Medkit nerf was the final blow for survivor role
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I think there is a middle ground between 8 sec heal and 24 sec heal. Also, even before nerf kill rate was 60% and now they choose to not publish.
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Many inexperienced survivors won’t touch gen if injured. Instead they will waste time to find a healer so the outcome for that is in my post.
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According to nightlight, the kill rates are even worse now that healing was nerfed. You can say what you want but....
Survivor is strong right now.
Both roles can feel weak and strong. Depends on the players, the load out and the map.
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survivors strong?! During last year survivors had major basekit nerfs. You are funny. But only official BHVR stats could shed some light on where the balance lies…
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Pre nerf Self heal efficiency was NOT a solution to bring it more in line with SWF. And as for wesker kill stats.... its not like even if it was 80% it would be legit anyway. The amount of times I see people just give up first hook against wesker is insane because he is/was the most played killer but might be falling behind xeno a small bit. I've even seen people admit to "I will kermit first hook if I get xeno or wesker".
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This is the sad truth... but then it leads to a call for further nerfs to perks and toolboxes which just makes the game even worse.
Looking back I can see how OP CoH + medpack was and I don't even mind the nerf to only get one heal out of a medpack. But the nerf to heal time is what makes healing now especially laborious. Especially, as you say, most killers now run sloppy so it's never a standard 24s. It's way more and if you get interrupted, which is often the case as killers now have more time to find you, then wave goodbye to any use out of your item.
Maybe medkits don't need a change and Sloppy needs a nerf. But something needs to change.
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Your really gonna keep this up yes?
Survivor got perks like Made for this, Adrenaline, sprint burst, lithe, windows of opportunity, resilience etc.
These are very strong perks.
Comp swf still dominate public matches and go for hundreds of wins in a row.
Toolboxes are still unchanged. Bnps are arguably even stronger. In some chases they ARE straight up stronger.
Vaulting speed was buffed and apparently too strong.
Survivors got hud Icons to better coordinate.
These are just some of the buffs.
Survivor in general is in a very good spot right now. Soloq isn't. That nothing new, has been awful for a long time.
So please don't make the situation sound worse than it is.
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which team has done 100 wins in a row? You meant killer main streamers?
nothing you wrote implicates that survivor role is at good spot. Only stats in all mmr could show that. Other than that- wishful thinking.
Btw toolboxes were nerfed first a couple years ago. And yes BNP was nerfed.
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Honestly the main thing I'd like is the great skill check bonus nerf to be reverted on heals, thats the part I hate
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Ok. Please take a look at knightlight on twitch when he plays with his team. They play in a 4man swf with only one perk per survivor.
Kill rates across all mmr don't mean much. They don't show how the survivor died or how the match went. A killer that has not played the whole match and memed but got all survivors in end game with a cheeky bloodwarden doesn't mean killer is too strong. Just that the survivors got fooled.
If the killer was very good and went for 8 hooks and still had a 4man out doesn't mean survivor is too strong but that the killer played less optimally.
I dislike the stats bhrv offers because they are very vague and arent a good base for a good discussion.
Toolboxes are still extremely oppressive. BNP is stronger in 3 Gen situation and as some players have found out, give only like 2 seconds less compared to before if paired with the best toolbox.
You disregarded all the strong perks I mentioned.
Sorry but again : survivor is in a good spot right now. Anything else is wishful thinking.
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"Oh no, i can't instantly reset after a chase." OH NO.
Cry more.
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Haven't watched that particular streamer but I trully doubt he has escaped hundreds of times in a row since none of those I have seen could do it. I mean Ayrun, Sweht, Skermz, Mish etc.
BHVR stats don't represent real life but anectodatal cases from imagination do? A few memes can't impact stats of thousand of matches.
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Why you cry? It is just a game...
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two...and a half issue with that tho. afaik even their escape streak hasn't passed the 50 yet (and hens and the boys haven't gotten to 100 either). I'm also not sure if the top 0.1 percent going into pubs is representative in any way shape or form. Not to mention these are people who have played together for years, literally thousands of hours.
Takeaway though: the best of the best surv players can't get past 100 but the best of the best killer players have virtually no issue getting streaks of 1000+ wins.
All that being said: very true, general kill statt mean very little. Killstats that exclude players with less than half the available perks unlocked, and excluding the first 20 matches on a killer, would probably give a better indication of killrates (also potentially exclude the top 2-5% of players in terms of killrates on a given killer)
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Let anyone else heal You?
Im using healing build. I can heal You under the hook before killer can react to unhook notification (if skillcheck trigger).
Using empathic connection means You see me everytime You are injured. I can assure You, that if You add your travel time to my healing it would be lower for You healing via medkit. You dont need it. You never did.
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Dont trust nightlight.
Their stats are player input. Not everyone will post all of their games. Lot of people, if not most, will upload only the best plays (for some reason, one of them being frustration after lost match, ao instead of doing screenshot, people are going straight next match), so stats are unreliable. Unreliable to the point noone should use it to something more than fun.
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I guess the healing meta will come back sooner or later. It's been good that there've been changes to these perks, but as it's named, it's a meta and metas come and go. Most likely there will be something that will bring medkits and self-healing methods back and be stronger again, probably to gutter the already stale and boring hit and run, kick gen, go away meta that's been around ever since the perk overhaul of 2022. Let's just hope they keep things changing because it's what makes the game interesting, if not... It will suffer again from stale gameplay for God knows how many years.
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But the stats from bhvr are sometimes saying even less....
Im just taking the most reliable source.
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The killers that have gotten 1000 wins are one blight main, am I wrong?
It's a blight main, using the strongest perks with the strongest addons.
Tunneling from the start.
Every game.
Just imagine, knightlight and his team would not use their comp ruleset and use whatever they want.
I would gladly see the result.
Also, because that was a hot topic as well. When they played against the "best" chess merchant, they used their comp ruleset as well. Just imagine they didn't do that and used 4 bnps and completely stacked builds with a map offering of their choice.
Do you think the match would have gone on for 50min?
These players handicap themselves hard. I wonder why.
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Then you should choose neither.
If the choice is to be wrong because unreliable data, and being wrong because unreliable data, then its better to accept one know nothing.
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Well. Then we can't assume anything. But what should we discuss then?
We dont know if Wesker is the most played killer because the players that say that they see him all the time could also be really unlucky.
We also don't know that killer is strong or weak at the moment, or that survivor is string or weak at the moment.
You see what I mean?
I take the most reliable source and due to nightlight collecting data on various aspects of the game, I find their information at least good enough for a discussion. Sure, they are not perfect. But they are the most reliable source out there.
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Only real issue is solo que is bad team mates
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I am sure killer mains would flip instantly if kill rates in official data would be 20%. This narrative you support is likely because outcomes strongly favour killers.
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My friend, you would do well to read what I write. Please stop gaslighting me.
I don't support any form of narrative. I support what I see in my games as survivor and killer. I support what I see in my friends games as survivors and killers. I support what stats say and what other players here on the forums say that also play both survivor and killer.
Just a little advice. You should maybe try to play killer as well. Playing one side too much makes one very subseptible to the popular "us vs them" - mentality. This is very unhealthy for a good discussion because it doesn't leave much room for good arguments.
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Solo Queue is 100% to blame, a bigger issue with the current meta is just tunneling
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actually only one who is gaslighting is yourself- denying official data, trying to sell BNP nerfs as buffs and then some.
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Also just looked at other comments from you in discussions- you defend camping. It is quite clear how much if ever you have played survivor
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It's almost as if there are exceptional people that should not be used as a point of reference....
Idk if that wasn't clear in the previous post. The whole point was to make obvious that some people (be that eternal, be that hens and the boys, be that that blight or one of the idk how many killers who eventually stopped their winstreak somewhere between 200 and 500 wins) should not be the measuring stick. Hence me suggesting to exclude the fringes from stats. Both Eternal and that blight and people like them would be excluded from those stats - precisely because they tell you very little about what's going on in most matches for most people.
.... this has gone way off topic at this point though (tbh, I thought it was a different thread, was so confused when the notification mentioned medkits...) so I'll politely excuse myself from the discussion. If in doubt let's agree to disagree.
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Well yeah. If our data are things from nothing, then we should discuss nothing as matter of fact. We can still share our opinions, but no real conclusion can be made, and nothing should be stated as facts.
And i think the opposite. Data from bhvr is more reliable than nightlight. I already stated why i think nl is unreliable, and its to the point that we can only have fun with this and nothing else. As for bhvr data. Its reliable enough, that knowing reasons why its inacurate, You can more - less predict exact statistics, OR AT LEAST use current data with context of error.
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Again, gaslighting.
I have 3300h in dbd. It is true that I play around 70% - 30% killer - survivor.
Thank you for looking through my posts.
You can see there that while yes I defend camping, I see it as a necessary evil.
There are killers in this game that cant hold up with survivor efficiency.
For these killers, camping is, by far not always, a necessary step if they play to win.
I encourage you to be more open minded and dont just gaslight people into a narrative. I play a lot of killer and also a good amount of survivor. I understand when 3 gens pop and the wraith has one hook, that they can't play nice if they want to win. If you can't understand that, that's on you. But I will tell you that you will have way less fun in dbd if you only see the games balance from one viewpoint.
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What data from bhvr is really reliable?
The kill rates they publish honestly say almost nothing about matches. They don't say anything about the balance of the game. I stated before why this is the chase.
We can discuss about that, but I can agree with you that no stats should be taken as hard fact but looked at with a grain of salt. Not nl or bhvr. We should always look at the information given and try to interpret and analyse it rather than just be like: "look! Windows of opportunity if one of the most used perks! Mist he OP, must nerf it!". That's the wrong way.
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I agree that these players are very good in their own right. I dot want to go into who is really good at the game and who isn't because that's heavily biased and doesn't fit the discussion.
However, is it not part of the game?
Nurse is not fine. We all agree on that. God nurses should not exist because it's dumb that you can go on hundreds of wins in a row without addons or perks.
Same can be said about these swf. They are rare for sure. But is it therefore fine that they exist?
All I wanted to say is that survivor is in a good spot right now. That is about the role as a whole. If players play the role less effective, then that doesn't mean that the role is just straight up bad. Same can be said about killer.
SoloQ is hard. But not because survivor is bad. It's hard because of the lack of communication, therefore lack of efficiency and the huge amount of misplays that accumulate to losses.
I actually think that dbd is probably in one of the most balanced states right now.
That is my point.
However, balanced doesn't mean the most fun.
Agree to disagree.
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I think you need to look up what gaslighting means. But your POV is completely clear to me, I believe it to be ridiculous. And -yes- agree to disagree.
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You tell me the whole time that I only play killer and that I'm a biased killer main that enjoys camping and "ruining" others fun.
Am I wrong?
I don't think you understand my point of view at all.
Just one honest question: do you play killer?
I am a pig main with 2000h solely on her. So my games are pretty hard. Pig is not that strong you know. That's why I see camping sometimes as a necessary evil.
I also don't think killers like nurse or Blight (with certain addons) have to tunnel or camp to win in most of their matches.
And if you want to go that route: agree to disagree.
Next time your look at someone's post history, please take your time and read some of the posts.
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Well. Just because BHVR cant into statistics, does not means data they provided is unreliable. Its just poorely collected and delivered. Like the last data about perk used. those statistics does not concidered timeframes, adept challanges, tome challanges, effect of fresh, and much more. Tho data on its own is reliable. In contrast, data from nl is put manually by players, who often, if not in majority, does not provide data of ALL their trials, which means everything - from perk or killer usage, to escapes/kills, is nowhere near reliablity. The only thing that we can assume from nl, is that both killer and survivors players on avarage, show more won trials than lost. But there is 4 survs and 1 killer, and yet not all survs pasted their screenshots, and we dont know what those killers concedered as "won". Of course there are players who share, or at least try to share all their maches, but "try" means its not always the case. Data from nl would be at least semi-reliable if we would new what % of their matches people shared.
We can discuss over bhvr data. Discus over what statistic errors bhvr made, and how those can affect data. We can discuss over how data should be collected and presented. but about nl. There is actually nothing we can discuss, except what is true "according to nightlight data", which cannot be taken equally to "dead by daylight data".
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That in itself is true. My wording was wrong there.
What I meant is that the data is not really expressive.
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Yes, this one i can agree with.
Unless BHVR will provide us complete statistic analysis, only thing we can do is to provide our personal experience, and maybe backup some other data sourcess. Yet all of them are unreliable to some degree, and with differend error range.
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That's the sad part.
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So basically, the nerf did what it was supposed to?
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it sure did
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