Unhook protections should persist within terror radius
Comments
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My god, the amount of fallacies and offtopic nonsense in a single post 🤣
Yes, it's abusable not getting eliminated from a match when you have literally god mode and are able to do anything you would do without it, specially when a SWF could technically use this to win the game without letting the killer any chance. It is abusable being able to do protection hits infinitely. It is abusable in all ways imaginable and any person with a little brain power and time to think it for a couple of seconds would got to the same conclusion.
And your entitlement comes from your way of expressing it. "It is a right!!!"... em, no, you don't have any right to not being the first one eliminated from a match, and you don't have the right to have anything protecting you from it, including the current free BT.
And if you don't want to play a the game after matches where things like that happens, it's on you. But don't come complaining that the game should hold your hand even more.
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if hook can give survivor such buff.
why killer need to hook survivor?
why killer not take 4 down and look survivor die?
because survivor call that slug?
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The most effective way to stop tunnelling somewhat rather than changing base perks and things of that nature would be by not allowing the person who is on the hook to be hit by the killer until they are fully off the hook. This would definitely make a big difference, and if that's not enough then maybe even a 1-2 second immunity after unhooking.
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Yes, this is about playing effectively.
With the current state of gen efficiency, it is best to get one survivor out of the game quickly.
You want all killers to suffer with this truly awful suggestion of yours?
Well how about getting rid of being able to play Killer in the Game?
We could all just play against an AI Killer Bot.
I am sure you would be delighted.
P.S. Dear or dear. There are even worse suggestions in this thread.
Poor survivors. How dare a Killer can even attack them, they should be helping with the gens instead.
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The counter to to tunneling is improving your looping skills an team mates helped
since i have improved i don't get tunneled
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Even the basekit BT is abused for protection hits or free flashlight positioning after trading hook. The only way to avoid abuse if they buff anti-tunneling would be to make the unhooked character like a ghost during the protection time. No body collision or hit box, no item use. Hell, make them invisible so the killer doesn't even know where they ran off to. Even that would be better than people using the endurance to body block and then complaining of getting 'tunneled' when they get downed a few seconds later.
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I don't need to upload video of something that has been talked about and proven to be a hated playstyle in the game for years by many players. I know its a problem in this game. Everyone I played this game with quit and tunneling was the biggest reason why, among other things. The system isn't working enough. Its a small response to a very big problem. You can call protections a "hand holding mechanic" all you want, but tunneling in itself is basically a high reward and small risk thing too since the survivor is at a disadvantage. People who defend tunneling never look at it from that perspective. They never acknowledge how easy it is for them to do it. You simply argue from what you gain from doing it rather than the thought of it being bad for the game overall. Survivors need a way to fully escape a tunneling situation. Being able to run a few seconds with protections with nothing but windows and vaults offers little to nothing to escape the situation especially when you're leaving a big red trail of scratch marks that shows the killer exactly where you are going.
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At that point you may as well get rid of hooks entirely, give survivors a pool of 12 lives that the killer has to down through and the last 4 eliminate the survivors.
Personally that sounds incredibly boring and takes away a good part of the interactions of the game (member how that system worked in last year the nightmare) , but I genuinely dont think you will be happy till thats the case.
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The tunneling problem will be solved after all lowtier killers are buffed to a lvl where they can catch survs as fast as a wesker or spirit. Or a gentime rework.We all know killers need to tunnel against good players because they got no time. So if a myers could end chases before 60 seconds then he could go after any healthy unhooked survs cuz he knows if he couldnt catch them thats not the end of the world,he could do like two more chases on two different ppl.
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One also has to keep in mind that hooking is optional. Going for hooks grants a lot of bp and grade progress for everyone involved, but if someone only wants kills, downed survivors die in 4 minutes. There are also really neat perks and even killers that facilitate such a playstyle. The more base mechanics discourage hooking, the more players will default to slugging. I'm sure we'll see a noticeable uptick of this strategy following even just the current anti-facecamp changes.
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I talk from the perspective of all the times I have being accused of "tunneling" when I had found a survivor way after he was unhooked again, or because he spent his free protection in trying to save someone else. From the perspective of survivors leaving me the last closest 3 gens the map can generate and then complain that I was 3 genning when I wasn't the one that decided to leave that gens for last. The perspective of people saying I'm a camper because at the EGC, when I don't have any reason to leave the hook, I stay beside it to get a last kill.
And specially, from the perspective that in all the time I had play survivor I had not suffer any of those things to the extend of it being "bad for the game overall" or even my experience. I had games like that of course, including slugging me for no more reason than trying to get me mad, but not as often as many survivor mains cry in this forum it happens.
With this said, again, you are simply wrong. It is not easy to tunnel right now, unless the survivor make it easy for the killer to tunnel him on unhook, either by trying to use the Endurance to do a protection hit or not choosing well his path and not gaining enough distance from the killer. That is a fact. The current system do it's job without making you invincible or compensate for you not knowing what you have to do and messing up, how it must be.
So, again, if you really suffer so much hard tunneling in all your games, upload multiple recordings (something that is not going to be hard for you, as from the way you talk it seems you get tunneled every single game) to see how and why you get tunneled so much. Because no, it hasn't being proof that you suffer that much tunneling, and it can be a hated playstyle and all what you want, but that people hate it doesn't mean it happens so often as you and other claims.
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The problem is specifically tunneling off hook not general tunneling in the game. The fact you are making an exception with Bubba's power but no one else is frustrating. Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster for example shouldn't be able to hold their weapons up and wait for the unhook. They should incur a 3 to 5 second penalty of being slowed down and unable to attack if they try it so survivors have a better chance of escaping. Also Dredge shouldn't be able to stay in a close by locker aswell as Xenomorph in a near by tunnel. You need to do something to try and deter stuff like this from happening in the first place or why bother with implementing it if it promotes camping still?
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you have those people in both groups. It's just salty looser. It doesn't matter if you play killer or survivor. Happened upon those too.
I also happened on killers that claim my group was genrushing, when there was no perk in game that speeds up gen repair progress and the only toolbox in game was my alexis that was used purely to sabo. Or that other killer that talks about how meta slaves we are when literally my most used perk had 6% usage rate.
Just ignore those. There's nothing else to be done. Weird people are everywhere
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Here's alternative ideas to solve tunneling and camping entirely differently, since survivors can also abused the BT basekit to be tunneling just to last longer in chase. Why not simply male Survivors havr no hit collision what so ever, which in turn makes it impossible for a killer to hit them or even be bodyblock by survivors as well. Typically, when I play killer and I am trying to go after thr rescuer when happen to be near the hook when they unhooking happens; most often then not, Survivors that just got off the hook intenationally stand in my way, especially bodyblocking the window and doorway just so the rescuer, especially injured can simply run away and get distance. And it not hard to wait out the 16 seconds timer all the time, if those Survivor intently bodyblock and get in my way to doing regular chases with other Survivors and also go screaming in my Playstation messages to stop tunneling them afterwards when they die.
I am sick of people always complaining about tunneling and sometimes camping, when it technically the most efficient way to win (yet boring too). You can simple just create a new system in which Survivors when being unhook are immune to hits as well as lose their ability to bodyblock the killer, until they do a generator or start being fully heal or when exit gates are powered (or simply any conspicuous actions); and now camping and tunnelling is fixed.
Also, if you took my suggestion in making that happen, how about some decent killers buffs that improve the chase and map pressure, like basekit gen regression/slowdown perks to help most average killer rooster that are not fast and Lethal enough to keep up with the likes of Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Spirit, etc. Genrushing needs to be nerf somehow, or better yet; add a reward incentive for going for hooks in exchange for slowdown the pace of the game for a killer to go for hooks more then the kills. It can be as simple as giving killer the ability to take back a gen or two the loss after reaching a certain amount of hooks, gives Survivors more main objectives to do besides fixing Generators; or better... create a new fun mechanic in which Survivors can literally kill the killer if they do a very difficult and engaging challenge to gather the "weapons" they need to fight back. Something to make Generators speeds slow down significantly, and make killers focused more on the chase and hooking.
Long rant, but I am suggesting a better solution to camping/hooking; since players can exploit new changes. Also, Rework Skull Merchant again; the new changes are not fantastic, and will not make her chase better. If I can add one new Rework element to the Skull Merchant gameplay; make drones like Nemesis Zombies and be automatically patrolling the map in a patrol pattern and detect Survivors and followed them for a good duration. Inspired by the misleading official trailer in which one of the drones finds a Survivors and followed them, yet in game they are stationary and will not moved anywhere beside going up and down!
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First of all the terrible new anti camping does the opposite. It punishes killers who don't camp. The meter starts upon hooking not even letting the player leave, kick a gen, break a pallet or rearm at a locker without effecting the timer. Even worse if your on a two floor map you are punished even when you are zero threat to the hooked player. Terror radius based is a great way to ruin the game. Killers have perks to increase terror radius.....so punish them for no reason. Say goodbye to Doctor. Plus you don't seem to get that this mechanic said to all killers......tunnel time. Not only is it effective it is the logical response to such a poor update. Either that or taking a break from the game. One of the things that made DBD special was the variety of ways and choices that you could play a killer or a survivor. Most people I have spoken to who quit or play less is because the changes all seem to force a way of playing that takes away player agency and fun. Even the dailys and rifts force you to play a certain way. Any killer powers that effect gen runners are nerfed. Yet speed gen running causes players to tunnel or play in more toxic ways because otherwise the survivers will just speed run the gens. This is a dev created issue and attempts to fix them appear to be done without taking note of the consequences. No killer wants to play when they face infinite loops and speed runs. So it forces a style of play. Take Skill merchant a weak niche killer not played much but with an ability to somewhat impact gen teams it was all she had. Solution ? Nerf an already poor killer. As many have said at this point DBD should just remove the character beyond garbage.
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I think we should be rethinking anti-tunnel mechanics. Instead of extending basekit endurance, what if an unhooked survivor moves at 8.0m/s for, say, 5 seconds? This is enough to cover 40 meters of distance, which would naturally discourage the killer from going after that survivor since it guarantees they make it safely to a loop. Have it deactivate in endgame, obviously.
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And now that a 12-hook game is all but guaranteed, I wonder how you'd fix all the problems it would create.
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By fixing maps, among other things. Less "safe" loops, more 50-50 loops. Less useless filler pallets. Reworking generators so that to start a generator, survivors need to search chests for parts. Nurse rework and Blight add-on nerfs so the game can be balanced around a singular standard.
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Understandable.
Here one way to solve it, in my opinion:
The only way to solve it is to bring back DS to 5 seconds stun duration BUT with these added changes
-no longer activates when a killer pull a survivor out a locker.
-Decrease the duration of the perk to (insert seconds here). (was 60 seconds)
That way, it still be powerful and not be abusable by jumping into locker to activate the perk.
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Key word in what I said is "unreasonable." I rarely see survivors escape from a tunnel situation, so yes it is unreasonable to expect them to do well in a situation where their options are extremely limited.
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Survivors aren't really expected to evade the Killer. That's why Killers are faster by default and gain bloodlust as the chase goes on. When Survivors loop the Killer, their goal isn't necessarily to evade the Killer as much as it is to waste as much of the Killer's time as possible while their teammates work on gens. They know they're going to go down eventually, regardless of what they do.
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Exactly this. Survivors leave scratch marks, make noise when injured, leave blood trails and make location notifications when fast vaulting so everything plays in favor of the killer for being able to find them. It is the rare occasion that a survivor is able to drop chase with a killer that is focused on tunneling them off the hook. This is why I've argued that the game mechanics involving survivor and killer interactions need to change. Everything revolves around looping, which is very difficult. The game difficulty goes up way too high for tunneled survivors. Being chased in general heavily relies on pallets to last more than a few seconds in a chase. Dodging an attack feels impossible most of the time. I'm able to do it successfully about once every 30 or so times I try it. So many killer mains are used to everything survivors do against them that it hardly feels worth even trying anything other than running as long as you can.
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My suggestions benefit survivors in situations where they need the benefit. They also always come from a place where I believe there is no proper balance. Nothing breaks the mood faster for survivors in DBD than being tunneled. What I would prefer even more than the changes I suggest is an overall change in the game itself. The game is too dependent on perks for a situation that is only revealed after the match has started. We don't need more perks. We need DBD 2.
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If you loop a killer for a long time and the killer don't drop the chase, yes, he is going to get you eventually but it is his loss, as every second he spent chasing you is 1 charge being fed to up to 3 generators.
Also, survivors are supposed to be stronger at the start, and as the match advances and more resources are consumed being weaker to compensate the fact that you are 4 vs 1, and they leave marks and make loud noises because it would be almost impossible to find anyone otherwise thanks to the first person view the killer has (how many times survivors have being just beside a killer and he didn't see him?). You don't even understand why the game is designed that way, but here you are trying to argue about it to have a point to defend your claim.
And by the way, it was survivors the ones that made this game about looping. It was about stealth and hiding in the beginning, but people realized they can run faster than killers around walls thanks to having an smaller collision box and they transformed the game in a Benny Hill sketch. BHVR only adapted the game to how people was playing it.
Post edited by Batusalen on4 -
Survivors can tunnel the generator at any time and in any way they like.
Tunnel with two people makes it even more difficult to prevent.
The survivors strongly object to losing the chase and being captured and hung on a hook, but tolerate the killer's life aka the generator onhooked from the survivors' tunnel.
If the survivor is suffering because of the killer's tunnel behavior, the killer should take it upon himself.
So, the opposite is also true.
What you get is an equal and fair gaming experience.
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It takes far longer to repair a generator than it does for the hook timer to run out.
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Don't forget that there are 4 survivors!
On average, two people are always free, and the killer cannot protect generator from sirvivors attack.
Generators are not allowed to escape and are under constant threat of attack.
Since the conditions are different from each other, it is difficult to compare them.
However, one thing we can say with certainty is that Survivors can extend their lives by chasing, but the opposite is true for Killers.
And during the chase, the killer's life is constantly being taken away from him.
The time elapsed by one chase is enough to repair one generator or bring several generators to the survivor's advantage.
Therefore, one is not better than the other; killers and survivors are on equal footing.
Therefore, tunnels have the same value and should be punished equally.
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If 2 survivors are free, you are playing it wrong. When 4 survivors are alive (and not counting very beginning of the game - where corrupt and lethal swing the way to "standard"), it should always be that 1 survivor is in chase, 1 survivor is on a hook, 1 survivor is going for unhook/healing and only 1 survivor is doing gens. If this is not true, that means your chases are bad/too long (and this is also the reason why if 1 survivor is tunneled out at 2+ full gens remaining, it's usually killer's win).
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I understanded already.
However, it should be taken into consideration that one is not always onhook, other is trying to rescue him, and the other is chasing.
Sometimes one person turns into a slug, one is onhook, one is chased, and the remaining one goes to the rescue.
One may be taking care of the chase while the other is healed and soon three are repair the generator.
If Anyone have been a survivor for a long time, you will realize that it is rare for only one person to work on a generator at any given time.
Especially as you become more advanced, one person is always touching the generator, so having one or more people involved will improve its efficiency.
Of course, there are times when this is not the case, such as when moving or hiding, but the killer also has time to lose, so that cancels out the time.
For this reason, many intermediate and advanced players make fun of the fact that a killer with few special abilities can win only because of a big mistake on the part of the survivor.
(At least in Japan) This is something to recognize in both survivors and killers.
If we define a killer victory as resulting from 3 or more kills.
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??? What?
I talked about basic stuff. I wasn't talking how they got into that state. Basically only about timing. Chases for killer should not be too long (with length being defined by time it takes to unhook and reset and get to gen again), or he is loosing. Otherwise he's winning.
It's very simple rule that generally works, but has quite a few exceptions (does not work for kill-addon meyers, or oni, or most likely on plague, or on setup killers like trapper, or....). Also as the game progresses chases will be easier, so getting to (and beyond) that point is also easier. It really does not say much more.
And the point why I mentioned it was, that @xltechno mentioned 2 survivors are at all times free to do gens - which is incorrect - because if that's the case, survivors are actually winning (no matter how they got into such state and ignoring any snowball killer can get at basically any point of game should survivors make a single big mistake)
Sure it's not always the case. But it should be the case on average (less so at beginning and more so as game progresses) if killer wants to win.
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Of course, if the killer wins due to the difference in ability, then you're right.
I have explained the development of the average 2 Sacrifice.
So the reason the Killer is winning when it's not is because the Survivor is slowing down the generator by touching useless totems or touching them when it's not the right time to heal.
This is because two people are required to try if the rescue can be done by one person or if the survivor makes a mistake.
Killer sighs at this.
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Return to topic.
In order to overcome these two sacrifices, there are certain actions that survivors regularly perform.
That is, tunnels and camps against generators.
Survivors will not quit repairing a generator when it is one-third of the way through and move on to another generator.
Unless it is difficult to do so, they will always hang onto the generator until they complete the repair.
This may not always be the case, but it's a general theory, and I'll definitely do it if necessary.
The match is advantageous when the survivors tunnel, and they can always sacrifice the generator even if they are not free like before.
This is not a condemnation and shows that the survivor is smart and capable.
The same goes for killers.
Although there are times when you shouldn't do this, tunnel during certain parts of the match is very effective and a smart move.
This is what I really wanted to say.
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진짜 씨발 북미 생징징새끼 대갈통을 깨버리고 싶네
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so yet another safety net for survivors....as if they dont already have enough
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