MFT is now the 2nd most picked perk on Nightlight
Must only be because it's "fun", and that statistic says nothing about its actual performance. Yep, that's gotta be it. MFT is certainly fair and balanced. We must NOT nerf MFT. No sir.
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The survivor meta seems like staying injured and prerunning way earlier than usual and just holding W. It's made chases so dull.
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bro skill issue just run 20% more distance than usual
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Not that I'm saying the perk is 100% fine, but a perk being that fun actually would get that high of a pickrate, so that's not a particularly compelling argument.
It's also not particularly unfair or unbalanced... on its own. It still needs nerfing, but it's more to the tune of removing Endurance from it and addressing Haste stacking.
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It's gotten to the point where killers have their profile names set to "<killer name>becauseMFT" and of course they all hard tunnel.
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In all fairness at this point in the game there has to be some type of incentive to being injured, it happen so often especially vs a killer like the legion. There has to be some type of compensation for being constantly near death so these perks allow for an "all or nothing" approach. While it can be problematic to a degree, you can't say that these things aren't allowed cause if that's the case the perks like noed should also disappear since you didnt stop the survivors from doing all the gens therefore you deserve to lose. See how one sided that sounds?
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You'll forgive me if I take the self-reporting lobbies of predominantly sweatlords with a grain of salt, but lets say we take your logic (popular = nerf) and apply it to more things and see if it holds up.
MfT (~27%) and Windows (~35%) are the 2 most picked perks apparently in need of nerfing, so we'll also nerf Jolt (~18%) and Pain Res (~20%), but to be fair we'll nerf those half as much as Windows and 75% as much as Mft is getting nerfed, to match the rough proportionate pick rates.
Lets also nerf the top 5 picked Killers, and buff the bottom 5, remember popularity is what matters, not kill/escape rates. So up for nerfs are Wesker (~8%), Huntress (~6%), Blight (5%), Clown?!?! (~5), and Legion?!?! (4.5%). Now for buffs we get Twins (~1%), Hag (~1%), Skull Merchant... (~1.5%), Freddy (~1.5%), and Artist (~1.5%). I'm not sure nerfing Clown and Legion while buffing Twins Hag and Artist is the greatest of ideas, let alone Skull Merchant.
I'm sorry, but after patch 6.1 I never want to see a popularity based buff/nerf to perks/killers ever again. Heck, part of the reason MfT is even a problem is because Thana was hard deleted immediately after being overbuffed in that patch. Pop is mostly reverted to its old glory, so I would like to see Thana reverted to 5% or at least 4.5% per Surv. Also I don't know about your games (as Survivor), but I have faced what I would consider an absurd extreme of tunneling after the DS nerf. It may not exclusively be on me as the direct victim, but the baby Feng who dies in single digit seconds in chase turns the match into a 3v1 before we even have a chance to play in all too many games.
Now to be fair, I would hard remove MfT's Endurance. Maybe graft it onto Buckle Up instead, either or. Second, I would have the heal percentage (or more accurately not healed percentage) correspond to the buff percentage gained from MfT and Resilience. So for example, 0% healed gives full value, and half healed gives 4.5% Resil, 1.5% MfT. This is to prevent 99'ing the heal. Maybe a buffer zone for under the 20% mark where you arguably haven't quite gotten healed yet, and the Killer might be tunneling. I also wouldn't be opposed to Dark Theory and MfT having their haste numbers swapped as an alternative route.
As an aside to a common nerf suggestion, personally I don't consider haste stacking a problem, because if I as Killer lost against 4 Survivors with 3 perks each (in mid-game), why would I deserve a kill against Hope in late game? Just the same if I die first as Survivor as the 9th hook of the match at 2-3 gens, would I deserve a gate escape against a NOED user despite losing so profoundly against their 3 perks? They already outskilled/outresourced me without a final perk, I lost. That just seems like entitlement from the person who lost.
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When I see these type of message, I just wish that Pebble become the most popular perk from survivor
Just to see the biggest silence from these type of comment, or maybe, see people complaining that a pebble is way to strong for the current meta
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Funny thing is if pebble was popular killers would absolutely complain about it being a bully perk
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I love how people constantly use awful assumptions to make a 3% skill suddenly into a 20% number instead.
When it was dead hard, it was 'it extends chase by 45 second OMG' because that made it sound as evil as possible. Why not use a number of seconds? It's it because an extra .45 seconds sounds really pitiful, like it really is?
Oh, right, people deliberately do math where bloodlust and killer powers don't exist. Now I remember.
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As much as I respect your opinions, that 3% makes me play the same way old dh users did, greedy with a very valid sense of safety.
It makes a difference vs every single killer in the game.
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More conditions need to be added to enjoy the benefits of the perk, or the perk benefits need to be toned down.
If 6.1.0 Eruption was considered a crutch for Killers, I would say MFT is shaping up to be a crutch for Survivors.
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Probably
But also, I find sad that only survivor got these kind of "meme" perks... Killer don't have one... Or it's only because you make some combo
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I think it's because killer perks are supposed to be more powerful than survivors' because there's only 4 of them against 16 for survivors every trial, so survivors can spare funny perks whereas killer perks are supposed to be strong, and those which aren't are just bad. Although, I would love an equivalent of the Cage chapter for killers so we can have meme perks too
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I mean, your sarcasm is correct.
Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's effective. Bandwagons are real.
You would need to know how the perk correlates with kill/escape rates.
For example Windows is by far the top perk, but there is no hint of a nerf in the works, because it's not actually increasing the odds of escape by all that much for most survivors.
Self Care is somehow still relatively popular despite being a killer perk.
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3 is 20% out of 15.
Also where do you get your 0.45 seconds from?
In an idealized example of a 10 meter head start for a survivor, running in a straight line and against a killer with no chase effective power (like many of the roster are):
With MFT:
- 15 seconds of 0,48 m/s gain (115% killer with 4,6 m/s vs 103% survivor with 4,12 m/s) before bloodlust kicks in -> distance reduced by 7,2 meters down from 10m (distance traveled 61.8m)
- bloodlust stage 1 kicks in and gives 5% movement speed/0.2 m/s, so 2.8 Meter at 0.68m/s gain -> time to close the remaining gap is 4.12 seconds (distance traveled 16.96m)
Time to catch-up is 19.12 seconds while travelling 77.76 meters to get to another pallet or window.
Without MFT:
- 15 seconds at 0.6m/s difference -> 9 meter caught up (60 meter traveled)
- BL 1 for 1 meter -> 0,8m/s gain -> 1.25 seconds (5 meter traveled)
Time to catch-up 16.25 seconds and 65 meter traveled.
That's roughly 17% more time (2.87sec) for the chase and 19.6% more distance (12.76m) traveled.
And this is only for 115% killer, not even the 110% ones.
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You're moving 3% faster which, against an average Killer (115% against a now 103%), is 20% faster in chase. It's not a stretch of math at all when rather the reverse of saying "it's only 3%" completely undermines its value. Most powers are balanced around the survivor moving at 100%, and most powers deny bloodlust gain. To say "only 3%" is deliberately ignoring the benefits it provides.
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killers can get up to 130% speed what is fine.
survivor gets 3% only if injured and not exhausted is broken and unbalanced lol
people crying about everything.
survivors have a 5 meter hitbox.. its fine.
killers get free hits because of latency and the cheap dedicated servers... its fine
blights addons still havent been touched... its fine.
survivors lost multiple good chasing perks after the big perk changes like iron will, DH (multiple reworks)... they have to adapt.
DS went from a 5 sec stun (actually 4 because the falling anmiation and till you can run takes already 1 sec away) to a 3 sec stund (actually 2sec) is fine because killers should tunnel and survivors should adapt.
BHVR released a killer like SMerchant... its fine.. a killer should be able to hold 3 gens for 20-30min...its fine.
i would go with more stupid things but it doesnt matter.
you know it is really funny how everything is fine what gives killers advantages in chases but a 3% speed boost is so busted and totally gamebreaking not even funny anymore.
Survivors are literally forced to not use exhausting perks to have it active at all times.
just mindblowing the crying of most people. lets first fix survivor hitboxes and latency advantages for the killer side before nerfing anything, but nah you wouldnt complain about it right? because it favors you :)
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Why do you specify the steps and requirements for Survivors benefiting from MFT but not the steps for Killers to reach 130% as if it's some normal occurrence? Talk about arguing in bad faith and bias.
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If it was just MFT, it may be still tolerable. But the new, uninspired meta-build I see in my games more and more is:
- Made for this
- Resilience
- Windows
- Hope
And of course staying injured all the time, so you can crank out gens not wasting time healing. That's so incredibly boring to face.
Before the great perk overhaul, we had the situation were nearly every survivor ran the same 4-5 second chance perks (DH, DS, BT, UB, IW). It was not uncommon to find the exact same build for all 4 survivors. No perk variety whatsoever. It got significantly better since the perk overhaul, but the addition of MfT just reverted this trend, imo. More and more survivors running this exact build (sometimes mixed up with DH), making survivor loadouts as uninspired and generic as they were before the overhaul.
Thats my main concern with Mft right know, it just greatly decreases variety. And not just for survivors. If the killers face this game after game, they have no other chance than to equip 4 gen regression or play the strongest killers to compete. And that in turn makes soloQ exceptionally more miserable.
Imo, releasing MfT was a BIG mistake, with all the ripple effects the perk creates.
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Honestly, how is MFT even fun to use?
I understood when people said Dead Hard was fun but MFT isn't even that fun to use. You don't really see the benefit as a survivor, it's just a background perk that wins chases for you for doing nothing. It's like saying Eruption or CoB were fun. The only fun thing about them were that they won you the game.
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do i really have to write how easily it is to get BL? just press W on a loop for 20 seconds. didnt know i had to write it.
and imagine you dont even need a perk for it, but can you tell me why you ignored the rest of it? no arguments? typical.
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Yeah man, the 35 seconds it takes to build up bloodlust to tier 3, while actively NOT using your power, and not hitting a survivor is completely comparable to "get hit and not use sprint burst". Of course I would ignore the rest of your post, you're arguing in bad faith and bias.
Going fast is pretty fun imo and so is getting away with bullshit you'd normally not be able to as well.
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MfT is mostly fine, but both sides are arguing in bad faith here.
3% Haste IS a 20% extended chase. But a 20% extended chase can mean anything depending on how that chase is managed. So many players just play like bots and path formulaicly instead of mindgaming or catching survivors out positioned.
MfT isn't "free" like many killers mains are arguing, nor is it quite as OP as the math makes it out to be. It's still a very strong perk, but in practice, Sprint Burst is more effective. I've downed many, many MfT users with little effort but a survivor Sprinting away right as I'm about to reach them, or even when I'm 10m away and therefore denying a chase entirely, screw me over so much more.
You only need Tier 1 bloodlust to counter it, not 3, so 15 seconds is plenty. The problem is recognising that MfT is in play so you can adjust your chase and use that bloodlust asap.
Endurance is probably too much, we have Buckle Up for that now. And stacking with Hope can be a problem.
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The problem with survivor is the literal ocean of awful perks. Some are just undertuned, some simply aren't useful and some don't do enough.
But the fact that 90% of survivor perks are mediocre to useless doesn't defend MFT imo. It's yet another perk that screws M1 killers harder than say Nurse, Blight or even Spirit during her power.
If you've played M1 against competent survs using MFT you'll understand how unfun it feels to play against.
I miss the time after DHs nerf when we got a few Sprint Bursts, Lithes and maybe a Balanced during chase. That was nice.
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I think it stacking with hope is fine survivors made it to endgame so they deserve it. Killer can bring noed to counter it too.
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master strategist right there
i would use my abilities to get closer or even just hit them
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Survivors get 110% speed boost in end game making them as fast as some killers and making other killer the same as tier 1 Myers.
"Killer can just bring an easily destroyed 4% speed boost to counter it"
Make it make sense.
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You should know given your profile picture. I have downed adrealine, hope, mft users even without noticing they have some of those perks with noed. So if you're scared of that combo bring noed it should at worst give you few downs.
Ideally you kill one survivor at least before endgame as otherwise even noed probably can't save you. If you get 2 downs in 3vs1. 3K is almost quaranteed if you can chase last one away. Well one change for noed could be good to make that 4% speed boost pernament.
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I use it cuz the picture cuz I like the icon I don't use NOED cuz it's awful but nice ad hominem lmao.
And like good luck getting two downs before doors are open or 99'd when everyone is 110% and your NOED has an average uptime of 20-30 seconds. Unless you're using Blight, Nurse, Artist, Spirit it isn't happening.
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I'm not entirely against it, I've downed people using them as Pig, but 10% is certainly impactful. I wouldn't want them to be entirely unstackable, but maybe have Hope nerfed a little to 5% maybe.
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It's crazy what happens when you delete healing.
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No, the perk itself is beyond busted. 20% extra distance makes up for so many misplays. The perk needs a top-down rework.
How about we make a perk for killers where they get an extra 5% permanent speedboost if there's two gens left?
Sounds like you played against my Blight yesterday. I had my name as BlightBecauseMFT. Although I didn't tunnel anyone but I did play very sweaty.
Some killer powers are unusable around certain tiles and become an active hinderance. And 3% is 20% of 15, hence the 20% figure... It's also 30% of 10%, so it's technically 30% against 110 killers. Bloodlust doesn't exist to make up for the existence of MFT, it exists to make up for ultra safe map design, which MFT exacerbates.
Self-Care is only "bad" against Sloppy. I hate the "haha self care bad" meme. Self Care is slower on aggregate than an altruistic heal (40s vs 32s) but doesn't require a rotate to heal you, nor does it require two people to be together, with one of them being injured. It lets someone reset in a vacuum. The only reason why Self Care was ever "bad" was because COH was broken.
Don't forget prerunning 10 hours in advance as soon as a TR is heard because God forbid a killer should have to hold W for less than 30 seconds to even catch up to a survivor.
Let me make the same argument for something survivors complain about. Ahem,
Alchemist's Ring IS all rush tokens recovered. But all rush tokens recovered can mean anything depending on how that chase is managed. So many players just play like bots and bump formulaicly instead of using proper bump logic or even flicking properly.
Alchemist's Ring isn't "free" like many survivors are arguign, nor is it quite as OP as survivors make it out to be. It's still a very strong addon, but in practice, playing Blight as an M1 killer is more effective. I've seen many, many Alchemist's Ring users whiff their rushes over and over again right as they're about to hit me, or even keep using their power over and over again and whiff when they could have forced the pallet down much sooner by holding down W, screwing themselves over so much more.
Is the point evident now? An overpowered mechanic is only overpowered in the hands of someone who isn't a complete bot. Arguing "most players are bad" is arguing in bad faith. We don't balance the game around the lowest common denominator, we balance it around the level where players are playing somewhat competently and have a general idea of how to loop/chain tiles. In this scenario, MFT is so broken as a chase extender against any killer without a proper chase power.
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That wouldn't be the killer equivalent, though.
The killer equivalent would be something like a conditional 4% speed increase with an additional effect, that still requires good play to be used effectively and survivors have control over removing. Come to think of it, that sounds pretty familiar...
The actual main effect of the perk, conditional and counterable 3% speed increase, is strong but acceptable. It's all the extra stuff on top that makes the perk far too overtuned, and warrants some addressing on BHVR's part. Some of that is going to look like changing the perk itself, but I'd also argue that improving the counter-pick perks and addons would be a good direction to look in general, not just for MFT.
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NOED is the killer equivalent for MFT? But wait, I thought NOED was the killer equivalent for Adrenaline as an endgame second chance perk??
Killers have control over removing MFT? Enlighten me, how does one do this?
I keep saying this every time someone says "b-but 3% isn't even that bad" and no one wants to take me up on it. Do you wanna 1v1 on Coal Tower Trapper? You use any exhaust you want, I'll use MFT.
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To be clear, I don't actually think NOED is the killer equivalent of MFT, because I don't think killer has or needs a direct counterpart. It'd be hard to replicate MFT's conditions on the killer side anyway. I would say NOED is the killer equivalent of Adrenaline, though, it lines up too nicely not to be. My point in bringing that up was to point out that there's already a perk that almost does what you were describing there, and that it lines up with the abstract elements of MFT - conditional, removable, extra effect - nicer. The two perks aren't actually that similar because that example of yours isn't really comparable to MFT to begin with.
The killer has control over removing MFT through Exhaustion and, technically, Exposed, though that second one will only work once. To head off a potential goalpost shift- I'm well aware that current anti-Exhaustion tools are a little hit or miss, which is why I suggested improving them.
Why would I play Trapper? He's already a weak killer that struggles, and it'd only be through luck that I play him in public matches anyway. Wouldn't the more appropriate experiment (assuming we're even of comparable skill, which we have no way of knowing) be for the killer player to play whoever they actually play more frequently? This is of course setting aside that 1v1s aren't the most realistic way of testing these things since a 1v1 survivor player doesn't have to worry about preserving resources or running the killer away from generators mid-repair.
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I agree. Killers shouldn't have an MFT equivalent. And neither should survivors.
So hang on. Killers need to run 1) regression/slowdown to actually stand a chance 2a) addons/perks to amplify their power in chase OR 2b) chase perks to stand a chance without a chase power 3) info perks to counter super immersed survivors 4) exhaustion addons/perks to counter the POSSIBILITY of survivors bringing MFT (reminds me an awful lot of COH where killers should just "bring Shattered Hope").
But wait, on top of this, killers shouldn't 1) tunnel, whether because OTR/DS/DH exists or because any made up rulebook where survivors are the only ones allowed to play to win 2) camp because Reassurance/Kinship/Deliverance and because hooks grabs are gone anyways 3) slug because Unbreakable, Expo, and FTP/Buckle Up/Soul Guard/MFT.
And then people complain they're running into a lot of Blight/Wesker/Spirit/Nurses...
You should play Trapper because he's a pure M1 killer, with pure mindgame skill expression on both sides (less so on mine because haha 3% faster). Or are you admitting M1 killers get ######### on by MFT?
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Killers should be applying pressure throughout the match but if all 4 survivors make it to endgame, killers do have contingency perks to help them: NOED, No Way Out, Bloodwarden, Fired Up, etc.
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I feel like the shortest answer I can give to all that is just... no? No, you don't have to run all that.
You can, if you want to, but you can do perfectly well without any one of those. You don't need slowdown, it just helps. You can run whatever addons you want, and chase perks similarly help but aren't required. Game sense can provide a good 90% of the benefits that info perks can provide, but also, I get it; you'll pry my info perks out of my cold dead hands, they're a lot of fun.
As for anti-Exhaustion, unless I missed an update where all the current Exhaustion perks were put on a timer instead, any of those you run will help with the others, to some degree. That's why I like the idea of improving them, if they're worth running survivors might rethink some of their perk choices as they think about whether they want to gamble on facing anti-Exhaustion.
(It's also not required to face MFT, it just, again... helps. That's a bit of a theme, you may notice.)
Killers can totally tunnel or camp if they want to, they're legitimate elements of the game. Of course, because they're legitimate elements of the game, they should be balanced as such and survivors should be able to answer them, right? So the current tools to do that are, if anything, too lacking. It might be considered poor sportsmanship to do either in some circumstances, but nothing's actually stopping you.
I'm not admitting anything, my friend, I just don't see what stripping out half of the game proves. On your end, you're going to perform better because you can use all the resources on the map and don't have to care about positioning relative to your teammates (or for that matter, running into deadzones your teammates created earlier), and on my end... I cut out using my power and cut out showcasing any real macro gameplay. Don't you think that's kind of setting MFT up to look fantastic by putting it in the literal best possible scenario for its use? It doesn't seem like a particularly honest experiment to run if we're trying to ascertain the perk's meaningful strength in actual games, not least because it'd have no control sample or contrasting examples.
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My scenario is putting MFT in 1v1 chase situation against an M1 killer. If that's a "fantastic scenario" for MFT to play out (remember we're only using half the perk here), there's a problem. Why should anyone ever play an M1 killer (the other half of the game that you keep conveniently glossing over) when MFT exists?
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You aren't just pitting it against an M1 killer, you're pitting it against a Trapper who absolutely hasn't had time to set up beforehand. It's not the same as just picking a weaker class of killer (not that you can fairly say "M1 killer" is a coherent class of weak killer when some of them are among the best in the game), it's actively cutting out using their power for a skewed 1v1 that wouldn't represent a real chase in a real game.
The fantastic scenario is a killer without a power chasing a survivor that has free reign to use everything on the map immediately because they aren't in a real match and don't have to worry about the long-term or their teammates. Put any chase perk you want in that scenario and it's going to look way better than it might be in a real match.
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Yeah those meta perks blood warden and fire up lmao.
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I'm curious what Killers you consider as M1 with no effective chase power? Many of their power's are to NOT chase. Ghostface is based on stealth and instadowns. Legion is based on keeping everyone injured, so that they are never safe to rescue hooks and need to pre-run causing multiple people to run at once. Clown has a combined 25% haste+hindered difference (technically +.46 -.6, so 1.66m/s difference). Everyone else has Bloodlust which only takes 15s to get T1, so if you get outplayed for 15s you can still force the loop and get the down.
I'm sorry but do you think someone who loses against opponents with 3/4 perks deserves to win when they get the 4th perk? That'd be like if I said "Oh yeah the Killer with NOED got 9 total hooks before he finally killed me (edit: as his first kill) and we only finished 2 gens, but I deserved a gate escape!" The person who lost deserves to lose, especially if they lost against a handicap in their favor.
This final point I think you are mistaken on. "We don't balance the game around the lowest common denominator". That is technically true, we are supposed to balance around both the average and most common (or median and mean) cases. The top 5% and the bottom 5% don't matter, and MfT can only be considered a problem in the top 5% (sweat SWFs on comms). Blight (and his add-ons moreso) can be considered a problem across all levels. Everytime I ask for proof MfT gives even an extra window vault where a normal Survivor wouldn't get, I get nothing. If MfT guaranteed 3 safe window vaults where 2 window vaults then a hit during the 3rd at every loop was the normal scenario, I could see it being this boogeyman it is being made out to be. It alongside Resilience just seems to be a lag negator. So Killers are used to the natural lagvantage and lose it against these perks. Resilience saves ~.04s at fast vaults, or 40ms, which is roughly my normal latency on my own server. I can see everytime I get the pallet stun+injury I had lagvantage as Killer, but many people are unable to come to terms with this.
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I thought we had all agreed that nerfing things based on popularity is dumb. Jolt is the 2nd most picked Killer perk. Shall we nerf it? Huntress is #2 most picked. Does she need a nerf?
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Awful logic, survivors can do well without meta perks nevermind getting there with 3 great perks like windows, MfT and resilience (most commonly sometimes it's sprint burst or prove instead). Not to mention it's not uncommon to get to end game just because 3 people got two hooked without anyone dying.
Getting to end game is not a reason to throw game balance out the window. Literally by this logic Devour Hope should not be a hex and just be permanent if the killer is doing so well and survivors are losing they should just give up the game completely which is obviously not true.
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It feels awful to play against. But that's what it is. Gen efficiency on survivor, kill efficiency on well killer.
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Yes assuming the survivor has no other exhaustion perk at all, which is dumb and unrealistic. If I do the same math, but compare a survivor with MFT vs. a survivor with Sprint Burst (or any exhaustion perk), the result becomes very different:
Exhaustion perks give 150% for 3 seconds, ie. a 6 meters head start. Your chase with MFT started at 10 meters.
So, in this scenario. MFT gave you 17% more distance, but any other exhaustion perks give you ~60%. Almost FOUR TIMES MORE.
OP BHVR PLS NERF, SPRINT BURST, LITHE, OVERCOME, SO MUCH DISTANCE GAINED!!!!!!
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Fire up?
Dude have you seen that pick up speed?
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My guy don't get me started on that slightly better brutal strength, so worth giving up 5 gens.
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Those perks can be mitigated and are not always available. You can really carve down their availability with fearmonger and such since it pauses the reuse timer. With MFT, it's just always available while injured, so it's not a significant but shortly lived speed boost it's a good speed boost constantly. Keep in mind everyone is just 99ing their heals so they are running everywhere faster and aren't in any actual danger, as they'll just tap their heal to go to full health if the killer is within striking distance.
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Awful logic, Killers can do well without meta perks (and see picture below) nevermind getting there with 3 great perks like your choice of Lethal Pursuer or Corrupt, Pain Res, and Pop. My matches as Killer end before the Survivors complete the gens in more than 70% of matches, and I could only be considered great on a good day, and certainly not excellent. I also never intentionally tunnel (if you tap the gen in my face you are fair game), and I only camp at the final 10-20s of a hook stage if the Survivors greed gens instead of going for rescues. With a 50% winrate being the norm, you are going to have to lose as many matches as you win.
My point with end game is that it is clear the Killer already lost if they couldn't secure a win (or even a single kill) against 3 perk Survs by then, Hope just secures the victory. It isn't Hope itself and haste stacking, but the entitlement of winning a match someone was so outclassed in and deserving of losing that is absurd to me.
The Devour 'by this logic' would certainly apply if you locked in Devour stacks and the totem when reaching endgame. The Survivors had all the chance to cleanse the totem, or insta-rescue/leave people on hook to deny stacks, and if they greeded the gens before cleansing Devour then sure. If the Survs popped the gen the second the Exposed was revealed, then the Killer only gets perma Exposed. If they had 3 people on hook at 2 stacks, the 4th Surv rescued everyone sequentially and the Killer waited out the final gen pop for free Moris, then by all means. You are probably going to only get 2 kills with the Moris, but you do you.
End game is the last chance to make up for failures as Killer. I'm fine with a perk that says "you have a harder early game but no challenge late game" for Survivor, and that is essentially what Hope does.
I had a Freddy game just before the Xeno patch (for a daily) where I had my 2 totems cleansed before the second hook, which means all I had was my 2 remaining perks (that they weren't failing skillchecks against sadly, maybe because it was while OC was still bugged to not give the skillcheck if you tap the gen). I still managed to win before endgame. 3 MfTs, 3 Windows, 2 Resils, 2 Hopes, and a DH (I even kept swinging into that DH because I was mixing up who had it), and yet it didn't matter. I didn't even tunnel as the least BP Survivor got ~16k BP. This is why I find complaints against Hope and MfT to be jokes. I'm good, great on a favorable day, and I have hearing damage from a previous job, so that means plenty of people should be better than I. If I can get a 4k against 3 MfTs and 2 Hopes, I don't see why anyone else is having problems.
(I don't even like Freddy, I just P9 all Killers and Survivors for the charms. Working down the list on Pyramid Head and Nea now.)
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