We're going on 5 months that MFT is still unchanged

Stepping in here to post a quick reminder to please keep the discussion civil, and on the topic of the thread. Thank you.

In my games gen speed is still the problem not MFT, take 4 good loopers/gen efficient players without MFT and you will still lose easily more often than not

honestly they will nerf MFT very soon and problem will remain with another meta, people should ask for resilience and toolbox nerfs, you overestimate mft, that nerf will only help slightly

I don't think so, no.

You'd need to do all those things as Trapper against a good team regardless of MFT's precense in a match.

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I asked it because there are several players that think that mft is fine.

Old Ruin was unhealthy though.

I was using SC and PGTW as examples of perks that were nerfed simply for being meta and therefore having high usage rates.

I don't care about it one way or the other, but it does encourage killers to hit the one being healed rather than the healer. That's often tunneling.

BT discourages tunneling, but then MFT comes along, cancels the BT and says "I changed my mind, now the correct play is to tunnel or else I get to play super-survivor."

It's one thing if a killer brings perks to tunnel or camp with, but when survivors are doing it, that's forcing the killer's hand in a way that maybe neither side wanted. Seems unhealthy.

ruin pre 6.1 was very healthy if you ask me.

oh, sorry. My posts disappeared for a second.

Why is it popular?

Well, it's a strong perk. It's not often Survivors come with good perks. Usually they're either mid, meme or just straight up bad.

Content creators have been going ballistic over it for months. That's definitely got something to do with it.

Definitely because some people go ballistic when they see it in game and give reactions.

that is what Pulsar is talking about. all the perks you named are what Pulsar described in his post which are perks that are mid, meme or straight bad. You don't see any of those perks because.... they're mid. that is why your complaining about MFT because it is strong perk that making you lose and you find that problematic.

Because it's niche.

Pure strength isn't the only thing that governs pickrate. There's also consistency, ease of use, and most crucially, what the perk actually affects. MFT affects chase, directly, and while it isn't easy to use it is very consistent; you'll almost always get the Haste unless the killer has anti-Exhaustion.

The only thing on your list that should have a high pickrate, according to the combo of strength, chase-focus, and consistency, is Troubleshooter, and admittedly I have no idea why that perk isn't more popular. It's comparably strong, much easier to use, and actually helps if you're not a super strong looper on top of helping solo queue more than SWF.

At a guess, I think MFT just overshadowed it. Troubleshooter doesn't have this discourse storm whipped up around it, so people overlook it more. That's just a guess, though.

It's only S-tier under certain circumstances.

Generally though, you need coordinated uses of it. You just do not get that in your average DBD game. Your teammates can't be getting off gens to get save, it can't be any number of Killers, it can't be in basement etc etc

It's a great perk in comp and in very specific circumstances in pubs, but because of its situational-ness, I can't say it's above a B-tier perk.

Then why should it matter what perks they run lmao. If you have such a doom and gloom mindset that the enemies are always better than you, why play multiplayer games at all, and not just stick to single-player games? Have this mindset going into games and you'll win.

mid-tier perk. it is not very good.

• reassurance relies on killer to play in a specific way otherwise it is empty perk. Situational
• It has very short range and it has associated time cost to use it. Killer that are dangerous near hook make the perk risky to use.
• gen-speed perk are stronger counter to camping. The alternative perks are better.

those are my guesses to why the perk is not popular. if there was a popular anti-camping perk, it would likely be kinship except that perk has major restrictions that make not very good because it requires coordination to use. if kinship had no range restrictions and immediately activated after being hooked, maybe you would see that as S-tier 25% pick-rate anti-camping perk. At the same time, I am not sure as it has never really been tested.

But i dont see any of those perks to be strong at all. Some can be useful if you hit that perfect scenario where the perk can shine but most are inconsistent, situational or just doesnt provide too much value to be strong or meta.

Reassurance is the best anti-camping perk(out of two) but its short range and the unnecesary nerf it got from ptb really set it back. It's very situational to get value from it.

Troubleshooter requires you to be in a map with lots of palets and on top of that, you need to be in a loop with high walls for it to be useful, on top of be facing a non-stealth killer so that it cannot block the aura read, on top of you not being affected with blindness from perks like UW which are popular. So it is very inconsistent.

Dramaturgy is a gamble perk. It is literally the definition of inconsistent. And with how nerfed most survivors items are today one is always hoping to get a toolbox just to get a broken key or a green map.

Fogwise gets hard countered by stealth killers and fearmonger, and even when not, the info isnt that useful to begin with. If it is a non-stealth killer you will hear the terror radius if he is approaching you, and the HUD will probably tell you if it is chasing another surv. For what it does i'd say Alert is objectively better since it doesnt require you to be on a gen doing perfect skill checks.

And Chemical trap mostly shines on god pallets, which if you are already using them you dont really need to use the trap when you can run another chase perk and make more distance.

Not saying these are bad perks, but nowhere near strong.

I agree that MFT is problematic, but it isn't as problematic as it is sometimes being made out to, either. While it isn't like it doesn't do anything for an average player, I think an average survivor will much of the time be better off using something like Sprint Burst or Overcome, which are much easier to get good value out of than MFT. An average player doesn't plan chases ahead very much, nor do they have an intimate familiarity with maps, tile spawns and even the distances they can make relative to the killer, let alone factoring in Bloodlust. An average player even with MFT will often be forced (forcing themselves or let themselves be forced) to play a tile and get mindgamed on it. It does take a reasonably advanced player to really utilize MFT to its full effect, as compared to other Exhaustion perks one could be using instead. Although I will say that Windows Of Opportunity plus Made For This (and Resilience, to a lesser extent) can make even a very average survivor fairly difficult to catch, because depending on the map, they can just run pallet-to-pallet and force you to break most of them if they are safe enough. And if you try to mindgame tiles where line of sight is broken, this may well allow even a lesser survivor to make a lot of distance by simply leaving the tile on a lucky gamble, which is less risky with MFT because even if the killer catches on quickly to the survivor having left the tile, with MFT they can not seldomly make the next one regardless.

Which leads me to the next point however, which is that chase perks arguably are categorically weaker than macrogame perks, so to have a meta where even average survivors invest up to 4 perk slots into chase play is not necessarily a bad thing. There are a lot of game scenarios where chase perks simply don't do anything for you. When the game revolves around hook and generator defense or hit-and-run playstyles, the interactions you have with a killer seldomly constitute actual chases. More often than not, you will be caught or forced out of position, taking hits being unavoidable, having to aggressively pressure objectives and not having the killer just chase after you for prolonged periods of time. In these and similar macrogame scenarios, perks that help you do gens and heal faster and more reliably, to coordinate better and have more information, or get out of tricky situations (second-chance perks or in fact Exhaustion perks like Sprint Burst that as opposed to MFT can allow you to get out of dodge quickly when you are otherwise outpositioned) are much more valuable than chase perks which regularly don't do much of anything here.

Further, there are quite a few instances where MFT doesn't do anything because the killer has an instadown ability or add-on or perk. Exhaustion-causing killer add-ons and perks are regularly also more detrimental for MFT than they are for other Exhaustion perks, because with the latter as soon as you recover Exhaustion you can use them to their full effect, whereas it might already be too late to really benefit from MFT at that point. Even more notably, MFT doesn't do much against the strongest killers, particularly Nurse, Blight and Spirit don't care too much at all about it, again positioning MFT as an arguably categorically less beneficial perk because the strongest killers are precisely those you even rely on perks to help you compete against as they lack reliable base counterplay. Granted, this is actually more so a point against MFT, it being particularly problematic for M1 killers that already are comparatively less strong.

Even Otzdarva (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVIEc7sE-20) who conducted an experiment in which he faced some really good survivor players (some of whom are generally regarded as the best 1v1 survivor players period, such as St1v1 and ivan) in 1v1 chases as an M1 killer with and without MFT to compare how much of an impact it has argues that the 3% isn't too problematic. Unfortunately the VoDs of those chases have by now been deleted and I couldn't find anyone having noted down the times either, but I trust that Otz ran the numbers and so it can't possibly have been too much of a disparity for him to come to the conclusion that this aspect of MFT generally is fine even when facing the best of players. What additionally factors into this is the fact that other Exhaustion perks which can prolong chases quite a bit as well cannot easily or at all be used alongside MFT, so really a more fair comparison would be having chases with MFT versus chases with, say, SB, Lithe or Overcome.

I would agree with Otz that the Endurance effect pushes the perk over the top, and that Haste stacking is problematic. Although it is really only Hope that it is problematic alongside of, so rather than make already gimmicky and weak perks like Dark Theory and Teamwork: Power Of Two even worse, they should simply make it so that Hope specifically doesn't stack with other instances of Haste.

I also think Exhaustion stacking is a bit more of an issue than he makes it out to be. I think if one thing is interesting about MFT, it's that it really mixes up the meta by challenging the Exhaustion perk paradigm, which have historically been the most consistent staple in the game. So the fact that you can use a perk like Dead Hard or Balanced Landing alongside MFT to use if needed is a bit too much. I would welcome a change where MFT simply causes Exhaustion all match long, itself then obviously not being affected by Exhaustion anymore however.

My nerf suggestions then would be to remove the Endurance effect altogether and make the perk cause constant Exhaustion, as well as making it not stack with Hope. Alternatively, I could see simple numerical nerfs work out too, that being reducing the Endurance duration to 5 seconds and the movement speed boost to 2%.

That i agree with.

A strong effect shouls come with heavy downsides. MfT currently rewards you for being injured with two very strong effects.