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Why is Decisive Strike still a 3 second stun?
It's so ass now, killers catch up way too quickly ffs
Comments
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when you play killer hit a deepwound then pick survivor up, eat a decisive strike then hit a DH.
you will know why.
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Yes, it needs a buff. At least back to 5 seconds like it was before. No idea what the person above me is even talking about.
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That only happens if you're trying to tunnel or if the survivor successfully baits you into chasing them, though. Pretty easy to avoid in both cases.
To the wider topic, it definitely should be boosted back up to its old five second stun. Keep the other changes made to it, those were all fair, but the stun duration definitely needs to be longer or it won't even deter killers from tunnelling when it's used on them, let alone dissuade them from trying to tunnel in the first place.
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survivor unhook then enter locker on face. killer had to let that man leave? or camping locker 40s?
like new anti-camping system, survivor don't know how to do, don't want to think how to do, don't want to learn how to do.
just want Gain an advantage in mechanics and perks.
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Easy Math problems.
unhook have 10s buff.
killer hit in 10s will chase 15s then hit again or kit in 10.1s down the survivor.
attack cooldown 2.7s pick up 3s.
Decisive Strike stun 3s, survivor can run 2s, 4.0m/s can leave killer 8m. or stun 5s survivor runaway 16m.
8m killer need to case 6.25s 【 (8-4.25)/0.6=6.25 】, 16m need to case 19.58s. 【 (16-4.25)/0.6=19.58】to hit again
if survivor have mft it will be (8-2.25)/0.48=11.98 and (16-2.25)/0.48=28.65 to hit again.
but survivor can DH.
1.8 runboost 2.7 cooldown no mft.
2.7-1.8=0.9s
0.9*4+1.8*6=14.4m
2.7*1=2.7m
14.4-2.7=11.7m ←survivor during attack cooldown can make this Distance from the 1.7-4.25
(11.7-4.25)/0.6=12.42s
Total:
min: killer hit in 10.1s+ no mft+ 3s DS+ no DH=10.1+6.25=16.35s
Max: killer hit in 9.9s+ mft+ 5s ds+DH=9.9+20.9(bloodlust will be 18)+28.65(blood lust will be 24)+12.42=64.32s
+2.7 attack cool down+ 3s pickup + 0~10s move to hook+ 2s hook=82.02s +8s move to gen=90
2 survivor repair gen need 90/(0.85*2)=52.941s
1 survivor repair gen need 90s.
so
now survivor have MFT+5s DS+DH+80 off record to force killer hit in Endurance
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If they're unhooked, there are two people who you could be chasing in that vicinity; the person who was just on the hook, and the person who just came to save them.
You should, in most cases, either be chasing the person who came to save them or be chasing a third survivor somewhere else on the map without returning to the hook to begin with. You do not need to chase the person who was just unhooked, and if they're hopping in lockers, they're baiting you into chasing them. Don't fall for it. Chase someone else, and let them waste their own time.
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cause you could abuse it with Head on to stun the Killers for 7 to 8 seconds.
Buffing it wont stop tunneling.
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DBD isn't math and all those calculations mean nothing.
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Agreed. 5 seconds DS would not stop tunneling but it would disincentivise it a bit. When survivors use perks to be strong in every situation but tunneling that of course means killers will utilise this weakness.
DS was a necessary evil. Evil because its pick rate was pretty high and necessary because tunneling is objectively stronger than spreading hooks. Buffing it back 5 seconds might mean that more people use it, which in turn would make killers consider the threat of DS a bit more and lower the amount of tunneling overall.
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I doubt it is as simple as that, and even if it was a necessary evil I doubt bHVR would want to play with the Perk namely because of that.
The only thing DS needs now is perhaps to put the Killer's Power on a Cooldown to allow it to be useful against Blight/Nurses.
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DS is only 1 minute before it disables and it’s a better option to just avoid the survivor who got unhooked at best and go for the unhooker instead
altho I do somewhat agree that it won’t rlly stop tunneling but it might somewhat delay it in a way or 2
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What does that matter? The Killer knew the risks and took the bait. That's a self-own, and I do that all the time when I bruteforce a kick through a known Blastmine because I want to Pop and/or Eruption the gen. The Killer has to weigh the costs and benefits and make the right choice for themselves. Them being bad at math seems like a silly reason to be opposed.
As far as 'buffing it wont stop tunneling', no it won't stop it outright, but tunneling has significantly increased since its nerf/removal. Reverting the timer nerf will decrease tunneling, and that is the goal.
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But that totally sucks and you can hit through if you immediately swing and they just go down... Or maybe even get a grab if you re that fast
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I have always just ate the DS stun. 100% its more efficient to just get stunned and then hunt them down again, than to try to find a new person and hit them twice. That I should worry about a perk so much it makes me not take an opportunity when it happens is probably the same reason why NOED never made survivors want to cleanse bones too. Anything else wastes more time than not.
Old DS was too good and it hurt the game, made it stale and every match was the same. And you want that to return. LMAO.
You would need more than luck to convince bHVR of that.
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That sounds super inefficient to me? You're spending even more time pressuring just the one survivor, leaving the other three free to do generators the entire time for massive progress in exchange for a single extra hook stage on one of your four targets.
It'd be so much more efficient to not actually be at the hook when the unhook happens at all, and to be chasing another survivor as it happens, as that's three survivors occupied. If you must be at the hook, though, chasing someone else at least temporarily occupies two people while the unhooked one either resets or makes their way to a generator. That's also more efficient than sinking more time into just the one guy.
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Please read carefully what they wrote. They specifically said "reverting the timer nerf" and you missed it or didn't want to acknowledge it.
The only part of DS that hurt the game was before the Conspicious Action and End-Game Rules which allowed survivors to use it offensively. The stun time nerf was nothing but to make it less appealing so the pick-rate drops which only resulted in no real consequence for tunneling thus a major increase in tunneling to the point it became the norm.
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Where did I say I wanted no CA endgame DS? That was old DS. Now to be fair I do think endgame DS is fine, but CAs should end it still. Even in endgame, just go after the rescuer. I don't understand why people who turbo-tunnel don't realize how easy that is to down the rescuer. Maybe they never tried?
Old DS was too good, when you could pump a gen and it would still be active. When you could heal the entire team, and it still be active. When you could cleanse Devour and it still be active. But the CA change fixes all of those problems.
5s wasn't too much, 5s was fair for an entire perk slot, especially since Head On is 40s CD exhaustion for a 3s stun, Blastmine is half a gen for a 4s stun (if the wiki is to be believed, I was sure it was a full 5s stun, oh well). DS can only be used once per match, and the unshouldering part of the stun you aren't even allowed to make distance (1-2s), so you could say it almost is a 1-2s stun in reality for the Survivor (individually, yes as a team they can get 9 gen seconds in that time frame, but that tunnel victim isn't getting anywhere).
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You guys make it sound like the only reason DS was nerfed was because the 5 second could be abused before CAactions.
But reducing its duration was suggested many times back then still.
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The reason the timer was extended was because Enduring worked against it. They temp fixed DS by increasing the timer, fixed the Enduring bug, but waited an absurdly long time to deliver on the promise of reducing it back down to 3s. I think it is because they realized it was a thin line keeping the game 'playable', and without sufficient other support mechanisms, people would leave in droves. I think it was better for the game health to have it at 5s, or at the very least remove Deep Wounding from anti-tunnel Endurance. The 6.1.0 patch had only horrendously bad perk changes (I'm fine with the core gameplay changes other than Endurance), as they were done to butcher fair and balanced perks, instead of buffing garbage perks into the realm of viability. They even had the gall to nerf Calm Spirit in that patch, that's how absurd their logic was in the 6.1.0 perk changes. They buffed Thana only to immediately nerf nuke it from orbit, which shows they didn't understand what they were doing to the perks.
The goal (at least appeared to be to me) was to replace DS with OTR for 'stale gameplay' reasons. The problem was OTR isn't a proper replacement. If you get hit off hook into BT, DS could still activate, but OTR doesn't. If they allowed BT into OTR, then we wouldn't have as massive of a tunneling problem as we do right now. Making anti-tunnel endurance act as a Mettle of Man white hit with no Deep Wound gives the Killer the feedback they need, while giving Survivors the effects they need. The event right now is flawed in that specific realm for that same reason, you can't know if someone has event Endurance in the realm, or if they were healthy when they exit. The Killer does know the person got off hook, and can hear the lack of grunts of pain, so they know OTR is up. They can choose to proc it, or go after the rescuer.
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How was it “abused” exactly? Playing around and forcing your DS on the killer could fire back if the killer downs and slugs you instead of picking you up
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Honestly OTR could’ve been even more decent if it cancelled STBFL hits like I don’t mind being hit off hook but atleast the perk should disable STBFL stacks
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Correct, but its the general consensus is that being slugged is boring. So leaving a perk in that forces slugging is not popular.
And oh boy was there a bunch of slugging back then, so bHVR changed it to prevent offensive use of DS.
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I doubt the offensive use was for that I mean I get it forcing a DS stun despite the killer had no plans to tunnel you is scummy but in the same time not much of a valid reason to nerf the stun duration
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I doubt they nerfed the stun specifically for the offensive use.
But they introduced the CA (Capricious Actions) because of that offensive use 100%.
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Then there’s no point in making it a 3 second stun if there’s already a set of penalties (CA) which disables it once it realizes you’re not getting tunneled out of the game
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Unless they have a reason to change the stun duration which you and I don't know. I am of the opinion that bHVR probably would not change things unless they really have to. I mentioned before where it could be used with Head On to chain-stun for 8 seconds. Not fun.
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The head on part could be literally avoided by not going for the same survivor after they get unhooked and being forced out of the game is not fun either btw
and ig it’s their game and they could decide what gets changed and what stays
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That might be something for OTR to apply on unhook, Obsession swap. Although that might make tunneling with Furtive Chase and PWYF a scary alternative. It might be worth PTB testing though.
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I’d just say give it a unique endurance where if it gets hit by STBFL the tokens are all instantly consumed
that way the perk will punish tunneling cause STBFL hard counters it
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As long as bodyblocking still can't be done. If the Killer can walk through an OTR bodyblock then I don't have a problem with that. For the most part M1 Killers use STBFL, so I wouldn't want to nerf M1s because people are 'get down Mr President'-ing to kill all STBFL stacks.
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Oh yeah and I forgot about the whole bodyblocking thing so that also isn’t much of a healthy change for the perk but there should rlly be a way to make it feel somewhat reliable when being tunneled cause STBFL usually helps the killer catch up easier along with the whole thing that this also harms M1 killers except nurse and blight
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I think a better alternative is that STBFL will not work when it hits OTRs endurance but it still keeps the stacks
that’s a way to make the perk somewhat viable to prevent tunneling and avoid the whole bodyblocking hits it provides
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That's something I've also thought about and it would definitely get the job done. Regardless of what route they go, I think buffing DS would overall be a good choice.
Knowing that survivors have no protection against tunneling, be that because they don't use any anti-tunnel perks or because they are so weak that they barely slow the killer down, will always have negative implications. When DS was still a 5 seconds stun and it was in every game, I considered tunneling to be way more risky. And I would say back when I played really serious, DS prevented me from tunneling quite a bit.
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Tell this story to Hex:Ruin, Tinkerer, Call of Brine etc.
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I don't agree they have no tools against tunneling, its just that taking a hit for a team mate isn't something people want to do.
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body block 10.1s is good for game? even killer hit and down the DS survivor it still have 30s to let teammates heal DS up.
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I think they were referred to perks in general from both sides cause there was a few unproblematic perks that could probably make a return today and I wouldn’t mind seeing them again cause I kinda miss seeing some old perks myself from both sides
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It should be buffed, however, the real issue at hand is tunneling and once that is addressed perks like this can find a happy medium to get the job done.
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