I don't think EMPs should exist at all
Edit: okay, after conversation in the comments i don't think so
(I know it's a hot take, but i don't even think Hux will be op without this form of "counterplay". He is not bad killer in chase, but he has enough counterplays on his own to have a thing that denies his power completely. Pretty sure he would be just a strong A tier killer without EMPs.)
But still think this:
While I understand that this is too much for unexperienced players, and will never happen, I believe that EMP needs another very strong nerf. They are still unbelievably free and take nothing in return of denying killer's power completely. Recently i had a match where took 6 (SIX) EMPs and didn't waste a single second to print them.
So at least EMPs shouldn't be printed automatically. Make manual printing ~25-30 seconds with this change, maybe bring back 5 boxes and call it a day.
At VERY least, EMPs don't start printing automatically when previous EMP from this box is not used.
At VERY VERY least, EMP should only disable cameras. (Not my favourite variant and not sure it won't be stronger than previous one)
Make Hux great again now.
Comments
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What's with these increasingly bad posts that demand wild overbuffs to singu. Try reaching the skill floor of the killer before demanding bad ideas
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I feel like he needs a bit of reworking. He's like a more technically demanding version of Hag. I'd rather he got changes to make him more unique to her.
Random Idea:
In addition to being able to teleport to survivors that are gooped, make his goop stack up and expose the survivor after a certain number of hits. Slow down EMP production and make his gen defense weaker (I have no clue how, I only spent five minutes on this idea).
That would make him more about FPS/Teleports and less like Hag.
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Oh, yeah, i just forget that survivors that remove slipstreams 2-4 per chase and make chases longer than with m1 killer is my skill issue. True, mate, i will get better at asking survivors not use it at least once in a minute.
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God bless. Larry is insanely oppressive once you're tagged with power and he knows what he's doing. Removing EMPs is turning him into 115 Nurse.
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Maybe you should address that fact that your chases are lasting long enough to get emped 2-4 per chase
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EMPs are a little too much, but Hux being able to set up biopods at key spots and leave them totally invulnerable, or have survs totally unable to remove them is simply a non-starter.
I can see a solution where EMPs take longer to print, biopods can only be removed from a surv after 45-60 seconds from their application (like a mark or other exposure), but you simply can't remove them altogether. That's crazy talk.
Or maybe have them take longer to charge, and unable to be charged while moving.
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In what world he is insanely oppressive? He is not bad at all, but insanely oppressive? Predrop a pallet, make distance, lose los, take another circle in loop when he tp on you. He maybe slightly more oppressive than Bubba, is it insane level?
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Using an EMP in chase slows survivors down by 10%, which shouldn't make chases take longer.
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Imo the only change he needs is that survivors have to choose if they want to remove biopods from the selfs or cameras.
i think this would help him so much and would also fix the problem that survivors hold emps near a gen with biopod until they get infected so they completly und everything instantly
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Want some secret? Survivors could help each other to remove slipstreams and it's not even rare. Slipstreams could be removed twice in 30 seconds chase. I'm sure your chases are even shorter than that, it's just my skill issue, once again.
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What distance do you make when he can teleport to within 5 seconds of you anywhere he has LOS on you? This reads like a very bad case of skill issue. I understand Larry is pretty hard to play, but come on now.
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He breaks a pallet in overclock mode, you gain distance AND lose los. He tp to you, repeat again.
Yeah, i see, this forum more about skill issueing each other than the real conversation. As you wish.
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Do you guys really see Singu as A tier killer that doesn't need any improves? Just wondering
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You wildly underestimate how fast overcloak lets you do actions, most windows are free hits if you take them. Predropping is a free hit if i just zone you unless that tile connects into another tile, you're also using all the resources on the map extremely quickly against a killer that you can't make distance against unless if the map is really awful for singu like lerys. And good luck trying to escape LOS from me when my los can be projected basically anywhere midchase with smart pod placement.
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Are you a controller player? I honestly can't understand how poorly you view singu unless you're a roller player. Which in that case yea singu is gonna be real rough for you, but for MnK players singu is very powerful.
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i have to disagree. fingering the boxes might need to get some nerfs or a complete removal so with only naturally printed emps tagging people would be more meaningful, but without emps facing this killer would be hell.
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Nah, i'm on PC.
Once again: i don't think Singu is bad, in my tierlist he is high B. I don't think i'm bad at Singu. I watch OPWillie and know his skill ceiling (which i'm not). I just said EMPs are still extremely free and u made drama from it with skill issue etc.
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And how many pallets do you suppose a map has, especially when you're predropping them against a killer that basically instabreaks them?
No, I think he's in a great spot. The only improvements I think he needs are QoL, like defaulting to a freshly placed biopod instead of the one in the opposite corner of the map when quickly switching to a biopod midchase, and basekit yellow addon that makes sounds come through the biopod. Otherwise, he's in a great spot. I enjoy playing him quite a lot.
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Maybe, i'm not sure on 100%. Even if my every wish about this game came true instantly, it would still require testing.
But let's be honest, he will be like every strong A tier killer. Maybe even S. Fast chases / fast resources. Strong map control. Loopable? Absolutely yes. Idk in what part it is INSANELY op.
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I think they need some kind of change but removing them completely would make him extremely oppressive with very little counterplay.
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So Bubba and Blight are insanely OP as well? Because I don't remember people calling them too strong because of their ability to get rid of pallets quickly. Buba doesn't even allow survivor to really gain distance after pallet break and has opportunity to oneshot survivor after, but somehow he is still not op.
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I disagree. Not many survs in my games use EMPs because its not the most time efficiant thing to grab. Sometimes its better to deal with overclock and teleport via envirorment, timing, perks, etc. It seems like your at a dusadvantage as survivor but once you plan your mioves against overclock, you wont need an EMP
Also is it just me or do every Sungularity player forgets that he can replace broken Biopods in an INSTANT just by shooting them with another? Why nerf EMPs when you can ignore the affects just by replacing them (even while mid chase)
Singularity is best when utilizing your envirorment, not just chase alone.
Plus, you can use Biopods to waste survivors time forcing them to grab and waste an EMP. You dont always need to teleport to win. I mean, alot of killers dont have teleport abilites and still win games so what stops Singularity from doin so as well?
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i'm gonna respond to this instead, i instantly thought of scenarios where 1 or 2 gens left. imagine not having emps there. there would be no 3 gen for him anymore, any and every gen would be a 3 gen.
for looping, survivors don't really get much help from emps anymore, the slow while using it did its job really well so emps can't be used mid chase that easily anymore. making emps even more scarce (by nerfing the box interaction) so people can't dedicate their time only to screw over his chases and annoy him would be more meaningful to solve the issue, in my opinion.
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Yeah, true, i didn't even think about 3 gen with him, you are right.
And don't agree about using it while looping. I'm good with it. Usually use it after pallet drop or when lose los around the corner. And when i'm playing with friends or even good randoms, they help me with their emps really often. As survivor i see same picture: emps are too free and too effective.
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Bubba also has no way of closing a gap quickly with a survivor, and has to play around windows. His power also doesn't give him the ability to ignore pallets entirely while in a certain mode, nor does it have built-in info.
Larry has all of the above. His power can let him close the gap from very far, assuming the survivor is slipstreamed and he has LOS, he has a period of time after his teleports where he breaks pallets faster, vaults faster, and can simply run through pallets unbothered, he has cross-map information with his biopods, AND can teleport through them if a survivor is brazen and doesn't EMP it. Not to mention, his kit also includes basekit slowdown through EMP recycling, where survivors have to keep running back to grab one.
And yes, Blight is very often considered top 2 killer in the game. But it's mostly due to his mobility and ability to outplay pallets and loops, and little to do with being able to chew through pallets. If you meant Billy, then Billy is hampered by a whole other host of reasons, which I won't get into here because they're not relevant to the discussion at hand.
What I'm saying is Hux is fine.
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I say this as someone who plays Singularity every day: if you get EMP'd even once in chase, that makes Singularity worse than half the killers on the roster. I love him, but it is what it is. It's a power that takes multiple steps to set up and doesn't even guarantee a hit against a good player.
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Singu is absolutely not "worse than half the roster" when you get emped. If emps are so impactful against you while you're playing singu that you think they make him a m1 killer, you are playing Singularity wrong(or are a roller player). Slipstream is very easy to apply and even easier to reapply if the survivor you're chasing is the one who emps.
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If you have to take 5 seconds to reapply it, that's still worse than other killers. I haven't even said it's difficult to apply. I can bypass windows or play around pallets with, again, half the other killers on the roster. And they don't get EMP'd.
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Could you imagine that lol
Cameras that can't be removed with the chase potential of Nurse? Oh yeah move over SM, there's a new 3-gen king.
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I agree with your line of thinking with opinion on EMP being unnecessary counter-play to the killer. most player will not know what your talking about with bubba but I understand your point of view with singularity and bubba. he is like bubba with emp weaknesses and no instant down.
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Singularity has multiple issues. 1: very map dependant. 2. Very high skill floor easily bypassed by how free emps are. 3. Multiple issues with collision regarding bipod stalking and teleporting. 4. Power is counterplayed before it has an impact on game.
Maybe a controversial idea, but I think Biopods should have passive fields like Skull Merchants old drones. Within this field a survivor should develop a slipstream; with the time required based on proximity to the biopod, let's say 15-45 seconds depending on whether you're faceplanting a biopod or edging the field.
Now this solves a few issues, as with passive slipstream map dependency and a need for stalk angles are vastly reduced. It helps newer Singularity players understand the power without overbuffing players that took the time to learn power (as stalking manually is always faster than a passive slipstream.)
This also creates more engaging gameplay for survivors, as you would now want to emp a biopod before earning a passive slipstream instead of waiting to be shot or risk getting instant teleportation if stalked.
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Singularity has no problem with EMPs and is not map dependent at all if you know how to use the pods correctly and many survivors have no idea how to deal with it or what he can do
No killer, not even Nurse, can reach a survivor on the other side of the map so quickly, many survivors have no idea that in Overclock mode you have a mini spirit fury and its vault speed is increased.
The problems he has are mechanical like Pods that do not attach despite the surface being valid for example or when checking a Pod it selects a different one
The only non-essential changes I would make are to reduce the time the Pods remain disabled from 45 to 30 seconds, remove the autoprint (because it's stupid) and that's it,he i's a really good killer, difficult to play and he requires a lot of technique, improvisation and knowing how it works
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Without EMPs you could just stick a pod on a survivor forever until they are hooked and that pod would spread to other survivors.
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Regardless of how you look at it, Singularity is not in a good spot. Removing EMPs would go too far but I can't defend a killer, that has skill floor higher than Nurse and only gets mediocre to somewhat good results once you reach it.
To get a feeling for Nurse you only need to invest maybe 1-2 hours and you even have a brown addon to help you out. Singularity on the other hand needs you constantly harass people with the Biopods, so that waste their EMPs and can't use them in chase. That takes much more effort than connecting to dots.
On Nightlight, Singularity's kill rate has always been around 45% before Alien was released. Now it's closer to 50% (probably because the more casual players switched to Alien) but still pretty bad. Nightlight is a not perfectly reliable source but when a kill rate is this low for so long, then something is off. I believe it's that many players have no idea what to do with this killer. Compare that to Nurse or any other high skill floor killer. You always know what went wrong and what you could do, if you played better. With Singularity you only see that it went wrong. But you don't know why and you have to figure out how to play it right all by yourself. There is little feedback in that regard.
Post edited by Xernoton on0 -
Singularity does not need any buff, he is just fine.
I'd nerf EMPs a bit. Last 10 seconds will be printed by survivor. That would give him some slowdown and that's all.
He is in fine spot, bad players should not be rewarded anyway. Nurse also has always lowest kill-rate. Should we buff her too?
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I was already afraid that I was really the only one who thought so.
My problem with him is not skill floor and skill ceiling, Blight has it too, but it's only about your skill and experience on him. It's okay be hard killer to master, but with Singu your skill doesn't matter here. I mean, you could be amazing Singu, best in the world, but how it stops people from denying your power several times per chase? Yes, sometimes he could renew slipstreams quickly, but it still requires so much work, which doesn't even guarantee you a hit.
I already said in the post that I overreacted with completely removing EMPs, but i still think this amount of works shouldn't be denied THAT easy.
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Didn't you do the post where said that Singu is worse than Trapper? What changed your mind?
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I played him more and now he is one of the my fav killers.
He is definetly not weak, i just underestimated him. I want some QoL changes for him but your suggestion would break him so badly. We don't need another Nurse
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Without EMPs he would be heavy oppressive and you could put him in S tier probably after Blight or Nurse.
EMPs keep him in check but I wouldn't mind if they nerf them again or give Singularity some QoL buffs.
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EMPs do exactly ######### all if you play Singularity aggressively and use the power in chase, like you are meant to.
Stop playing Singularity like a pure area control killer and start playing him like the aggressive chaser he is designed to be, you can replace a disabled camera in less then a second and make the EMP completely pointless
You are going to be punished hard by EMPs if you use the power incorrectly, so stop using the power incorrectly and you'll do far, FAR better with Singularity
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
According to Nightlight, Nurse's kill rate really isn't so bad. And even if we don't consider Nightlight and go by official stats, Nurse was quite alright in high MMR. Apart from that, I could play a game of Nurse and I guarantee you, I'd perform pretty well. I'm not super good with her but slap on the brown addon and I get my downs.
Singularity on the other hand? I have put a good amount of hours into figuring out how to play this killer and won exactly 3 games. 2 of which had a disconnect (no bots). And that was around the time they buffed him, so survivors didn't know how to play around him in loops just yet. I could not figure out what to do at all. By now I know what do to do thanks to some streamers. Singularity becomes more of a threat, when you can constantly harass survivors and get the EMPs out of the way before the chase even starts.
But that is insanely difficult. This is the killer's skill floor and if you can't reach it, then you're gonna have a rough time. Nurse on the other hand is as simple as connect 2 dots (in theory). Invest a bit of time, build up the muscle memory and you are good to go against most survivors. A killer with a high skill floor is not necessarily a bad thing. But in Singularity's case you're either good or you suck. There is no in-between. And that is a problem. With other killers, you feel yourself constantly getting better. That is not the case with Singularity because what you do either works or it doesn't. There is no situation where you just barely miss or know immediately how to correct it next time. Basically, Singularity's learning curve is discontinuous.
Blight has very, very, very low skill floor. Seriously, it's not hard to use the power for mobility and free hits and play M1 killer in loops. His skill ceiling is incredibly high but it's not hard to use his power in a way, that benefits him.
Singularity, will slow himself down, if he can't use his power effectively. And as I explained above, that is pretty hard. I like hard killers (I main Hillbilly) but a killer with such a high skill floor, that is so weak when you don't reach it and only ok, once you do reach it is not great. A really good Singularity player will be able to get the EMPs out of the way before they begin a chase. So they slow down the survivors and ambush them with their power once they have the opportunity. But that requires a lot of work.
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i feel like singularity's skill floor is being exaggerated a bit too much.
like sure the killer takes skill but personally after watching streamers play him for a bit i got a really good idea on how to play him and it's really not that hard it just requires really fast inputs.
u set up bods in key areas and when chasing a Survivor you use them to infect them or you can just ignore setting up and directly use them in chase which is fairly easy.
i guess if we're talking about someone who played him blindly without watching gameplay he would be very difficult to figure out?
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What you described doesn't work against any group of survivors, that don't ignore the EMPs. Doing everything in chase (multiple times) takes too long and slows you down more than anything. And even if you do end up getting to slipstream teleport in a timely manner, you still have pretty much nothing. With only 1 survivor slipstreamed you will be easy to outrun.
This might work against very... Let's call them inexperienced survivors. But not against survivors that know this killer's weaknesses.
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