We're going on 5 months that MFT is still unchanged

Sure thing. As I mentioned, Plague has her Corrupt Purge, and I decided against putting her in "contextual" because that is guaranteed to happen and happen more than once. Like I said in the category description, those killers are going to notice a survivor has MFT, but they have tools to deal with it.

Ghostface has stealth and an instadown. If they heal to avoid the stealth, he Marks. If they stay injured to avoid the Mark, he ambushes them. It's not passive, you have to do well to leverage it, but it completely bypasses MFT.

Oni is pretty self explanatory. Staying injured for MFT gives him blood orbs, which in turn makes him deadly and fast enough that he doesn't care about 3% Haste.

Bubba only really notices MFT if they round a corner in time, which can happen but isn't guaranteed. Otherwise he speeds up and mows through them.

Then for the others- Wraith with uncloak addons can speed up and smack them fast enough to counter the speed boost (though he does lose distance without those addons), Myers has stealth builds, hyper chase builds, and Tombstone Piece, Nemesis doesn't care if you get to a loop faster because he shuts down both pallets and windows, Sadako is a stealth and macro killer so staying injured against her is a death sentence.

And yes, we are seriously including killers that realistically have the tools to counter MFT and aren't rendered any weaker than default M1 chasing outside of those tools. That is in fact the answer to the question you asked me, and I'll remind you that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you didn't literally mean killers becoming unviable against MFT.

I erred on the side of caution since I'm not that well versed in him, but I could see that being true for sure.

....why are you M1 chasing with Trapper?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're supposed to chase in a web and try to catch them in Traps.

So why are you blaming MFT for something that isn't it's fault?

You are already in the worst case scenario. If the Survivors did not have MFT, the outcome would not change.

MFT is doing nothing in your scenario though.

Literally nothing, talk about being dishonest. Is Trapper bad? Yes. Does MFT make him significantly worse? No. Is it somehow MFT's fault that Trapper is bad? No. If we nerf MFT does that make Trapper better? No.

Explain how I, and others, have very little issues with MFT?

Preface - assuming we remove MfT's endurance (which I think should be done), should we remove or adjust the 3%? I'd be fine with a hard swap MfT and Dark Theory (DT going to 3% and MfT going to 2%.

My stance was video comparisons/loop differentials to change my opinion on the 3% portion, and this is a perfect poor example for a couple of reasons.

First, there should be Killer and Survivor visuals. During the Hope section (5:45) the Killer enters and exits chase, so the Killer is intentionally (or unknowingly without enough skill to recognize) sabotaging the integrity of the chase/video. Even if it were a tall structure where you can't look over, the Killer can still hide redstain or mindgame in other ways*. But the main issue here is the Killer (friend) shown in the video is intentionally or unknowingly sabotaging the integrity of the video, so we don't know if in the original comparison (0:45) he was running the tiles wide without Killer perspective also. He could have just asked the friend to run both as Survivor also, so that way if the video maker ran 3/5 pallet rotations without and with MfT as Survivor, then when as Killer, he ran 2/3 or 5/9 rotations, they could know someone is running tiles looser or tighter. At the same time, if it were the same, then we could see the side-by-side, even if it weren't edited in that way (open another window and play the Survivor and Killer sections simultaneously).

Secondly, there should be more than 1 tile showcased. This is 1 filler pallet on 1 map. At the very least show LT walls (which to be fair, have different lengths on different realms), Longwall Jungle Gyms, Shortwall Jungle Gyms, and Shack. I don't feel like that is too much to ask for. Similarly if someone were to come up saying "Bamboozle is OP, Delete pls" it should show which tiles are shut down as a result.

*I tried to find a video example but I couldn't for the life of me, so enjoy a mediocre paint drawing of the generic pallet tile in its place. (Which could be compared as a tall wall version of the loop showcased at the timestamps listed above.)

I will say any Stealth Killer 'countered' by MfT is simply playing Stealth Killers wrong. Doc I will 100% agree with you however.

I love MfT because it means those foolish Survivors can't escape my Mark as Ghosty with Sprint Burst (or get instagibbed due to stealth while injured). I find similar reasons every time I play most Killers. "Thank goodness they didn't bring X perk" when I find out they have MfT, but mostly its SB.

First of all, no.

I almost exclusively play Killers who aren't high-tier. I have zero issue countering MFT because I do not 5head chase someone at an absurdly strong structure for 10 minutes. It seems these days the moment anything requires some strategy, people lose their minds.

Also, I believe I was one of the first people to point out that CoH completely destroyed any macro gameplay. Most people misunderstood why it was powerful. Not that it provided a boon to healing (no pun intended) but that it allowed you to Self-Heal.

Yeah that's the issue I'm starting to see.

Lots of Killers just have outdated powers and BHVR is clearly unable to keep up.

No, I don't run into stacked teams that often, but that's more of an issue with the matchmaking than being an excuse for an overpowered perk. Games were significantly more difficult at old rank 1 in my opinion. I can go entire days without losing on killer and the game will still feed me baby dwights with ~100 hours. It doesn't mean it's any less broken when you finally hit survivors with thousands of hours who know how to run every tile or lobbies with multiple P100s running full meta perks

The only justification for it is that the power creep for killers has also been very high as well. I think ultimate weapon is utterly busted too and having a perk that is basically "find every survivor for free map-wide unless they are running 1 perk out of 130+" is horrid game design and a sign that they are running out of ideas for perks

This is getting very frustrating, BHVR. Some of us like playing the underdogs such as ghostie, Myers, pig, and such. Playing the weaker killers is already frustrating with how much you have to keep track all while dealing with toxic survivors and bully squads. At least you could hold your own as a weak m1 killer, but now every freaking person is running around going faster when injured and making loops and windows when they wouldn't have prior. You have single handedly turned a challenging yet rewarding experience of playing the underdogs into a completely frustrating and unsatisfying ordeal. Bully squads and toxic survivors are having an absolute field day stomping on the weaker m1 killers. Enough is enough. This has been one of the most entertaining pvp games I've played in awhile, and MFT has made me just want to walk away.

The video is insufficient proof as I laid out, because the Killer is doing something wrong. The full details are unknown, but they didn't enter chase, even over the low wall easily possible in the Hope example, so they intentionally or accidentally falsified information. If I came out with a video saying 'We'll Make It is OP, you heal in 4s' you would reasonably be suspicious. If after the fact, and I never mentioned it, that you found out the Survivor unhooked had Resurgence as well, then the validity of my claim would come into question, either because I told my friend to bring the perk (intentionally falsified), or they just like the perk and didn't realize they didn't swap builds before loading in (accidentally falsified).

Stealth and Instadown are separate, but sometimes overlap (like Ghosty). For this I am only considering unmarked Ghosty, or Pig. A key aspect to stealth is approaching from odd angles, or paths that you normally don't look at while working a gen. People, on average, look towards the center of the map, as it is the most likely approach vector. Successful stealth requires taking extra time to approach from the outside of the map (in general). The shorter chase/hit time is typically net positive compared to the response time to run away if approaching from the center. You only need 1 player to be unaware to be successful, as you can force hook trades in the worst of cases. Even if only half of players were unaware, you get to roll the dice 4 times, so that means if it was only as low as 50% (and I would say it is closer to the 75-90% range from extensive Ghosty gameplay), you would only have 6.25% of matches that are 'unwinnable' in terms of stealth alone. Bad maps are a roll of the dice as well, and you have to take the good with the bad.

Perks/add-ons to counter MfT aren't only countering MfT, unlike Calm Spirit being essentially only to counter Ultimate Weapon. Survivors can utilize the Exhaustion mechanic, so often they bring 1 or more Exhaustion perks. Bringing an anti-Exhaustion perk is typically countering or limiting 4 Survivor perks at once, if not more. The odds of multi-exhaustion is low though, just as the odds of no exhaustion are, so we'll average it out to 1 per Surv. 1 perk per Surv being countered by 1 perk for Killer is the perfect counter level, and if you can get it on an add-on, sometimes that's even better.

No Killer is required to bring an anti-Exhaustion perk in general. Perks are best used to accentuate strengths, or shore up weaknesses. This can be a Killer strength/weakness or a personal player strength/weakness. I typically don't have issues with MfT (or any Exhaustion perk for that matter), so I don't bring anti-Exhaustion perks. I do bring intel perks to build on my strengths, both of Killer, and personal playstyle. I get tilted if I run into god windows, so Bamboozle is a comfort pick for me. It mitigates the strength of those god windows, but more importantly, it shores up a personal weakness of getting annoyed and misplaying as a result. Do I recommend Bamboozle on every build for every player? No, most certainly not, but I am 'addicted' to using it to prevent those worst of experiences.

Most Killers should be able to get a hit with power, then at the longest down them with Bloodlust 2. I don't recommend Bloodlusting every circumstance, but I do recommend attempting mindgames at pallets instead of instakicking them. The player will improve and understand what mindgames will work and what won't, and will eventually get them down.

We are going 5 years and Blight and Nurse are still broken.

Those pesky survivor sided devs man, the nerve!

Try to think of something else.

Calling me a Survivor main is like calling Blight mid.

Bruh, killer is supposed to get kills, kinda hard to do if you're a baby trapper who got paired with a top 500 player because matchmaking, bloodlust helps the baby trapper actually stay interested in the game

Yes, it's why when you break past that mentality, you really start to improve.

Both in-game and in life.

Your literal first comment is about me never playing Killer lol.

"You never play killer"

The next things you say are calling me bad lmao

"You play against trash survivors"

"Your game sense is so lackluster that you think survivors being able to do 10+ loops around a filler and be able to greed against a BL2 killer is entirely normal"

I think I've got 14K Kills and 1.1K escapes with 5500 hours on my main with maybe 500 elsewhere. I've played against several comp teams with tournament wins and I've participated in Tofu's scrims + the Community Cups. 

Let's dispell all your arguments above. I almost exclusively play Killer, have a lot of time in it and I'm at least above average.

To be fair here, you don't need Tombstone Piece specifically to counter MFT as Myers. Pretty much any of Myers' actually viable builds, as I mentioned lightly earlier, are going to counter MFT to one degree or another- Vanity Mirror builds counter it via stealth, hyper-chase builds counter it via longer lunges, faster vaulting, and generally powering through loops, Tombstone Piece counters it via being the most busted single addon in the game, and so on. Myers might struggle with a more generic "hair bow and stalk speed" build, but almost anything else that'll work against any decent survivors will work against MFT.

When it comes to stealth, it's not a case of assuming the killer is a 10k comp player, it's a case of assuming the killer is like, trying? That they have some basic skills to leverage the strengths of the killer they're playing. Taking off angles to fool line of sight, exercising strong map awareness accentuated by info perks, knowing how to mindgame at certain tiles, that kind of thing. Sure, this is hard on a handful of maps, but those are typically outlier scenarios where a stealth killer would struggle anyway, regardless of MFT.

You don't actually have to dedicate a build to counter one perk. For one thing, anything you'd bring to counter MFT works against other strong survivor picks (EG, if you play a killer that can effectively utilise Blood Echo, that Exhaustion debuff counters all Exhaustion perks, as well as MFT. Iron Will too, for that matter.), but for another only a handful of killers would even need to consider that because almost every killer in the game has some basekit method of catching survivors who have a little distance on them.