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Tunneling need concequences.
Let me make a point. There should be CONCEQUENCES when killers Tunnel AND camp. Getting tunneled out within 3 minutes of the match is not a "skill issue" with the survivor. It's a killer going after them, and staying nearby to make sure to get a survivor out as soon as possible. I have to say, Survivors keep getting nerfed, while killers keep getting buffed. Longer to heal? Longer to repair a gen? Items being USELESS?....while Killers can have 3-4 perks on so they ALWAYS know where survivors are? Perks to literally TAKE THE GAME HOSTAGE and keep survivors from doing ANYTHING? Slugging, and downing ALL SURVIVORS? That's not "skill!" That's cheap, unsportsmanlike, and HEAVILY unbalanced to HEAVILY favor the killers....you know, the ones to keep crying until they can kill every survivor in every game....WITHOUT any effort on their part? Yea.......How about penalties for crappy behavior like this.
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The killer's job is to kill you. If they want to focus you out, they are completely free to do so. If you are finding yourself getting tunneled out in every game, then it might be because you make yourself an easy target for the killer. It's a 25% chance the killer picks you to tunnel out over any other person on your team.
I'm sorry that the game doesn't make you literally impossible to kill without any sort of skill expression.
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I know that. I'm not expecting to be "impossible to kill."....but it is BS when you get removed from the match within 5 minutes, not able to do a single thing. The second I get off the hook, they're after me.....AGAIN. Survivors run MUCH slower than killers. Some killers will camp, and guard those that are hooked. That's not skill....that's being a sore, unskilled player. Survivor Perks are being nerfed into the ground, along will ALL survivor actions and speed.
Now, I'm not saying survivors should have major advantages, but tunneling and camping need to be looked at. If I have fun with a match, and actually able to do something, I don't mind being killed....but tunneled out right when the match begins? That's BS.
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But you can absolutely do something to prevent that. That's part of survivor gameplay. You have a lot of options to stay off the killer's radar, or alternatively, be on his radar and run a looping build. I have a more support role, so I keep my head down at the beginning of the match, but focus on knocking out gens and peeling the killer off people on deathhook when I can.
If you're constantly being eliminated within 5 minutes, you're needing to adjust your gameplay. The killer's job is to eliminate you. Your job is to keep your team from being eliminated. If you're not a looper, you gotta make yourself less noticeable by the killer. Consider what gen you are working on. Consider what side OF the gen you're working on. Do you have any escape routes planned?
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Part of that issue, is there are quite a few killers that survivors can not detect....until they're on top of you. Another thing, most Survivor Outfits I see.....are VERY noticeable by the killer (flashy as heck), but most killer outfits make it harder for the killer to be seen. Now, I am a casual player...not regular, hardcore, or religious. I play with a friend, who is more experienced...but STILL gets tunneled out and camped. I have had a few matches where I completely evaded the killer. I know how to play, but that doesn't make me any kind of master. I've looped killers, even lost them. (Edit:) I've even had a few matches where the killer was just being chill, and messing around with the survivors...you know.....having "fun" with us, instead of trying to finish the match as quickly as possible?
As I said....as Long as I have FUN in the match, being killed doesn't bother me. My issue is not with being killed, but being the sole target for the first 5 minutes. Another survivor unhooks me, the killer ignores them and comes straight for me....the SECOND I get unhooked (aka.....they are watching me.) getting, like 500 points because I am removed within 5 minutes of the start of the match. It's not the mechanics, but how some of these killers play, especially when they are being toxic. That's the issue I have.......but that can be said with any PvP game (which is why I tend NOT to play them.).
It seems to me, though....survivor perks, actions (gen repair speed a BIG notice), and speed keep getting nerfed (Why is it that survivor's sprint speed is just a leisure trot through molasses?).....while killers keep getting buffed. I suppose that will continue until the unskilled killers finally stop whining about "not being able to kill all survivors within 5 minutes."
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It takes no skill to tunnel someone out. Take solace in knowing eventually they meet their match and they can't tunnel someone out.
I enjoy it when they try with me and we all escape. They can stay mad about it.
They'll either have to learn to play the game without it or lose until they go back down where they belong where they can tunnel and win. Zzz.
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>It takes no skill to tunnel someone out
>I enjoy it when they try with me and we all escape
ok lmao
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But... tunneling has a consequence: 33% basekit slowdown for the rest of the match (if successful).
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I would love to not having to tunnel ... but thats just the current meta that forces my hand. Survivors as a whole learned that the most efficient thing to do is to split up and hugging gens like their live depends on it (frankly it quite literally does. Duh.)
So if I make one slight mistake during the first chase and it extends even a little bit too long, 3 gens will pop in unison. What am I going to do at that point, with one hook and only 2 gens to go? Chasing after someone else and allowing you with that 1 hook stage to jump on the next gen, slamming it just as efficient as everyone else? No, at that point the only chance to success is to tunnel you out and hope for the other survivors to peel away from the gens, trying to tank his for you. If they stay on gens, I will just get that first kill when the last gen pops.
The game is on fastforward mode for quite some time, and the prevalence of MFT/Resilience rewards survivors massively for staying injured and not healing, but just slamming gens like there is no tomorrow. The sad reality of DBD is that both sides optimised the fun out of the game via splitting up and slamming gens on one hand and (proxi-)camping/tunneling on the other.
Try playing killer for an evening and walk in their shoes. The first 10 games will be easy as pie, as the game matches you with mostly baby survivors, but once you enter the open waters of DBD proper, you head will spin from the sound of gens getting finished.
People always claim "just pressure gens, good killers don't have to tunnel someone out. Duh.", but thats utter delusional. I also have had this kinda games were a survivor team desintegrated and I could pick them appart one after the other and go for 12 hooks, but this survivors aren't sticking to gens, they are hiding at one whiff of the terror radius, self-healing in a corner and all that. A team that has the "gens before friends" meta down will not be fazed in the slightest by the killer being around, they will jump back on the gen the very second the killers back is turned, just as mercilessly slamming that gen, as the killer might be forced to tunnel.
And the strange thing is this: most killers know that tunneling is not cool and would love not to do it, but most survivor players can't see ANYTHING wrong with splitting up and slamming gens. When you bring up the topic its all "oh so you want survivors to purposefully play bad and not split up?" or "skillissues! Just apply pressure, or you are just a bad killer."
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survivor need concequences
for not good at hidding.
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As much I despise tunneling, you can't blame killers for using the most effective strategy. We should however absolutely nag BHVR until they do something about it so other more "acceptable" playstyles become just as viable, which wouldn't have to come in the form of a punishment for tunneling.
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Just look two post above yours, where I wrote a big piece about the killers POV of this problem.
In order to get this sorted out, you can't just take away more and more options from the killers, while ignoring the greater whole.
If we want 12 hook games, we need to tackle several points at ONCE, and not slight changes one after another.
Something like this:
1) all survivors share the first 4 hook stages. No matter what, the killer needs to 4 hook stages before the survivors individual hook stages get tackled. So while tunneling a weak link could work, it would usually not be the way to success anymore.
2) splitting up on gens needs some kind of basekit slowdown, at least for the first 3 gens. Maybe similarly, all gens share a healthpool at the start of the game, and once 1 gen worth of progress are removed, one of this gens pops and the other block for a while. Ganging up on the first 3 gens would be more beneficial then tackeling them slowly one after the other, giving the killer the opportunity to interrupt a gen getting done, but still allowing for slower single gen work. After the first three gens are done, the last gens can be done normally.
3) give killer old BBQ 25%BP bonus for each survivor hooked, but only increase the counter so long as no survivor has died yet, ie all 4 are still in the game.
4) give the killer a mini BBQ basekit, showing them the auras of yet unhooked survivors, so that they can increase their counter, not tunneling only one survivor out.
This is by no means perfect, but its some sort of start or idea, how to work this problem out. Not by slapping patch after patch on and making the live for everyone involved misserable, but trying to see WHY this behaviour is so prevalent and HOW it can be fixed.
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Tunneling isnt a Killer problem, its a Survivor problem and consequences of not keeping the Killer busy is someone getting tunneled out.
Survivors would rather gen rush than distract the Killer.
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Tbh as someone who t-bags as a survivor at times and killers tunnel me I don’t care because I want them to chase me. The reason why is because I’m confident in looping the killer for most of the game and I do.
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there should NOT be consequences. there should be rewards for not doing it. survivors are constantly getting base kit perks so why not give the killer base kit grim embrace or something.
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Yes I agree, as I said I don't think tunneling should be "fixed" by punishing killers who do it, but rather the devs should make other options viable, either through buffs / rewards for spreading hooks or through a rework of the whole thing like you're suggesting.
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There are consequences. If the killer tunnels, they have a much higher chance to win the game.
If these aren't the consequences you want, then too bad. Because that is where we are. I don't like it either, because hook spreading should be the go-to strategy but when that is heavily disincentivised and punished by the game itself, survivor perks and survivor play styles, how do you expect anything else? 4 chase perks per survivor means, that they are almost equal to a killer in the 1v1. That forces, the killer to focus on the 4v1. And eliminating 1 survivor early is about the biggest advantage a killer can get in the 4v1.
You get no advantage for playing nice, you get no extra BP (less because you are more likely going to lose) and you feel stupid because you do it to yourself. This is why tunneling is so common. But of course, we are only talking about punishing killers for playing in a way that survivors don't like.
All of what I said above can also be used for camping.
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the counterplay to killers doing their objectives is doing YOUR objectives, a generator takes 1:30 minutes or less, if your team is doing gens you literally win the match, and if you tap a totem, gen or try to heal it´s not a tunnel because you´re an active survivor, but sometimes soloq can waste your effort
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Hiding need consequences.
Let me make a point.
There should be CONCEQUENCES when survivor Hiding.
Hiding out within 3 minutes(2 gen is gone) of the match is not a "skill issue" with the killer.
It's a survivor Just hanging out, and staying nearby to make sure can not be found.
I have to say, killer keep getting nerfed, while survivor keep getting buffed. Runs faster, doesn't show aura, no scratches.
while Survivor can have 16 perks on and survivor have mac to talk so they ALWAYS know where killer are.
keep killer can't doing ANYHTHING except destroying generators? survivor just Hiding and done ALL GEN?
That's not "skill!" That's cheap, unsportsmanlike, and HEAVILY unbalanced to HEAVILY favor the Survivor....you know, the ones to keep crying until they can Escape every game....WITHOUT any effort on their part?
Yea.......How about penalties for crappy behavior like this.
lol, just kidding.
You think Tunnel/slug/camp is NO SKILL, now give you a question:
Why killer have a downed/hooked survivor? because killer is no skill?
or that survivor does not have skill at hiding/looping so that survivor be Found, chased, knocked down and hook.
this is killer Use their skills to down a survivor to take advantage and use this advantage.
AND YOU DON'T WANT KILLER USE THIS ADVANTAGE BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.
and you don't want to think how to deal with it, maybe you can't figure it out by yourself, not all player is top of this game, that is ok.
but you don't want to learn how to deal with it, that is Lazy and stupid.
this game is 6 years old, have so much Instructional videos, even steam guide can teach you how to Countermeasures Tunneling.
but you say "no, I don't want to know that. I just want killer can't do that thing because I can't handle."
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I understand that these experiences can be very disappointing but I think everyone has to remember that there is nearly always a counterplay. Take perks like DS, OTR, DH etc. with you. If we leave perks outside of this idea then your mates can take hits, bodyblock the killer, pressure with generatores and safe you once the exit gates are open.
There's a lot you can do about it.
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sure bud
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it's not enjoyable either as killer when you're forced to hard tunnel or lose, it takes away from my enjoyment of the game it's not only a survivor problem
example i'm in a good mood I decide to play nice> lose> get tbagged at exit gate, then next game I play stronger killer with meta build/hard tunnel to take revenge, but that team was playing more chill they all die at 4 gens, I play a lot of solo q so I can't help but feel bad for them, it's endless cycle of toxicity
even killers playing nice against me usually lose badly with 3-4 escapes, I don't like that spreading hooks should be more viable
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It's not fun either when you fae 4 MFT, 4 Resilence and 4 toolbox and 4 gen pop in a minute because they can repair gen in 30 seconds
But hey, that's what devs want, hard tunnel vs gen rush
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Agreed. We have come from a meta, that made tunneling a high risk, high reward strategy to one, that makes tunneling the go-to for (almost) every killer. When it should be the other way around. The only way to work against this, is a carrot and stick approach. There need to be more tools against tunneling and incentives to spread hooks.
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