We're going on 5 months that MFT is still unchanged

You didn't know that dbd law states that all killers must have nothing but winning matches simply because they showed up? My guy get with the times

But i was not only talking about the leadup that changes to the lunge, i was talking on the distance when you make the lunge.

Let me qoute myself:

Because as killer you learned the distances. At what distance you can hit, at what distance you can Lunge attack. With MFT all what you learned is wrong. You will miss it.

The time you need to keep up changes ofc too. How i said some plays for example advanced plays with doctor are not possible anymore since they dont work if the survivor walks 3% faster anymore. And with 4,4 killers the "loop advantage" is even higher. Since survivors can walk loops tighter you see a difference especally in small loops. But how i said, my main problem is that this leared point when to hit changed.

As far as Coup is concerned, what part of it is what you dislike? 

I dislike that the survivor doesnt know if you have it or not and it changed what you learnd before. So "I will make the window" is starting to getting wrong and you should have tried to reach the next corner instead. And its not that you did something wrong, the killer just used a perk (that you dindt knew he had, and that you coulndt see before).

I dislike the whole idea of the perk.

then the Survivors can play around the Killer theoretically always having it. 

I disagree witht his, because for example Coup makes L-T walls unsafe, so if you play like "he allways has it" most of the structures are useless and you shoulndt go to them.

the additional flaw of MfT users too often becoming overconfident while injured, makes them not heal even when it would be beneficial

Alot of the survivors are playing the "no-healing" playstyle, since it can be benefital to just finish a gen instead of healing. Alot of SWF teams dont heal up anymore unless its needed. Because why heal up when the killer is on the other side?

There are serveral talents that boost your character while injured and MFT fits perfect in that kind of playstyle. We have alot of killers that can injure you easily but its way harder to down you (for example legion).

For some other killers, the "follow up" hit is often easier as the initial hit (for example wesker)

"injured builds" are also very good against killer who use the exposed status.

No-one said they're guaranteed, but they're clearly much more likely to do so in a scenario where they haven't stupidly dead-zoned themselves. And that's what you're working on: that Trickster is just going to catch people in the open to a consistent enough degree that MFT won't affect him, that there's going to be no line of sight blockers anywhere, they're going to be nowhere near a loop or that he's always going to get a down before a loop or LoS-blocker can be reached. You addressed very little of what I said and what you did address amounted to, "Trickster is fine if Survivors are consistently dumb and put themselves in the worst possible scenario."

No perk in the history of the game, regardless of how broken, would seem that bad if you always talked about it being used in its worst possible scenario. DH for distance was fine, for example. In an enclosed room, with things to bump into. If you couldn't catch a Survivor that bumps into things in an enclosed room, that's clearly a skill issue - perk is fine. And this is what you did: instead of focusing on the more likely scenarios where MFT comes into play, you focused on the most unlikely one where it does next to nothing.

It probably takes genius level insight to understand the reason, isn't it?

there are pallet loops in the game that can be pretty much impossible to mindgame against good survivors without bloodlust for killers with garbage or no antiloop. that's why bloodlust exists. most of the time bloodlust 1 activates for 2 seconds after finally catching up and then is reset when the killer breaks the pallet. if you think its fair that you should be able to 1v1 the killer for possibly the entire trial duration because they picked a D tier killer then i'm glad you're not on the already rotten balance team.

It's not really that theoretical, it's just how games go.

They're stealthy. Ghostface is Undetectable so unless it's super open, you can ambush super easily. That's not theoretical, that's just... how it is. Myers has a super small TR, especially with Dead Rabbit, so survivors have a very short timeframe to react to hearing the heartbeat. That's not theoretical, that's just how it is.

You do have to actually play well, you don't get to passively benefit from it with no input on your side, but those tools are just there. The only real detracting factor is that they're map dependant, if you get an open map it can be hard to leverage your stealth.

Injured Builds especially against exposed Killers - Yeah, for the longest time I was finding it difficult to win with Myers, but I had to think outside of the box. I finally started running Thana/Plaything/Penti/(Personal choice). It requires 2 injuring hits relatively early to make them realize you aren't a Tombstone Myers, and you just chase normally and stalk when they drop pallets. Once you get a hook, you fall into a perfect equilibrium when they want to heal to prevent Thana, want to cleanse Plaything to prevent a T3 stealthy instadown, and don't have enough time to cleanse Penti after that. It took a large playstyle shift from how I used to play Myers, but it works much better in the current evironment. I did have to lose 5-10 matches to learn that playstyle shift though, so don't think this build can be ran successfully overnight.

I both understand and don't understand this complaint. Nearly all perks adjust how the game functions. If I return to a hook, I estimate 16/20s is how long it would take to heal (mangled being the 2nd number), but with Resurgence or We'll Make It, that drops to 8/10s, and both down to 4/5s. Similarly with Enduring for how long a stun lasts. At certain filler loops (like the new farm reworks), you only get somewhere else if the Killer is stunned the full duration. Also in a similar realm with Spirit Fury destroying the pallet altogether. All of those game sense markers are adjusted by perks, so this is nothing new. Heck, Myers T2 essentially gets a basekit Bamboozle vault speed boost, and T3 gets a basekit Superior Anatomy vault speed boost.

MfT specifically gives .12m/s over the normal 4.0m/s, and the lunge lasts .8s, which means MfT saves .096m at the lunge to the vault specifically. That is ~.02s of movement at 4.6. That is like adding 20 ping to the vault point in favor of Surv. Coup as specifically the vault's mirror adds .4s at 6.9m/s, or 2.3m/s extra for that early lunge timeframe, for .92m at the lunge portion specifically. Also if the loop rotation is roughly less than 8s, Coup yields more distance than MfT. That specific timing is roughly how long it takes to use the efficient window vaults at shack as Survivor (from non pallet doorway to window back to non pallet doorway), so any loop shorter than Shack favors Killer, and any longer loop favors Survivor (in a Coup vs MfT fight). To be fair there is a limit of Coups, and if you hate both sides of this coin that is a valid opinion even if I don't share it, as at least you are logically consistent in your opinion.

-- Separate from above replies --

One thing I will say is it would probably be fine if MfT gave the 3% haste and applied .1s of exhaustion when you start running while not exhausted for the duration of the run. That way it doesn't stack with any other exhaustion perk. You need to run to use DH, so you can't stack both with this change. This also is short enough to reset the exhaustion on vaults, while still keeping you exhausted while running to prevent other stacking effects like Iron Will. This would probably be a pain to code, but would functionally fix most stacking complaints that I do find legitimate. (As a reminder to anyone who hasn't read my other posts, I also advocate the removal of Endurance from MfT onto a weak or thematic perk instead, maybe Solidarity?)

You forget that a lot of people don't have an IQ above room temperature (or maybe not IDK lol). They choose to poke at you instead of providing a compelling and engaging argument. I would simply ignore them as they are probably not worth your time and effort responding to them.

MFT nerf in exchange for Blight nerf. Deal?

5 months is a long time!

I am starting to think that the devs will keep meta perks for half a year before another major perk shake up. However, this is a theory that been building in my mind for quite a while, but that just me.

the next perk meta shake up will be in July 2024.

You watch! xD

They might as well just make every survivor 103% at this point, at least it will be consistent

It barely impacts some killers and completely guts others. Peak game design

The amount of free pressure it puts on the weaker killers is just wild, you have to work so much harder to win games because of it and it takes 0 effort on the survivors part to just equip an overpowered perk. Not that survivors getting carried by broken perks is anything new to DBD, mind you

That is a horrible way to look at things and only promotes more tribalism.

What i will Say goes For both Survs and Killers.

What if :

• everyone adapt ? it seems most of us (gamers) are lazy to try
• Use items at your disposal ? most killers have items that can negate +3% ( witch is the subject of the topic but can work on most issues)
• Stop following X streamers Ideas and make your own because they dont have your LVL gameplay and they got issues maybe you dont have.
• Never Balance a Perk around SWF because SoloQ will be left behind .
• and plz ... Why everyone complains everytime for everything we just could enjoy the game as it and let the devs do what they want at least to balance the game.

A player Who just want to have fun Playing Killer and SoloQ.

It depends on how strict we're being here- technically speaking, Trapper hard counters MFT, but it would be kind of misleading to put him on a list. He'd be more like the baseline; somewhat affected by MFT via regular M1 chasing, but not significantly enough that he's any less viable than he typically is.

So, for killers that definitely do not have to care about MFT at all: Nurse, Bubba, Clown, Spirit, Plague (in Corrupt Purge, anyway), Ghostface, Oni, Pyramid Head (insofar as his power is not affected, though to be fair he doesn't have speed or hindered), Blight, Twins (except for the Endurance which they care a lot about), Nemesis, Pinhead, Artist, Sadako, Wesker, kiiiinda Xenomorph? These killers will all notice MFT if a skilled player is using it, but have something in their power that allows them to mitigate it almost entirely in at least most scenarios.

For killers that contextually don't care about MFT, with the right builds or in the right circumstances: Wraith (with uncloak speed addons), Billy (unless he's cucked by a terrible map), Myers (most actually viable builds don't care about MFT, but tbf, not all and his basekit does care), Trickster (just sharpens his feast or famine nature, doesn't actually change it), Huntress (dependant on what LoS blockers are around). Self explanatory; these killers have tools but may not be running them in an MFT game, or only care depending on specifics of what map they're on and what part of that map they're chasing in.

Killers at neutral: Trapper, Freddy (his snares kinda help, but they're not consistent enough), Legion. These killers basically just have to M1 chase, which means MFT is definitely doing something but isn't actively harming their power.

Killers who are actually going to notice MFT, but are still viable: Hag (harder to M1 chase but traps themselves unaffected), Doctor (messes with Shock Therapy timing), Pig (I'd argue her power is more affected by slightly harder M1 chases than the killers in neutral and it's easier to evade her ambush), Demogorgon (easier to juke his Shred, I think. Haven't tested.), Deathslinger (easier to juke for sure), Dredge, Knight. These killers aren't unplayable, but they do have to try noticeably harder or lean harder on ambushing and mindgaming.

I'm exempting Singularity from this list as I'm not entirely sure about him, and Skull Merchant because her new iteration literally has not been played by anyone yet. I'm also focusing more on the 3% Haste element of MFT primarily, because including the Endurance would slightly change this list but pretty much everyone agrees that part should go. The Haste is the contentious part, imo.

So, our list of killers that are rendered unviable is 0, and our list of killers who'll notice but can still do well sits at 7. Significantly lower than 'over 20' even if we soften your claim to the more reasonable "is mildly countered by" or "will notice".