NOED
how about making it a non-totem perk? Survivors already have an unrestricted countermeasure in the form of Hope. give us 120 seconds as before. it would be fair. I also played trapper without one perk the whole game, and swf cleared all the totems on the map, as a result, in the end game I remain without a perk, and they are with Hope. it's not fair
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If anything, NOED should be removed from the game. It is the biggest cheese on the killer side and usually leads to kills which were not deserved leading to a boosted MMR making games more miserable for the killer. It is a crutch.
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you want to say Hope and Adrenaline are also crutches? then let's refine it, instead of complaining about the killer perk.
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if they did, then I counted on the endgame, and did not run as a trapper all over the map in a pathetic attempt to put pressure without top addons and perks
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NOED is fine, it doesn't need any changes.
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These perks are not crutches, they are rewarded for completing your goals, unlike NOED which rewards you for failing
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No. That would make it weaker.
If they did that, assuming you're using NOED correctly (i.e., facecamping with it), you'd secure exactly one kill with it, because any survivor would be dead by the time the timer runs out, and they're not even going to try. Plus, the totem allows you to know exactly where the other survivor(s) might be headed after you hook.
Part of the beauty of NOED is that it can turn a 1K into a surprise 4K if you play your cards right and survivors make mistakes.
I'm not saying you're wrong (about NOED being a crutch for some people, at least), but it shouldn't be done without addressing equally problematic survivor perks (Hope, MFT, and especially Adrenaline, which is the reverse NOED).
Also, removing NOED would gut endgame builds.
Maybe it should be made into an iri offering. That way, you can still run it on occasion if you're trying to play an particular build, or you just see one of those teams in the lobby, but killers wouldn't be able to use it enough to launch their MMR into the stratosphere with no effort.
It's a n00b stomper of a perk, for sure, and even experienced survivors can make some awful mistakes, but it absolutely can be played around.
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in your opinion, after losing 5 gens, the killer should get up and escort the survivors through the gate? what are you carrying? there are perks for the endgame, this is the style of the game. why am I not rewarded for my luck then?
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he's not okay, if only because the survivors see his aura. moreover, he is totemic. the killer does not affect the totem in any way, he cannot repair it
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Adrenaline is only strong In a SWF. Hope is problematic when stacked with MFT. By itself it is good but not that good.
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If you have lost 5 generators and the survivors are still alive you played poorly. You shouldn't be rewarded for playing poorly. So why should you speed up and get insta downs?
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MFTs that literally reward the survivor for playing poorly and getting hurt
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NOED will basically always activate or you never need it if you already won before getting to endgame whereas survivors don't always finish all 5 gens to get value out of their endgame perks. Basically they get endgame value because they did something to make it that far, whereas the killer can go afk until all 5 gens are done and then get value out of it. Also if the survivors had time to do all 5 totems and all gens you cannot really complain, because they wasted extra time to do those totems just so they won't get hit by noed... Totem cleansing time combined is more than another gen, so how much time do you need to win?
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Survivors hold LMB well and are rewarded with Hope or Adrenaline. I was waiting for the endgame - I played badly. well, don't be silly if you're trying to justify the deplorable state of the perk with my poor performance.
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You can call survivor gameplay whatever you want, but they did their objective until endgame and killer didn't do his until then... Also waiting for the endgame seriously?
I think the perk is its most healthy state yet, you get massive slowdown if survivors decide to get rid of all totems and otherwise you get noed, it is a win win situation. I would like it if there were more reasons to cleanse dull totems besides noed.
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Survivors having 2nd chance perks = good
Killer having one 2nd chance perk = bad
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I don't think we are currently discussing whether or not that is the case but rather that you maybe should be able to do something about such a perk to counterplay it?
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Who says I agree with MFT being in the game?
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the survivors will be able to unhook themselves from the hook. you can't camp them. Noed is just a perk and there is Hope to counter it.
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Just like Bloodlust right?
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no because maps suck and if it wasn't for the bloodlust the survivor would have infinite or 2-3 minute loops
and unlike MFT, bloodlust has counter
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Ah. So bad maps count when killer is chasing. But artificial dead zones don't count.
It's always survivor's mistake to get hurt, but bloodlust is needed mechanics to bandaid bad maps. Got it. I presume survivors are totally OP and need 50% base speed too
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Artificial dead zones? Which map in DBD anno 2023 has deadzones by default? There are even pallets on the edges now, lol.
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Have you seen the new Cowshed? For whatever reason it has a whole lot of deadzones now with absolutely nothing.
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I have seen it more than once. And I disagree, there are pallets in every corner. The main difference with the old map is loops don't link to the next one.
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There are so many deadzones with just nothing around I don't know if I just had several bad rngs in a row or what but i had like 4-5 deadzones every single time.
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You could, I don't know, cleanse the totem maybe?
The only change I could agree with to NOED is making it two totems and reducing the visibility of the totems. It's only problematic when killer has a hook on the NOED.
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Yes exactly thats my point and why I wouldn't want it to be not totem related but 120 seconds. You should have read the rest of the conversation instead of just assuming stuff...
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I'd argue 120s NOED is more problematic than totem based NOED. Lets you secure a kill from start to finish, with no counterplay, as well as a second kill, if you combine it with NWO at max stacks.
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Which was exactly my point... It basically guarantees you a kill with no way around it since you can just facecamp the guy you just hooked.
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If you faced a group of survivors that not only did all 5 gens but also took the time to cleanse 5 totems before the 5th gen popped why would you want to raise your MMR with end game kills and face (in theory) a stronger group of survivors?
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Your sentence had a double negative, took me five rereads to get it.
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I'm pretty sure the anti-camping mechanism deactivates once the generators are powered.
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From my experience I can say that either mmr does not exist, or it works so poorly that I don't give a damn
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Hope and Adrenaline don’t give you endurance for the duration of the match which would be the closest analog to NOED on the survivor side. NOED would simply be too strong if it was unable to be deactivated. Post exit-gate power on, hook rescues would never be the smart play.
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Noed definitely needs some changes, it's entirely in the hands of the survivors
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At the very least it gives you some slowdown? And if you cannot apply enough pressure to win the game before endgame with time that is almost equivalent to the time of a sixt generator then I don't think you deserve to win against those people or maybe got unlucky with the map or just picked a bad killer, but I don't think it is in the hands of the survivors in the sense you're refering to.
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