help survivors get escapes" think about this for a second longer, it doesn't make much sense
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What started this whole discussion is the fact the devs said the reason they slow down the timer when a survivor is downed or hooked is to help them get last minutes saves and escapes. My point is there shouldn't be a mechanic to help one side or the other, even if that means reworking the EGC entirely.
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What doesn't make sense? The EGC shouldn't favor one side or the other so slowing the timer down to help survivors escape in the endgame shouldn't happen. Even of the whole EGC system needs to be reworked so be it but it should be as neutral as possible to both sides.
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The timer is slowed when someone is either hooked or downed to encourage survivors to get last minute saves and escapes, rather than just leaving them behind. Again, I remind you that EGC exists only as a means to prevent the game from being held hostage. Nothing more, nothing less.
There's nothing wrong with the way the EGC timer currently works. People using plot twist to slow the timer down is odd considering you can just 99 the gates and not have to deal with the timer to begin with.
Post edited by Kaitsja on0 -
EGC wasnt a thing back then, survivors could spend 20min to rescue the last survivor to get 4 escape.
Now it has a timer which is already favor killer. Why do you think the time slowed down is favoring survivors? There is still a timer, its slowed down, not paused.
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Quite the argument.
I do see the OPs point, but I suppose my take is that EGC is pretty much fine as it is. As killer I find you're almost never gonna rely on the timer to help you anyway, and should never expect it to help you.
If you have a survivor hooked or downed, you're playing for their hook/bleed out timer to catch other players dead in hook, not the EGC timer; in these scenarios plot twist doesn’t help. If 4 survivors are up and are running for the gate, you're looking for a down, not the timer to save you... and if EGC is really that dire, plot twist has to be used with great care.
When the game has got to EGC as a killer, your fate is pretty much sealed unless you're running NOED and/or blood warden. Any kills/hooks you get at this point is a bonus.
It is a little goofy that plot twist can be used this way... but also pretty creative... but considering the only instances where slowing down the timer using Plot Twist specifically would actually do anything is when all survivors are up and the gates are open, I don't think we can blame Plot Twist for the result tbh.
The ONLY issue I could see is a player can troll with plot twist on hatch close, hide somewhere in PT and hold the game for quite a whack of time... but considering that is still probably a 4k, not too bothered.
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Having it be fair doesn't make sense?
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