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Highly Controversial Flashlight Opinion
So this is definitely gonna get me flayed alive and/or burned at the stake by the entire community, but...
I actually like the flashlight ban and I think the game is SIGNIFICANTLY healthier overall without them.
Ok now that you've all thrown your tomatoes and spat your curses, let me explain. There are really only two types of players that use flashlights. Those that know how to force blinds and abuse them in countless ways to torment the killer and be a constant annoyance that does not inherently make the match harder but DOES without question make it far more annoying and frustrating in intense matches, and those that are trying to be like the first but either have zero luck and can never position themselves correctly to make the save in time or just don't fully understand how flashlights work.
So my point is, what do flashlights even do? Buy you a few seconds where the killer can't see their screen? Instantly punish you for attempting to pick up someone you just fought to finally down because you couldn't position yourself in a perfect way or didn't think to? Allow for clicky-clicky spamming to be toxic?
What are you really missing with them gone? They honestly do literally nothing but enable toxic behavior, bullying and abusing, and are very skill guarded. They either make uncatchable survivor try-hards even more uncatchable and obnoxious to deal with, or provide literally nothing of benefit. Where's the essential core gameplay?
Keeping flashlights gone doesn't make any huge difference, except remove HUGE chunks of core toxic bully behavior. Like for real, ALL it's changed is significantly reduce toxicity. Significantly. And blinds are still a thing with flashbangs, they function much better, although they can still force blinds at pallets, but that is what it is.
All I'm saying is, the game is healthier and far less toxic without flashlights. i see no real reason to bring them back, except the fact that all the bully squads will screech from their rooftops to get them back. But is enabling toxic meme-y behavior really what's important? is toxic streamer/gamer bro behavior what SHOULD dictate the norm for this game? I really don't think so.
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Aint no way. They are coming back and they should. You would force casual players to bring a perk to blind killers and be altruistic. Not only that but perks that require to be paid for in money from licensed survivors being Jill and leon.
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The only way a flashlight could be considered toxic is if a Killer injuring someone is considered equally toxic. I'd be glad to be rid of clickies to make sure my soloq teammates actually do gens for their flashbangs instead of throwing by never touching a gen in their life though.
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if you consider toxic survivors having flashlights annoying being the sole factor as to why flashlights shouldn’t be in the game… you need a serious reality check. toxic clicky survivors following you all game for a flashlight save is a detriment to them, and beneficial to you. those who follow you with flashlights aren’t doing gens, so that’s (considering it was 1 survivor chasing you) 2 survivors not doing gens which is insane pressure on them. plus toxicity is subjective. if survivors being quote unquote “toxic” to you is bothering you, stop playing the game. it’s that simple. you can’t just be like “umm well actually i’ve had bully survivors spam flashlight clicks and blind me all game, so flashlights should be perma-banned”. that’s on you for letting it get to you, not on the rest of the community. people who use flashlights for genuine reasons shouldn’t be punished because a few people are upset that a survivor used a flashlight on them.
and last point of argument i’ll make is, you can’t just have blinding killers behind a paywall. leon and jill are the only other ways of getting blinds (not including event firecrackers, which are limited time btw) so for starters challenges that require blinds are now behind paywalls? that wouldn’t make any sense nor would be fair, and secondly people shouldn’t have to pay to blind in general.
moral of the story, perma-banning flashlights is a terrible suggestion and shouldn’t come into fruition, thank you.
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1, flashlights are the sole reason some people play this game. It's much more interactive, then sitting on gen whole game. It's already noticeable on queue times.
2, flashlights are one of few defenses against tunneling. If killer decides to tunnel someone out, there are basically 4 things that can possibly be done to prevent that a, flashlights/flashbang (require item) - the best solution considering chain blinds exists (killer can fully loose survivor altogether) b, sabotage (require item or perk) c, bodyblock (ineffective - it only postpones down a little and costs you repair time of 1-2 survivors that will need to heal) d, buckle up for the people combo (requires 2 perks, good positioning, no body blocks from killer and not being found + only postpones things and risks (even though it's not huge risk) 2 people on the ground)
3, as mentioned in first point - flashlights promote interactions with killer. The alternative is to genrush and there already are people here complaining about length of matches as flashlights are not in game.
4, removing base mechanics dumbs down this game. If the cycle like this continues (yes continues - there are already quite a number of mechanics gone from game - like lightburning or survivor hiding as viable strategy (ehm ultimate weapon and nowhere to hide are best examples why hiding is no longer viable game strat)), the game will have specifically 1 way to be played making it that much more boring
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I know that it's soon coming back and that it will for the better, as some players only play for the flashlight blinds and the beamer is considered by many to be the most fun survivor item, but I am also feeling it.
Without flashlight ťmy matches are much more chill and way less stressful..and as a result, so am I. I still kill survi in, but also started again memeing with them or letting a couple go, Scott free.
Taking away options is never good, that's right, but I am thoroughly enjoying my vacation.
BTW, remember when Nurse was kill switched because she could get stuck in a stone or while kicking a gen and people wred expressing their sense of freedom and joy?
This situation here is kind the same.
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That's what I'm saying. Flashbangs and Blast Mines just feel more earned, and they can be just as effective. Flashlights are just outdated and leave way too much room for exploits and abusing. It just promotes toxic behavior and makes people waste time.
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Flashlight are one of the most technical and interactive tools survivors have. It would make the survivor experience more boring overall if they didn't return.
They can definitely be a pain, but there's ways BHVR could address bully squad tactics without removing them. At least there's a base game perk to completely nullify flashlights.
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Yeah this is the kind of response I was expecting. Actions that do literally nothing to further the game and serve literally no purpose but trying to antagonize and aggitate the other side is definitely NOT the definition of toxic. At all.
But yes, I do concede that having blinds be paid only would be a bad move. I didn't think of that. But I will say flashbangs feel more earned, as someone else pointed out. They function better for the game's current state.
I'm not getting into the debate of toxicity and the response to it here, that's a pointless venture, but I will state that my point isn't that flashlights are annoying, its the fact that they literally only exist to be a nuisance and don't really benefit those that don't use it that way. not often at least. They're tools that primarily are only used to further a try-hard squad's ability to bully the killer into an unwinnable match and/or push them into a high stress match. They just aren't good for the health of the game, no matter how you look at it.
Yes, tunneling needs more preventatives, but do survivors really need 15 different ways to invalidate a killer's hard work? If you spend your time on a chase and finally manage to get a down, is it really fair to have 15 different ways to have that pressure instantly revoked? It's a tough topic, I know, but try to understand what I'm actually saying instead of just opening the "toxicity is fine" survivor privilege book.
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There's a perk you can use if you're unable to learn how to play against flashlights
Post edited by Steakdabait on4 -
I actually love going against "bully squads". But the difference between bully squad and a baby survivors that can't finish single gen before they get totally destroyed on 5 gens is.... Killer's skill level (in comparison to survivors). Like don't get me wrong. I have had games where no matter what I did, I just couldn't hook anyone. Then they started to tbag. And it felt horrible. But then I learned.
And what happens now (usually, not always) is either 4K, or survivors giving up (because they can't really bully), or actually fun back & forth. Actually I enjoy these matches WAY more then going against genrush squad. With genrush the problem is, that you don't actually get to chase. You will be led to those few pallets that can't be outplayed and those that HAVE to be broken. And by the time you do that, chances are the game is over (provided they don't do some bad mistake or you didn't outplay someone). Contrary to that - flashlight squad will give you ample time to chase and destroy strongest pallets (and play around those others). With a bit of game sense, they will not get many saves (yes they can get a save or two, but not a lot - you need to feel where survivors are hiding and what is far enough to pick up even if you face survivor and so on).
The point is - it's toxic to you only because you can't play around it. It's the same way as people calling wraith toxic when he is camping (it's boring, not fun, lame, but absolutely not toxic).
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After six months: Raising and lowering the survivor's head is considered very toxic and must be removed ,I suffered, got tired, and felt very sad because of those heads, and removing them will make the game a much better place
After 7 months: All survivor items are very toxic and must be removed. I hated seeing Leon heal himself. It's very toxic. I also had a hard time seeing Dwight using the map. It tired me out so much! And I'm tired of seeing Jake using the tool box. I'm just afraid to chase him when I see him carrying this tool box. The keys have to be removed, especially the broken key. I'm tired of that Michaela tricking me with the broken key so I chase her. It's not fair at all. Everything is toxic. Everything!!
I will give you a useful summary: No matter how hard you try to remove toxicity, players will always find a way to be toxic, and guess what, toxicity can be considered anything
So either accept the toxicity and don't take it seriously, or don't play any online games
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I will cry because blinding challenges would be so much pain with only crackers and blast mine.
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We need flashlights back. People are being more productive and do gens instead of trying to blind me.
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you are full of SH.
You are trying to make excuse to not get rekt by flashlight surviviors I assume.
How am i gonna be saving my baby survivior friend that is getting tunneled? how is blast mine gonna help us?
Stop being killer main who can't play if someone has a flashy.
SKILL ISSUE.
Flashlights are the only fun factor as survivior, bhvr can't ever delete them without losing a lot of people.
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Soooo using a flashlight as intended, according to you, is “abuse”…. You cannot “abuse” mechanics or items that are purposely in the game.
Also, literally just face a wall. Flashlight are so easy to counter.
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We have two main options here. But definitely removing it is the worst one.
If they remove it, then survivors will need a buff (or killers a nerf). Removing an item that allows survs to save each other or just have fun blinking at each other's faces requires different ways for survivors to save themselves.
If they don't remove it, we can still have fun as long as no one is glitching anywhere. Glitches shouldn't exist, but they do. And if someone is exploiting them, then it's not a flashlight issue, but a bug that should be fixed. Behaviour always does their best to fix the bugs, I'm quite sure, but it's not easy. In other words, if a character has a bug you don't remove them, you just fix it. The same is valid for items.
It's also good to point out that, like a few people said here, using an item like it was designed to be is never abuse. I hate playing against a few specific killers, and I'm still here playing and trying to have fun.
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Flashlight give survivors a fun side quest they enjoy (saving team mates). It’s almost like you want all survivors to run toolboxes and hump the gens in 2 minutes.
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Without flashlights survivors take a mix of medkits and toolboxes, rip through the gens as fast as possible (literally no reason to do anything other than a gen, a chase, or on occasion a totem) and leave.
Are there fewer avenues to toxicity? Sure. Are the games more fun? Absolutely not.
Survivors throwing the game by wasting time doing something fun (flashlight saves) might suck in the moment, but in the grand scheme of the game they'd be better off taking a commodius and speedrunning the match. Removing flashlights gives plenty of survivors a free hand to bring one in.
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