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A good sign that Gen Times / Gen Speed are too fast
If Adrenaline has a high usage rate, it means the gens are getting done too quickly, too often. Otherwise, fewer people would run it.
I queue solo. I don't run it, and I hardly ever see other solos run it. That's because a solo team is very unlikely to even get to endgame.
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I run it a lot and I only play solo. Do I make it to endgame often? Probably only around 30-50% of my matches. It’s not that gens are getting done too quickly - it’s that the perk can be a real game changer if you DO happen to make it to endgame. That makes it worth running.
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They want 50-60% kill rate.
It's expected to get into endgame and finish all gens.
But in reality it's mostly balance between stomping soloQ and getting destroyed by SWF.
SoloQ doesn't have really room for adrenaline, it's better to use aura reading perks. SWF doesn't need it.
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SoloQ doesn't have really room for adrenaline, it's better to use aura reading perks. SWF doesn't need it.
isn't this what i talked about in the past? soloq would use adrenaline if they had perks slots... to use adrenaline..... you can still run adrenaline with info perks but then you have nothing else.
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I still wouldn't use it as soloQ even with extra slot or something.
I will rather use perks for gen speed to help me even get to end game, or aura reading to make overall playing without coms easier.
Adrenaline has more value in SWF, because I am confident to finish all gens and we get more value from it with taking protection hits on purpose with one gen left, then staying injured.
My killer main soul always die when I see 2/3 heals as last gen pops. You are just done as a killer when it happens. It's hard to recover from that (depends on killer).
My standard build for soloQ is Lithe, WoO, Bond and deja Vu. It works great for me. I get to escape quite often with it.
SWF build depends on my current teammates.
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Adrenaline has more value in SWF, because I am confident to finish all gens and we get more value from it with taking protection hits on purpose with one gen left, then staying injured.
i hate bodyblocking as killer so I know full well the strategy. i think if your swf, you might as just use for the people+buckle up. it is basically repeatable adrenaline for entire game.
My killer main soul always die when I see 2/3 heals as last gen pops. You are just done as a killer when it happens. It's hard to recover from that (depends on killer).
i think it depends the killer and how many people are alive. if you have a killer that has good counter to shift-w, it is not that bad. most killer have terrible lethality so even one health-state can be game-changing depending on context. I think context matters a lot in dbd.
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I hate buckle up + FTP, same for MFT + resilience.
I refuse to do things I don't like to play against.
Of course it depends on killer. I play mainly M1 killers, so it's usually end when it comes to that.
Even when there are 2/3 survivors left, unless you can instadown, or have no way out. It's simply unlikely to get a down before they open gates.
Perks and killer type change effectiveness, but it's simply bad for a killer in most cases.
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I don't play soloQ, because it's that awful right now. But if I was, then I would most likely still equip the perk.
The main reason is, that it's most of the time the only way how to get that last survivor from basement against camping bubba and so on. The health recovery + speed to get away right after is the only option how to even attempt risky save (not counting deli, because the curse is real and because this one thanks to lack of communication is even more SWF perk).
The fact, that it can help you in chase is just a bonus (but then again, it usually procs on me when working on a gen and being healthy - so whole value from the perk is to slightly quicker get to a gate to start opening it).
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last year's statistics when killers had cob overch and eroption
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To be fair the stats were gathered after the patch that buffed them, but before people fully knew about how busted Eruption/CoB/OC were. The deliberate 3-genning with those 3 in combination came later and presumably had 70-80% kill rates with how much they got gutted.
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80% kill rate LOL
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If my Killer matches were any indication (using those perks) I would be willing to raise that to 90-95% (excluding hatch). I was simply using my soloq experience (and dropping the estimate to account for that being ~60% of all matches).
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Hatch is also a form of escape, not everyone used COB/Overcharge/Eruption every game on every killer when it was meta, even if they did i still dont think the average killer would have an 80% killrate. I played solo survivor after 6.1.0 and my escape rate was still decent, probaly around 40%.
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Hatch is also a form of escape - That's why I explained with the parenthetical I was excluding hatch. Theoretically I can slug for the 4k and deny hatch/gate in the vast majority of those victories, but unless I am doing an Adept achievement, that is a waste of my time, and boring for everyone involved. Since most people aren't sweaty enough to waste their time to deny hatch, that actually artificially inflates escape rates if anything. If we were to assume hatch is a 50/50 after a 3k, that would mean most 5 gen wins by Killer only get 87.5% kill rate, compared to the theoretically expected 100%.
Not everyone used degen 3gen perks - Which is also why the stats weren't more extreme. Once people realized how busted they were, they started abusing them, which caused a swift-ish nerf to Eruption, and a delayed nerf to CoB/OC.
Solo personal escape rate of 40% - Glad you had better luck than I. I get tilted very quickly playing soloq, and when I see the corner crouching Mikaela at 5 gens who has never been hooked, my soul leaves my body in despair. That tends to snowball my losses because then I get more Survivors of that 'caliber'. Then I ragequit playing Survivor (after the match is over), swap to Killer, and make sure no Mikaela or Feng lives. When playing Killer, that frustration seems to channel into more effective gameplay, but with Survivor it seems to cause me to take bad chases/mindgames and lose quicker.
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People also escape through the exit gate tho and so it would be lower then 87.5% no? Even if the last survivor escapes through the exit gate ~33% of the time.
I dont think the average player/killrate was 3king every game, maybe you were with 95% but i dont believe the average wasnt, the killrate released before it was hard meta (but the perks were used an okay amount) was 60%.
If you want to believe it was 80% or whatever then thats fine.
Post edited by lifestylee on0 -
My entire point from the start was that people not knowing something was busted resulted in 60% kill rates, and people caught on later. My own experience immediately after that patch as Killer was far higher than even that helping shape that thought. The hatch discussion was just that a clear Killer win can deflate kill rates below an expected 100%, even if not a single gen was completed across numerous matches. You are bringing up how many branches are on trees, and failing to see the forest of the discussion here.
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Usage rate is simply how many people equip it. Not how many people get to endgame to get value from it.
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Adrenaline has always been a top10/15 perk easily people just need youtubers to say something is good before they start to use it. A 5 second sprint burst and heal when the game is getting down to the wire with last few gens is massive and worth the perk slot.
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Usage rate indicates what areas people are struggling with and most importantly, the ones they aren't.
If you dont struggle with Looping and gen progress, theres no point equiping Loop/Anti-Loop or Gen speed/Gen regression perks.
Now when the usage rate of a survivor perk (Adren / Hope) dedicated to end game is at an all time high, it lets you know people dont find looping or gens to be difficult (The core game) and they expect to make it to end game more often than not.
This in turn allows you to make a fair assumption that perhaps the kill / Hook rates are sinking and the core game requires a balance pass.
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Alternatively it means that during endgame survivors struggle the most.
That might be the case because a, all resources on map are used up b, a lot of perks are already disabled c, killer already has only 1 task and that is to camp d, endgame killer perks are quite common (like say NOED, no way out, etc)
So having a perk that helps in this situation is not that crazy to me.
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I highly doubt survivors would pick a perk that might end up be a dead slot... unless you're expecting to make it to endgame to get value.
Logic wise it makes no sense to bring an end-game build unless you expect to make it to end game.
Survivors expecting to make it to end game indicates they dont struggle with the core game.
A killer expecting to make it to end game indicates they do struggle with core game.
Why would a killer bother bringing No way out, noed, Blood warden, etc etc. if they dominate in the core game? to have 3 dead slots?
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There's no survivor perk that is guaranteed to give you (full) value. Every perk is conditional in one way or another. The best thing you can get is distortion and not loosing stack interpreting as an information that there isn't Lethal pursuer in the game. Very similar thing to bond - you don't see any teammate, so it probably means nobody is close by (or more likely you see them but it provides 0 information you can actually use in any capacity).
You absolutely can get 0 value from any healing perk (because plague), any exhaustion perk (say blood echo/fearmonger), any aura perk (undetectable), any anti-hook perk (pyramidhead), any boon (shattered hope), any locker perk (iron maiden), etc etc. It's always about bringing things, that you presume will help you the most. But it's always a gamble.
And being tunneled out (even on 5 gens) is not that rare these days. So even endgame perks are a gamble (in a same sense as most other perks are).
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you've perfected the art of saying alot without saying anything at all.
The point still stands, the rise in hope+adren popularity indicates more and more survivors are EXPECTING to make it to end game / escape.
Which indicates survivors aren't seeing much struggle in the core game and dont need perks that help them in the core game.
If survivors weren't expecting to make it to end game, then adren and hope wouldn't be seen as much considering that they'd be dead slots.
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@WilliamSN It's not my fault u don't want to see the meaning behind my words.
My point is - all it indicates people need most help during endgame, because endgame is most killer-sided. It doesn't matter if I have easy "core" game, if I consistently then die endgame - so endgame perks make sense to combat strongest killer's part of game.
The goal is to escape overall, not to get to endgame and die there...
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The insanity of claiming killer is "strongest" when all gens are done and all you gotta do is hold m1 for 15 seconds on a gate switch... oh my days.
By definition survivor gameplay is sequential, if the core game was difficult, you'd equip gen speed , anti-hook, Loop perks etc, however if you find the core game to be easy on basekit, you can skip the core game perks and go straight for an end-game Guaranteed escape build, with the likes of Adren and hope.
If you expect your team to be wiped at 2-3 gens remaining you wouldn't be bringing 2 endgame perks because *you wouldn't be making it to endgame anyway*
This is legitimately a simple concept to grasp for anyone even the most casual of survivors.
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The insanity of claiming killer is "strongest" when all gens are done
And I already wrote reasons for that... Again. Deliberately ignoring the message.
hold m1 for 15 seconds on a gate switch
Why would I waste any perks on last 15s of games if it was so inconsequential. Maybe because IT'S ACTUALLY NOT?
you wouldn't be making it to endgame anyway
I don't know about you, but when I play games, I usually try to actually win (to varying degrees - this does not mean I always tryhard) - so logically I will not make easy part even easier just to die endgame, when I could instead make the hard part a bit less hard.
This is legitimately a simple concept to grasp for anyone even the most casual of survivors.
Agreed - yet you can't figure out that people actually want help in parts, where they struggle for some reason
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> so logically I will not make easy part even easier just to die endgame
You've went the roundabout way of admitting survivor gameplay is infact easy, and people bringing more endgame builds is in direct correlation to that and therefore agreeing that the OP is right.
And again , endgame isn't hard, all you do is pop last gen then sprint to the gate, theres *no game* after the last gen pops.
The mental gymnastics you're doing to try to claim holding M1 for 15 seconds at a gate is harder than doing 5 gens is hilarious to watch.
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You've went the roundabout way of admitting survivor gameplay is infact easy
Compared to endgame yes. Overall? No. In fact, I consider the game so bad right now, that I stopped playing survivor almost entirely - just enjoying the easy part on killer.
I sent similar image already in different thread, but this about sums it up (from survivor-main's perspective)
holding M1 for 15 seconds
This mistake twice repeat says it all. Opening exit gate takes 20s. You would need perk to make it shorter (With wakeup it should be somewhere around your 15s).
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Well that’s a swf problem not the perk one of the main things that’s wrong with this game is that everyone here want survivor meta to revolve around swf sweat groups and in turn ruins solo Que and casual play in general how about instead of blaming perks on either side let’s address the main issues first then if perks are a problem then go from there
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