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Professional DBD player from best team in the world gets matched with 87 hour killer.
We all know that MMR is a meme in this game but is it actually THIS bad? It might as well not even exist if it's going to result in matches like this. I've seen the same thing happen to other streamers with 10,000 hours. Do you think there will ever been more transparency about how the MMR system actually works?
https://twitter.com/knightlight1337/status/1689278806689771520?s=53
Comments
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It reminds me back of when I started playing on PC. My literal first match as Killer, I was up against Red ranks who were clearly also not new to the game. I had two perk slots, they had all 4 with meta.
I think I got a 2k, but that was because I had 1200~ hours at that point on another system. There was no way for my PC account to know that, though. If I was an actual new player, I don't think I would've wanted to play again.
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I knew mmr was a joke when I started a new killer when this new system started and got smoked 8 matches in a row. So I never went back. I only play killer to do simple challenges to save for the next anniversary event, don't care about hooks or winning, lol.
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Unfortunately this can happen when lobbies are dodged by killers - it backfills them, and there's less in the way of matchmaking then.
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How did the killer perform? I ask because I changed platforms at the start of the year and recently got matched with one of my favourite streamers who has a few thousand (at least) hours, and I held my own. My hours are low on my new platform but I have 1200+ on my other platform. That killer could be in the same situation. Not saying they *should* have been put against Knightlight, but if there were no killers available at his level then the game grabs from a bigger pool. Or as Mandy said above, he could have been the unfortunate backfill.
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Are there any updates, or at least a word of acknowledgement addressing the fact that the current pre-game lobby incentivises if not encourages killers to lobby dodge?
We can see the effects it has on matchmaking and its common enough to warrant something being done.
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It's your backfill system, it's not working, fix it.
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I guess the solution would be locking lobbies and not allowing players to dodge them.
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Wouldn't happen if the killer can't see prestige levels or player profils in the lobbies.
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It's a huge problem. My SWF's record for killer dodges is something like 15 in a row. And then the killer who does finally take the match often gets 2 or 3 hooks total for the entire game. Lobby dodging is killing match quality.
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If that's your best idea I'm not surprised you can't fix it. Just continue to throw new players at 4000 hour SWFs and hope for the best then.
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They could implement literally anything into the game to make it so SWF isn't easy mode and the killer isn't afraid of going against them, but I suppose that would be too easy.
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If someone dodges, the lobby should be disbanded.
Backfilling is horrible solution
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you are aware that I'm not a programmer or designer etc and that the Community Team does not make decisions for those other departments? My idea is one idea and yes it would actually work in solving the issue that is lobby dodging in general - players have always dodged lobbies it's been something that's happened since the game began, maybe it's time that lobbies were locked when you join them - I don't really see anything bad about that.
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I wouldnt mind it. Better than either bullying or being bullied. Sorry people put these on you by the way.
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This.
For the love of the Entity's bright blue bunghole let the matchmaking have a chance to work. Pretty please.
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Well if SWF groups would be more balanced and give more reasons to play againts them for Killers... Killers would less likely to dodge. Also locking players in lobby is not good idea = sometimes you have to leave, you want to swap Killer, you see the same players from previous match, you see it's obvious 4man squad and you don't want to deal with them, etc. People would then just force quit the game and either go play something else because they are tired of keep loading the game or just go play something else.
Give Killers a reason to stay and play with lobby 400 SWF group. Or 3 man friends, etc. You pick Trapper, see it's obviously at least 3 players together and voice chat and you want to load into unfair, most likely unfun match? Nah.
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Everytime a Dev posts in one these topics I always ping them with the same question cause it's one of the biggest things I want to be fixed.
I dont blame our Community Representitives for the radio silence though as I'd imagine there's pretty strict policies in regards to whats appropriate feedback to send up the command chain. But if there's even a slight chance someone in the internal systems team can see it I'll take it.
The best fix to solve it for good would just be making pre-game lobbies equivocal.
I prefer complete anonymity for both sides barring gameplay elements such as choice of survivor and items since killers should be able to proactively pick perks to avoid bullying. Giving information to all would help a bit but now survivors would lobby shop as well.
Profiles, names, and prestiges should all be hidden until post game screen. I don't even want it to be an option just forced anon mode.
This would cut back on dodging a lot since it'd be a lot harder to gauge the experience of the survivors which would lead to more balanced matches which would improve mmr I'd imagine.
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I would be perfectly fine with that honestly.
the issue is that sometimes my ping is high and doesn't go down until the 20sec mark. (it's ps4, being on red when I get in the lobby is normal, it also goes down after a few seconds). so I leave to get better ping.
so what would happen then? do I have to stay in the high ping lobby?
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I still think that there shouldn´t exist a lobby. When someone clicks ready from the main menu, the next thing he should see is the loading screen for the match. No one should dodge based on teammates/players. On top of that, the mmr should consider the strength of items/addons in order to match accordingly. Players with red and purple addons against players with red and purple.
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This wouldn't work. It would take ages to programm the MMR for this and it would still most likely not be balanced and fair.
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But you don't know if the match is unfair unless you play it. And as it currently stands, if other killers are dodging those survivors then folks like yourself are used as backfill. It's a cycle. If other killers didn't dodge these high hour swfs (or perceived swfs) they were matched with initially because theyre at a similar skill level, then you'd likely never see them. So preventing everyone from dodging is likely to stabilise matchmaking in general. And there are plenty of players that dodge but don't actually want a 'fair' game, they just purposely seek out baby survivors to steam roll. That's not fair on those survivors either, and again just muddies the matchmaking system.
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Anonymous lobbies from the killer POV would be good. I've seen suggestions to eliminate the lobby, but I think it's an important thematic element. They could even change it to just show the 4 survivors in default cosmetics sitting around the campfire with the same killer POV. Killers will absolutely dodge based on cosmetics and platform, so it's important to hide those along with names. I get dodged in solo queue a lot too if everyone is on PC.
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Honestly, this needs to be addressed somehow. This is also somewhat related to prestige levels you don't want to allow players to hide - when there are high prestige survivors in my lobby there's a lot more killer dodging going on than in a low prestige lobby, and if I don't leave the lobby then the killer who accepts the "challenge" is often enough a P100 Blight who wrecks the whole group with one gen done.
So, my own solution to the problem is to leave the lobby as well if the killer leaves, and if my position is backfilled then as well with the next available survivor, the lobby is only getting more random.
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That is definitely an option. But couldn't the backfill algorithm also be changed to favor the quality of the match over queue time in the way that matchmaking does normally? I have my doubts that it would take that long to replace a player. But of course I don't have the actual data.
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It would be fairer than what we have now.
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I have 2k hours in this game and last week a have 5 matches in a row as a killer against players who have 70-400 hours. I haven't dodged a single lobby. No, it's not the result of losing, I win 90% of my games. I didn't lose a single one that day.
In july I played with a friend and had two games in a row against killers with 100 hours. The third game was against a killer with 10k hours.
I think it's time to admit that SBMM has failed a little more than completely.
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If lobbies are going to be locked, then can we just skip the lobbies instead, just like how other online games work?
In the entire time I've ever played survivor in this game, I have never used the lobby time to coordinate stuff with other survivors in the game, and I've never seen anyone else in my lobbies try to coordinate stuff with other survivors during the lobby time. Currently, the whole lobby system just appears to waste everyone's time, because there's usually at least one survivor that wants to purposely wait out the entire lobby timer, so they can last second switch their items (or last second switch their character).
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but do you know if you were the first there?
the idea is that the lobby was dodged, therefore it screwed the matchmaking. which is what put you there.
I have gone to a lobby where every single player switched to bill after me and another player were using him.
it was fun.
kinda rare
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Not only lobby dodges. This is happening when nobody dodges lobby as well.
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Another fix can be making the lobby unknown to killers just like it is for survivors. Survivors have no knowledge of who the killer is or their add-ons. Maybe making the lobby so that killer can't see which survivors are playing nor their item and prestige could be a solution.
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This is exactly what needs to be done. There is zero reason why killers should have so much information about the survivors before the game even starts. Prestige, profiles, items, and even cosmetics should not be seen. I'm not against the idea of locking the lobby either. That would guarantee that people couldn't exploit the system and I think everyone would be happier once their MMR reaches the point it should actually be at.
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It seems to me like the matchmaking favors the 60-40 win ratio than even matches. It doesn’t seem to care about creating an “even” match as much as it does kill rates and survivor escapes.
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Could we have some middle ground solutions for swf then if we were going to lock lobbies? There are of course multiple reasons people dodge but one of the main ones is swf and the majority of the community dodges because they feel it isn’t currently balanced for it and is an unfair advantage. Just bringing this up because I think a lot of players would feel upset over this change since it would feel like it’s forcing them into unfair matches.
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I wouldn't like to see that. I don't want to play against people who are livestreaming as it can make me really anxious. I don't dodge lobbies based on the assumed skill of the players, I just don't want to be put in front of an audience.
Locking lobby dodges would really hurt my experience of the game for this exact reason. Work needs to be done when it comes to the backfill system but there are completely legitimate reasons for backing out of a lobby, and preventing it entirely wouldn't be good.
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Simple but I truly believe would be effective. Could you please get this to the department who needs it?
If you don't mind I have a proposal to your suggestion. No lobbies at all. People want to play the game not search, find, sit in lobby, sit in more lobby because someone left making the timer restart, then have to do this all again because someone disconnected loading in. This caused me to not even play the other day. I dash boarded and went to Outriders.
Please for the love of god change the process to searching, found, loading in. I truly believe it could reduce some of the toxic nature in DBD. Bad loss? Into next match before you know it instead of sitting/waiting stewing in your frustration causing you to do toxic things like message people.
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this is not gonna work
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that is not the reason people that play with high prestige usually are in a swf, four randoms p100 is something really really rare.
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i am a solo player i play with a p70 ace even when there is another survivor with p30 or more the killer doesnt dodge, to be honest i dont have problem with killers dodging my lobby i never notice it, so or the problem belongs to brackets of the mmr lower than mine and the killer i play againts dont fear high prestige or this problem of swf.
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Prestige means nothing.
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It does indicate that the player is dedicated enough to invest a bunch of time into one character. I agree it doesn't necessarily mean that a p100 player will be especially good (I've seen my fair share of not so great p100s), but it does make it more likely.
P100 survivors get dodged constantly and there really needs to be an option to hide your prestige until the endgame screen.
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I have no doubt many players will not like the idea of locking the lobbies or doing away with them altogether. Mostly veteran players I'd think.
There are legit reasons to want to ditch a lobby, and some bad reasons too, in both roles. But I firmly believe taking one of those two options will over time even out the matchmaking, so long as we have the current backfilling system in place.
As for balance and SWF that's another big ol pile of difficulties.
I've heard the notion floating around here and elsewhere that many of the posted complaints are "first-world high MMR problems" that do not really effect the average playerbase much. The devs themselves seem to agree, with what little stats we do get & their responses to us proding those stats.
The problem as I see it is the balance issues mainly crop up and are most strongly felt by those in that mythical high MMR area (not counting people just regurgitating content creators) where the efficient or "sweat" play is. Luckily I'm a lousy killer & ok-ish surv and aren't often swimming around in that area myself.
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I would love it if we just skipped the lobby entirely and just went straight from "looking for match" to in a match. Also skip the showing offerings, let people check on menu in match if they're curious.
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I see what you’re saying. I tend to find people vastly over exaggerate the mythical high mmr thing. In the sense that it’s not some .01% of the population only being effected. I would say even the top 20% is heavily effected by swf. I do think though that even low to average swf groups are getting a significant unfair advantage though and I believe their stats a while back showed a significant survival increase from swf even at those lower levels.
In the games current state I think locked lobbies would cause more problems than backfilling does. Assuming zero changes of course.
Instead of forcing lobbies they should work to fix the reason people dodge in the first place. Yes some reasons are silly or they just want an advantage, but I don’t believe that is the majority of the cases although some will disagree with this I understand. I believe the majority of dodges are people simply wanting a fair game and there are many unbalanced things in the game currently that prevent a fair game.
Post edited by Blueberry on1 -
Maybe?
I have over 4500 hrs and I would love no lobbies at all. Personally I think it's a waste of valuable time just sitting there waiting, waiting, then waiting some more.
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Assuming you have already brought forth this long-time concern from the community to the other development teams while ago, and that you have also already gave them your suggestion of locking lobbies, why has it not been tested yet to see if it helps? It would seem like it would be one of the top priorities to help new players to stay.
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More like professional on pre dropping pallets and camp/tunnel.
There's no professional players in dead by daylight. The game is not esports.
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I can't wait to hear what the excuse will be when the devs lock the lobbies.
Dodging isn't the issue that makes the DBD experience miserable.
Hockey based matchmaking is.
eScape Based MatchMaking doesn't factor for:
- SWF/SoloQ
- Perks (on both sides)
- Items/addons
- Map
- Killer
So basically everything that matters. If we could magically ensure that every game played will only be with players of the exact same hockey score, the matches would still be one sided dominations. And BHVR has made it pretty clear that this is the system we are stuck for as long as DBD has an active playerbase.
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The solution would be to remove entirely the game lobby. The moment you press ready in the normal lobby, you will be queued for a game and immediately thrown into it without having to go through the middle one, which is a useless waste of time
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This would totally be fine by me. Way better than having a poor low-hour Killer getting backfilled into a lobby because the Killer who would have been a suitable match chickens out.
This would actually be worse. When I play the role which does not have the incentive, I have around 2-3 minutes (as Survivor) or 3-5 minutes (as Killer) when it comes to searching a Lobby. And I dont really want to go through this again because someone dodged.
The one good thing about Dedicated Servers is that you dont get thrown out of the Lobby anymore when the Killer quits out (I think as Killer you stayed when a Survivor left, but I dont know anymore...).
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As someone who played collegiate sports, it still really annoys me when people who sit in a chair and push buttons on a keyboard and mouse or controller are labeled as "sports".
Should just be called pro video gamers. The e-sport label is a joke.
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