Xeno is now C-tier
You now have a killer that has a very difficult attack to hit with one of the skinniest hitboxes in the game, that is VERY punishing to miss, that can be kicked out of his power, that is forced to lose distance to break the turrets that kick him out of his power. He's basically a worse version of Nemesis, and a much worse version of Pyramid Head.
Just delete the killer from the game at this point.
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I already have stopped playing him and went back to Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Oni and... Pig, which, in my opinion, is strong because the build-in slowdown is soooooo much better than any gen-regression-perk 😅
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Xeno was just reverted to its PTB state, where no one complained about the punishment being too much. You guys just think it's awful because you got used to the bugged + buffed version.
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I just don't understand the logic of nerfing his tail attack movespeed when it was bugged the last 2 weeks and not applying most of the time. At least see how 2.0m/s is when it is actually being applied and not just reactionary nerf xenomorph.
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kicked out of his power? seriously? i was looping xeno near 3 turrets and they aint do ######### to xeno.
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Multiple turrets don't stack their power regression, but when placed correctly, the Alien can't destroy them all in time, before being knocked out of it power.
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^ this.
Nobody asked for this buff in the first place and if they just would not have buffed something which did not need a Buff in the first place, there woudl have been no discussions.
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Ok, this collective gaslight by never survivor players is kinda getting old tbh. Please stop acting like this minor nerf butchered the killer.
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So let me get this straight... Xeno was considered very good during PTB somewhere like A-tier. Then they buffed an aspect of him that nobody complained about. Then two weeks later they reverted that to the same values as PTB and now he is C-tier?🤭
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This is the usual reaction for every Killer Nerf, no matter how mild it is. Killers claim the Killer is "gutted" and dont play the Killer for some time. Usually after around two weeks players realize that it is not as bad as they thought and go back to playing the Killer.
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I vividly remember you guys said the same thing when spirit got nerfed. Went on with all of that BS about how terrible she is because they introduced some actual counter play.
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It IS an odd choice to not just fix the bug and see how it plays out.
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No one considered him A-tier in the PTB.
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I wouldn't go as far, but he is mid aka B tier now. It's not horrible but just nothing interesting to pick him over like the rest of the cast.
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It was also an odd choice for BHVR to buff something nobody had a problem with (even more so when that thing caused issues with multiple killers), but it's even weirder for killers to pretend like Xeno is suddenly terrible when this was such a non-issue killers complained about this being buffed instead of Xeno's add-ons.
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Can you please tell me what type of killers are in your C-tier list?
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The funny thing is if you don't miss your attacks this "nerf" literally means nothing LOL but people will refuse to see it.🤭
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discussions are positive. your being too negative.
xeno was roughly average. they gave xeno a buff to make turrets less effective. this gave opportunity for xeno to be a stronger killer if the killer player was competent. since then, they have reverted change so turrets are effective. xeno is not garbage because... it is not like survivor have 7 turrets with no cooldown's but at same time, the effectiveness of tunnels, stealth and tail strike are mildly less effective.
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But why does any of that matter when this is the only thing they "nerfed"? He's literally the same killer. I don't see how he sucks now that he has a penalty for missing his attack... like any other killer in the roster.
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There have been more than a few posts that said they wanted some buffs to the tail attack. Bigger hitboxes where the most common but since that didn't come, making the cooldown less punishing was the next best thing. So that's not quite true.
I wouldn't go as far to say Xeno is C-tier but it's obvious that with the fixed cooldown and the nerf on top of it, Xeno is a lot weaker than before. The worst part is, that there was no indication that 2 m/s was too much because we never saw it work properly. So there weren't any valid complaints about that either.
Nobody asks for the bugged cooldown to return but the devs were comfortable increasing the speed to 2 m/s. Why not test it first? Because 1.2 m/s feels pretty bad and with how easy it is to miss a tail attack, I see killers playing more M1 killer than using the actual power in the future. Which doesn't make much sense, when the anti-loop should be so oppressive, that survivors use turrets to give themselves an edge.
But when the tail attack is so punishing, that playing M1 killer is the better choice, then this becomes obsolete. Which in turn removes the slowdown, that these turrets provided.
I guess you can push it off as a skill issue but that would put Xeno in a position similar to Singularity. A killer that can be good, as long as you are incredibly good with them. And at that point, why not play Blight and get better results? It is not very encouraging to try and learn a new killer and get punished every step of the way, only to get mediocre results when you do become better.
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It just shows nobody wanted him to be fixed. Everyone was so happy with their new op toy.
Xeno did not even change like you said, he is still same killer.
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Yeah. This does make sense. Since the 2m/s wasn't applying properly we didn't even get to see if it was enough of a penalty for missing your attack. It would make more sense to fix that bug first before making number adjustments.👍️
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read @dbdthegame post. "You now have a killer that has a very difficult attack to hit with one of the skinniest hitboxes in the game, that is VERY punishing to miss, that can be kicked out of his power, that is forced to lose distance to break the turrets that kick him out of his power. He's basically a worse version of Nemesis".
tail attack cooldown movement means that turret make you lose distance and end up with passive unlimited free health-states which diminish the time efficiency of the killer. the turret diminish xeno's stealth, ambush tunnel opportunities and reduce his chase time tail strike effectiveness. Alien is better than Nemesis and Demo when turrets are not hard-counters. Alien is worse when turrets are effective.
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Tail striking turrets counts as a miss as far as the recovery delay is concerned, and if you're not playing with Xeno's best add-ons, often times you cannot M1 them without losing your power. So, regardless of whether or not your accuracy when tail striking survivors is 100%, this does not mean "literally nothing". Try playing killer instead of just being a sweaty SWFer all day.
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To be fair, I would have preferred if they had held the additional slow on miss back until the midchapter to see how stats change with the bug fixed and turrets adjusted.
Though, I do think it makes sense to increase the slowdown for missing since spamming M2 until you inevitably hit woth hardly any repercussions is just not very good game design, imo (though I think it could be up for debate if only a survivor is a valid target or if both sirvs and turrets are valid targets).
But the changes do by no means make him C-tier. He now has a skillfloor for his M2. And of course, if you won a bunch of matches the past two weeks without already having or having acquired that skill since then you're having a rude awakening now and will lose a number of matches until you either drop far enough in mmr and/or improve the M2 hit-miss ratio.
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⭐️~If you don't miss, you don't get penalized~⭐️
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Now post a clip of an invisible hitbox blocking a perfectly aligned tail strike and Xeno losing 3 miles of distance because of it, or the tail attack phasing through a survivor entirely because they were at point blank range and the hitbox seems to lose all coherence at that range.
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I’ve been doing just fine with xeno.
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Another Boop enthusiast is born. Welcome 🐽
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I think I will enjoy Xeno despite the nerf. I find the tunnels extremely satisfying to use.
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They where not op. Please reconsider what you call op.
Xeno was strong in general and maybe too strong for your average casual public survivor group.
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The last part hits spot-on for me. Xeno imo is like Singularity all over again. A good killer with too high of a skillfloor. I never like killers with super high-skill floors(reason why I stay way from nurse and blight) and play and learn killers that are slightly easier to learn like Legion. That said even then at least Nurse and Blight get better results if you master them than either of the last two killers. Why put in 100s of hours in a killer to be on the same level as say a plague or Oni? It really upset me bc I really really wanted to main xeno but since day one of release it has been a complete uphill battle with so much losing(btw mmr sucks bc it felt like I have been paired with survivors of my skill set yet with this killer) with little to no results of getting better.
I'm not even that upset about the nerf if they made xeno tail a little more consistent or made its hitbox slightly larger. Plus on top of that as others have said her tail hitbox does feel bugged since I also felt I missed hits that should been hits the last few days. Even had a bill who just walked right through my tail attack and did not even get s stretch from it. For now, if I want to play a killer with a range attack I just play nemmy, his whip is more consistent, can be dragged left or right, and can even break pallets.
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As expected. If The Singularity was nerfed being absolutely terrible and barely played, obviously The Xenomorph was not going to be spared. We have a game where 90% of the cast is not viable or are forced to play with their best kit of addons to stand a chance.
I simply don't understand how they bring out again a killer who repeats the mistakes of the previous one, no one likes to lose control of their power. Back to Wesker by Daylight, I guess.
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Wesker holds his crown as the best design killer of recent releases. At this point, I think the devs have peaked with him, everything is downhill from here it feels.
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Great now placing a turret actually does something, something minor but something
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The thing is: we don't really know what happend. If they only rolled back Xeno to its PTB version no one would bat an eye. According to the documentation they went two extra steps, made turrets stronger by making them more generously to place down and not only implemented the tail slow down that wasn't working before, but also increased the penalty further.
If that was the case, there would be grumbling, but in the end killers would just play with a more fair, slightly "nerfed" version. But many players, myself included, experience a far steeper performance drop, missing shots that telegraph as clear hits and survivors easily dodging 8 tail strikes in a row. Its not that the killer got slightly nerfed and now everyone is just whining, something changed on a fundamental level, that we all can't put out finger on.
BHVR probably did some tail code optimisation that scrambled something up. I actually expect that they will clear this up Monday or Tuesday, as the Alien is not behaving like it should, but people all over are overreacting: one side claiming that Xeno is now trashtier and shall never be touched again, and the other side coming down hard via "now you see how boosted you were! You deserve this misses! ". I think most people don't realize that the tail code got busted up in the update. At least I hope so. If not and I am wrong with this assessment: RIP Xenos
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Actually Pig was my first main killer in the game because I love Saw. I went over the Freddy, because NoES is another big Love for me. I will never forget my Amanda.
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“Survivors having counters is bad” sums up this entire post.
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Indeed. Its what butchered poor Spirit and made her extremely unfun to play. Rest in peace, Rin.
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Nemesis is, in my opinion, a great contrast to Xeno.
Both have difficult to hit and punishing M2 attacks that are that difficult to hit because of how strong they are; Tentacle Strike and the tail attack are both really strong chase abilities, provided you can hit them. Both are punishing on miss, because otherwise survivors would have no counters, due to them shutting down the typical survivor tools like pallets and windows.
But, to take the comparison further, let's take a look at those abilities and the wider powers they're attached to. Both have a barrier for entry, Crawler Mode for Xeno and Contamination for Nemesis, but I'd argue Crawler Mode is a lot more consistently available and doesn't, as people love saying, require three health states to down like Contamination does.
Further, both powers have a secondary element. Nemesis has his zombies, inconsistent and weak, but Xenomorph has stellar map traversal and a little stealth on top of that.
Conclusion: Xenomorph post-nerf is better than Nemesis, and since Nemesis is already a strong killer, that means Xenomorph is doing just fine.
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Quite impressive how an additional 0.75m/s over 3 second on a miss makes Xeno a worthwhile consideration to play instead of Nurse, Blight or Wesker...
And yet without it Xeno is apparently only as strong as basic Myers, Trapper or Pig without RBT add-ons. 🤨😶
I'm quite amazed at how this value can make such a huge difference between being among the best killers in the game, to relegating to among the worst. Truly incredible. 😏
Maybe at 1.575m/s Xeno is perfectly balanced. 🙄
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I’m pretty sure the tail hitbox is bugged now after the nerf and that’s why it feels bad right now. It’s literally going through survivors now sometimes and not hitting them.
The nerf to the cooldown movement speed was 100% needed, even when the previous movement speed bug didn’t occur there wasn’t enough punishment for missing.
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Personally, I think Nemmy is better than xeno post nerf for a few reasons. One: I think hitting someone with your Tentacle is much easier than the tail since unlike the tail the tentacle hitbox doesnt just stop when you hit an object and you can be drag left or right which is much better than dragging the tail up and down imo. Two: in pallet loops nemmy is much stronger than Xeno when he is in tier two or three bc even if you miss someone at a down pallet you at least get a pallet break whereas xeno doesnt have that benefit. If you miss a tail attack at a down pallet you get nothing, at least with nemmy you get a pallet out of the way and force the survivor to move out of the loop. With Xeno you have to wait out the missed cooldown and have to break the pallet meaning the survivor going to make much more distance on an xeno than a nemmy.
To me the only real advantage xeno has over nemmy is the map travel since nemmy zombies are not always the best but what good is traveling the map fast when you can't land tail hits consistently? Is xeno bad? No I still think xeno is a high B or low A killer but I do think the skill floor for xeno is too high and nemmy overall is slightly better. Also, I agree with most who say that xeno tail right now is bugged bc I have had times where I should have hit a survivor only for the game to tell me no.
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We have no idea if the nerf was needed because of the bug. Nerfing things due to a bug state is a bad way to make balance decisions. It really wouldn't have hurt to have kept the 2.0m/s cooldown considering that placing turrets was also buffed.
It would be like saying that nurse blink distance needs to be buffed if she had a bug that was halving how far her blinks go.
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In all fairness to that, not everyone plays PTB. It's not available on console and not even all PC players mess with it. This isn't a case of "Killer players were fine BEFORE" because your just talking about a small percentage. People on console are alot more likely to be affected by this change.
The thing is this doesn't feel like a nerf from 2.0 to 1.2. This feels like a nerf from 4.6 to 1.2. Alot of ppl are just saying to at least give that 2.0 a try.
Post edited by LordGlint on8 -
If the bug had been a consistent issue that happened every single time then I would agree. But it wasn’t.
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Otzdarva, Scott Jund and I think Hens did as well, they all put him in low A or High B tier, in the sense of they were not sure at that point...
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It wasn't some rare issue that happens 1 out of 1000 times. It was happening pretty frequently. Certainly enough that you wouldn't be able to guage reliably if 2.0m/s was too much or not.
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The question that should be asked - why play Xeno at all now when there are similar killers who's power is easier to use and more reliable? His uniqueness was ability to apply pressure by hitting with tail at range, making him dangerous if he comes close enough while being undetected. Now you just put a turret nearby and listen to beep intensity - either Xeno pops up and wastes time hitting the turret or tries to get through losing his power and becoming M1 melee killer.
We now have a killer who's power can be taken away by survivors if they play smart or who can get punished severely if power was missed to the point where killer has to think whenever it's worth to use it over M1 attack. Ask killer players - how much fun that is.
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On top of that some ppl, like myself, dont even bother with the ptb bc of the long queue times. Im not going to wait 30 mins to play one match as a killer. Most ppl who play ptb are either streamers who do killer with friends or ppl who really dont mind the long wait time. Also judging a killer strength in a ptb is kind iffy bc there is no mmr in matchmaking. Ppl who thought xeno is a high A in ptb most likely went against survivors way below their skill set.
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Sounds like skill issue to me.
Nemesis doesn't have that much of a difficult hitbox, you just need to practice it and get a feeling for it. I've gone against Xeno gamers who have hit me from above these:
And around corners. So you cannot convince me that his hitbox is "tiny" or very difficult. Nor is it THAT punishing, missing a hit has down for literally every killer.
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