killers should not have addons that give them a fifth perk
i'm talking specifically about the sloppy butcher addons, especially since medkits have been gutted so heavily. n even worse some addons have both debuffs in one addon. i really don't see how this is fair as where some killers only have 4 perks and 1 addon, some killers have essentially 5 perks, and another addon. i don't think particularly think the blindness and exhaustion addons are that bad because from the top of my head i don't think they can be applied at the same time (except for maybe huntress, but even then they only last for a period of time), or at the very least they have a timer on them.
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The killer is a single player vs 4 others. Not really the biggest deal if addons allow the killer to get similiar value of a perk
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and soloq can be 4 single players against another single player? maybe im missing ur point. addons are meant to enhance the killer power not give them another perk, i dont see how applying sloppy debuffs is enhancing a killer power? maybe u can explain that to me
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So wanna talk about items too?
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sure! i'd love to know how items can replace a perk for the whole game
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i totally agree! i'm getting so sick of killers having those addons and encountering sloppy all the time
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Tbf, half of these addons are so situational they arent even worth it, Knight is one of the best examples of it.
Also, most of these addons only apply Mangle or Hemorrhage, not both, and Hem is pretty bad on its own unless you keep harassing the survivor trying to heal.
Goes without saying that others addons are just better, easily outclassing these, i think Wraith and Huntress are the only ones you can make a case of about them being some of their better ones, but everyone else is just meh.
Worth mentioning, that while Killers have addons, survivors have items, which can be game changing, Toolboxes can greatly speed up repair speed, and dont get me started on BNP, Medkits allow survivors to heal themselves at a decent speed or outright heal themselves automatically with the Syringe, the Keys give you aura read on your teammates (essentially Bond) or even aura read on the killers, plus opening Hatch, or the ever popular Flashlights which dont need any explaining.
So yeah, you cant talk about how Killers addons can be a 5th perk, while survivors have items that themselves can be a 5th perk.
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and yet if they are so bad why are most of the killers in my games running them? unless u are running built to last (which in my region, i can count on 1 hand how many people i've seen run that), all items run out, bar bnp and syringe, which u get two uses out of (however i can acknowledge their strength)? i would also love if u could please also explain how flashlights don't need any explaining, because to me, and a large portion of the player base flashlights are considered the worst item in the game.
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You are still on a team with 3 other people regardless if you queue solo or swf. Powers applying status conditions is an enhancement.
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Do i really need to explain how devastating a flashlight save is for the killer?
Could mention how Pallet Blinds became considerably better with Light Footed, wasting the killer's time quite a lot, even more if they actually lose you.
Also, we're talking about 4 survivors, not one, so 1 toolbox can be 4, even 2 alone can be a problem, yeah they run out eventually, but their impact on the match can be big, this is specially true if used to repair an important gen quickly, which can easily take one chase.
Medkits can reduce the pressure the killer makes considerably (main reason they got nerfed to begin with).
And i already mentioned how Keys give you aura read on both teammates (permanently in the case of the obsession) and on the killer.
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It goes on a case by case basis. I will say, that Wraith’s addon that applies Hemorrhage and Mangled should lose one of the two effects, that one truly is free Sloppy Butcher and I agree with you on that one. But with most killers those types of addons are not really equivalent since they typically involve using the killer’s power and some are harder to apply than others.
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tbh, i never use this addon on wraith i prefer using perk for this effect. Every one looks just better. Splitting this effect would make it even less apealing.
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Flashlight vs flashbang? You get definitely more use out of flashlight.
Medkit vs self-care? Time difference is definitely interesting.
Toolbox is kinda category in itself and effect can be increased multiple times by perks.
You want to tell me that slowing heal with addon is stronger than that? It's not really free effect, you have to give up usually better add-ons than that.
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let's talk about Bill's 5th perk, which all survivors have by default.
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Nah, that doesn't fit the narrative.
I guess SWF having most information perks by default is considered worse than slower healing in addon...
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Do i need to tell that Mangled and Bleeding are throwaway addons? Nobody in their rignt mind use them instead of actually helpfull addons.
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So survivors should not have an addon that gives them a fifth perk too right?
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what addon would that be?
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medkits are more often than not 1 heal, at most 2, at 33% of base healing, self care is 35% of base healing, faster with botany
the only thing i can really get behind is toolboxes, but with the amount of complaining ive been seeing about them i imagine they'll be next on the chopping block anyway. but then again, i still don't really see how u can really equate them replacing a whole perk
i never said slow healing addons ARE stronger than other addons, but in my region they are being used significantly more than most addons (in my games anyway, with the killers that have said addons). i just dont think killers should be given the ability to add an extra perk, and then potentially another strong addon eg white blind warrior + different addon
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and yet almost all of the killers i go against run them anyway!
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out of all the "free perk addons" you complain about addons that give mangled lmao? Why not weskers and pigs free corrupt addons lol
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it was just an example? i don't think i've ever run into those addons personally but my opinion would still apply to those, which addons are those?
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oh wait i've just now realised the ones i think you're talking about, i don't think they are quite as bad considering like once the trap is off she doesn't get anymore? or when you spray like the effect is gone, my issue with the sloppy one is that there is no way around it other than not being hit with power (easier said than done with some killers)
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Botany works on medkits too.
Build to last, streetwise can get your medkit/toolbox to level that it can't even be replaced by perk.
Items are definitely on level of most perks and they have synergies with other perks.
And one guy talked about basekit borrowed time (even buffed version than used to be), so survivors get to play with 5 perks all the time.
Boon totem gives effect to other survivors, so you can increase that number even more.
When you like to talk about add-ons so much. We can talk about medkits add-ons.
Insta heal addon is basically Second Wind, which you can use whenever you want.
Scyptic agent is endurance effect on command too.
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Legion having an add-on that inflicts broken if you mend yourself is completely unnecessary & unbalanced. How many times does a survivor have to mend themselves because other survivors are running away and they get penalized for mending themselves.
Sloppy itself needs a nerf. They should either revert it back to its old state of only inflicting mangled which was fair before and absolutely needed now with so many players abusing this perk. Hemhorrage is just too much of an advantage and is especially punishing if the killer has other aura perks like BBQ, Bitter Murmur, Nurse's Calling, Nowhere to Hide, etc or has scream perks like Ultimate Weapon, Infectious Fright or that Knight perk and you've spent a lot of time healing 50-75% for example and then have to move and lose all your heal progress for risk of getting caught. It's even worse if you're healing someone else and are in mid heal when the killer finds you due to any of those perks mentioned and both of you run and one or both get downed as a result. This was much less of a problem before some of the most popular aura & scream perks were added (especially Nowhere to Hide) or started getting abused (like Infectious on Wesker with his huge damn terror radius) and it should be reverted now with how broken it is especially in the solo queue.
Or at the very least it should be made like Mettle of Man where the 3rd of every 3 hits inflicts hemhorrage for Sloppy Butcher and it has to be built up for 3 more hits to inflict it again (where every hit would continue to inflict mangled). That would be beyond fair after medkits and healing perks were trashed so badly. I pitched this idea in the past to various killer players and they liked it.
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That would make it so useless... (Sloppy) It works only on M1 killers, what's the issue?
If you hate it so much, try We'll make it.
That add-on on Legion is really bad btw, if it works, they would win anyway, because survivors tried to heal. You don't want to discourage survivors from healing as a Legion.
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I'm confused... What exactly is an add-on supposed to do if it doesn't have some kind of significant effect? Are they just meant to boost existing numbers? Surely it being unfair or not is dependant on how good the Killer's power is? 🤔
Furthermore, couldn't one say that a Commodius Toolbox with BNP and/or Max Extra Charge add-ons is each about the same power as a perk? Like Fast Track or Prove Thyself? 🤨
Couldn't one say a medkit with a Syringe and Max Healing Speed add-ons is about the same power as a perk? Like Self Care and Botany Knowledge?
I mean they are one complete use... but there are up to 4 of them for the survivor side... how many times do say... Serrated Jaws apply on a Trapper trap? I don't think anyone is gonna say Serrated Jaws on Trapper is OP...
I think you need to give some specific examples my guy.
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Gens can be done so fast that there's no contest, but in spite of that, mangle/hemorrhage add-ons somehow aren't fair?
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as survivor we got 1 of the strongest perks in the game added to basekit back in the day almost every play run it an now everyone has it for free freeing up a perk slot for something else
we also got the hud update which is full of huge amounts of information which feels like having extra perks
1 whos; being chased.
2 when gens are gonna pop so you can on gate
3 when someone's on a gate switch
4 when someone is ready to picked up
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It's not even that strong it's psychological.. sloppy is overused since healing nerf and it's getting old now, if they want to "shake up" meta maybe shake that one up, remove hemorrhage from sloppy
I think I never seen a Wraith or Spirit without sloppy it's a bit bland
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Killer is already the weak side and you want to nerf them more? Wow.
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Why not just remove killer add-ons that apply debuffs and then give killers a fifth perk slot
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this has to be bait lol in what way shape or form is killer the weak side?
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I guess having a map gives survivors Detective's Lunch. That's kind of a fifth perk. The only problem is, ######### is a map? I don't know her.
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I mean survivors have toolboxes which replace gen speed perks and saboteur, maps and keys to replace aura reading perks, medkits to replace heal perks...
The problem isn't the add-ons, it's that healing is awful so mangled & hemorrhage is pretty meta right now.
However I agree that the difference of add-on strength between killers is a problem. I don't want them to be standardized but they shouldn't make some killers OP while being useless on others. Also, insta-down add-ons need to go.
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Look at https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=pick&shown=pick%7Ckill%7Cdist&start_days=28
Almost every killer fails at BHVRs goal of an average killrate of 60%.
Meanwhile, for my thinking, far too many killers cant even reach 50%, which is barely a 2K (and we all know how this 2K happens sometimes - NOED, Endgame-Camp)
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i take nightlight stats w a grain of salt last i heard its not a good indicator of current stats because half the games aren't even entered in, correct me if im wrong maybe its changed since , from my knowledge, the game was currently sitting at 60% kill rate across the board which to my understanding is where bhvr wanted the game
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This is a false statistic. it only takes into account non-hidden Steam users.
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Nightlight is self submitted endgame screenshot data from mid-high mmr players.
It doesnt show the "full picture" but the amount of data it does have is enough to draw informed conclusions.
And right now the killrates are in the low 50s high 40s , which indicates either killers are undertuned or survivors are overtuned.
And from a recent hens video about his "comp journey " where otz and other extremely high skilled killers were getting 4-6 hooks a game, its safe to assume survivors have a *bit of an edge* to put it lightly.
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from my knowledge
where did you get that knowledge from?
there is few killers around 60%, but definetly not all killers.
Nightlight is not perfect, but it's best we have. There is not really reason why rest of community would have completely different results than what gets submitted to nighlight. Would it be different? Yes, but probably just 1-3% changes.
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Agree about exposed add-ons, and that's coming from a killer main. It's boring to play, incredibly unfun to face, and promotes unhealthy learning for new players too imo.
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bhvr released the stats no? a while ago yes but last they released the game was sitting at 60% kill rate
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Those are pink. Which is OK imo.
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We never had more than 3 killers on/above 60% and rest went usually all the way to 50% or below.
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Toolbox replaces Saboteur.
Medkit replaces botany knowledge AND self-heal.
Stim add-on replaces For the People
Map replaces Clairvoyance.
Key addons replace Bond, fogwise, empathy, object of obsession and other aura info perks
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