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Ultimate Weapon is not OP.
Comments
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MFT is only good with pro players, I don't even like to use this perk because I don't feel any difference, it is strong with hope, but I don't even stay alive until the generators are completed, since the Ultimate Weapon works with any killer in any level, if the surv is not good at looping
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Anytime someone starts a post off with "This is not OP" it pretty much tells me the opposite. It screams that this is a perk that suddenly has turned into something that the poster realizes they have a serious advantage with and don't want to see it changed.
Same thing all the Survivor mains screamed about MFT or the original Dead Hard.
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Ultimate Weapon is literally THE strongest information perk on every killer, to the extent it makes most other information perks completely useless because you'd almost always be much better off just running UW.
Not to mention that Oni is completely busted with it AND Dead Man's Switch and Hexes in general are especially strong with it as well.
As mentioned before it's an on-demand bubble around you that makes survivors scream, requires only a locker-check and has a relatively short cooldown for how amazing the effect is. It's also ONLY counterable by running an otherwise-useless perk that actually makes you WEAKER at certain things.
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cmon man, i use calm spirit
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Exactly.
Compare it to other perks, say "I'm All Ears" from Ghostface. That only triggers if a survivor fast vaults and then it only shows the aura of one survivor. Oh, and it has a CD of 40 seconds so it already triggers less often then Ultimate Weapon.
The CD needs to be in the 60 to 90 second range at least with how strong it is.
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It astounds me survivors are whining about a niche perk. damn you need to learn to counter a perk damn how harsh,, waint you cant 4 stack meta perks ohh the horror..
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Meanwhile, I’m very often seeing 2-3 Made for This per game, because it’s made all the other primary chase perks obsolete at higher MMR, and the only other useful chase perks at higher MMR are the ones that synergies with Made for This.
And Windows of Opportunity is also disproportionally over picked in my games, and I’m seeing it way more often than any other survivor information perk.
And I’m still seeing a lot of killers that would rather use aura perks than Ultimate Weapon, because they would rather have 5-9 seconds of continuous survivor detection, than have single points of detection that alert the survivors that they have been revealed.
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This is the Nowhere To Hide dilema again, if you want to be steath go all the way with it and equip perks to hide yourself. These perks are healty for the game, they incentivize the killers to start new chases instead of camping because he can't find anyone. It also punishes those who refuse to advance in their objective and lengthen the games unnecessarily.
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i play both sides and they are not wrong it is truly a major case of skill issue
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying but when nurse blinks she can still see what's going on around her and change the direction she's facing in mid blink. This means she can see you dodge or juke the first blink while she's in the middle of it and set up to immediately use the second blink to go to where you dodged to.
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You understood right, that's what I wanted to know, the problem is that I see some nurses do this even through walls, I believe it's because the user has an expensive headset and can be guided by the noise of footsteps and crows
But the subject here is about the ultimate weapon, and really this type of perk is very strong on killers like the nurse, I personally think that aura and information reading perks should follow the same rule: when the killer uses the power these perks deactivated, using the "There is nowhere to hide" perk gives the nurse the ability to find survs all over the map, which is kind of strange for a killer who is strong and can traverse the entire map very quickly, now in a clown she it is only useful to see if there are survs near an almost finished generator
But of course this is my opinion, I know there will be a lot of killers saying they need these perks against pro players and swf, but in general against these players they are useless in practice because their focus is on chasing, the problem is that against less experienced survs, one of them being eliminated by the killer is already a guaranteed victory for him, that's what I think is wrong with these perks and the game itself
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I think the game favors main killer more than main surv in practice, what happens is that the game doesn't favor all killers at high level, example: at low level you can use any killer that is almost certain to win, at high levels you can train a Nurse, a spirit, a Blight, a Wesker maybe, that you still have conditions to win, and even with weak killers you can do about 2 kills, since the camping and tunnel and even slug are still strong, despite of not being as oppressive as they used to be
to be honest UW is not as OP as I said, but it can still hinder less experienced players, in the same way that "nowhere to hide" and lethal pursue" do
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i dont camp tunnel or any of that stuff it does not make you better nor does it make you cool it makes you lazy and looked down on.
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Not sure what Made For This being broken has to do with Ultimate Weapon being overtuned but okay. Like yeah there's other perks that need nerfing too but this thread is about Ultimate Weapon.
Also the reason Ultimate Weapon isn't used as overwhelmingly as other perks (even though I still see it a -lot- in my survivor games) is that a lot of people haven't purchased Alien.
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Made For This has made all the other primary chase perks obsolete at higher MMR. If you really want perks to be nerfed whenever they make other perks obsolete, then you should care about Made For This. Otherwise, you're just making up a double standard.
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I find it funny that killers get more aura perks, then Distortion gets buffed to properly counter it, and then the newest intel perk completely circumvents Distortion. It's like a really slow game of rock-paper-scissors.
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I do think Made For This should be nerfed but what does that have to do with Ultimate Weapon? Am I not allowed to complain about a perk without ALSO having to mention all the other things that are a problem in the game too? That's called whataboutism and is a very poor way of having a discussion just fyi.
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Bringing up double standards isn't a whataboutism.
If you want to complain that perks should be nerfed if they make other perks obsolete, then your standard should work for both sides of the game. Made for This has greatly overshadowed every other primary chase perk in the game, at higher MMR.
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Dude, this thread is about Ultimate Weapon, if I started talking about how I hate Made for This and that it needs to be changed that's blatently going off topic. If I feel like it I might comment in one of the many MFT threads and give my opinion on it there but this isn't the place for it.
You're literally telling me I can't discuss my opinion on this thread's topic without bringing up unrelated information.
Also I DO think MFT should be nerfed, I really don't understand what your problem is, I'm a killer main.
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If the counter to a perk is another perk, then chances are that perk might be busted.
Afterall, going by your logic, old CoH wasn't OP, since all Killers had to do was use Shattered Hope
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Killer Perk OP: must be a skill issue
Survivor perk OP: OMG the devs are so survivor sided, please fix your game it's impossible to win!
-____-
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Imagine complaining about lockers lmao when you could complain about Distortion of all perks. Hiding in lockers provides you downtime because that means survivors are not doing gens and a killer that brings aura perks also brings Lethal Persuer which makes every other aura last 2 secs more. Plus you can only go into the locker when you know they are hooking someone, how can you know the triggered aura building in other instances?
If Doctor can play fine with lockers then there's no reason for this perk to be even better that Doctor's power, except for BHVR's weird desire of changing the meta as it is currently doing.
All that's left now is people saying UW is actually not strong at all so I can have flashbacks of killers claiming Eruption was actually counterable if you brought Empathy and could tell when your teammate was going down.
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Probably one of those people going"actually if you bring Empathy you can let go of the gen before your teammate goes down and Eruption won't hit you".
MfT and UW being strong at the same time is cause BHVR wants to push the meta in this direction. It's not a coincidence MfT is not getting addressed yet and UW is a perk that starts chases, because the want a chase focused meta. The only way to counter UW maybe currently is to not go down to deny killer pressure. How do you not go down? You bring MfT. UW being stronger just reinforces the need for MfT to stay strong.
They probably had this planned all along that's why MfT has not been addressed so far.
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Look, it's not the perk that's broken, the characters that benefit the most are and sure there are killers in that category like Wesker with his 40m terror radius that is fun to play against but the rest are just... Dreadful
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As survivor you can pick 4 perks.
There are 112 Killer perks, and you say one perk is that strong that you should allways equip a talent thats almost useless when killers are not running that perk?
Sounds pretty strong to me.
As only killer player im not saying that it is OP but it is the strongest informationperk we have atm. And i really hope that it will stay because now Surivors have to choose if thy play Distortion or Calm spirit. If they use both, they block allready 2 perks
I mean its like Nowhere to hide, just stronger.
- Its based on your Terrorradius, so for most killers 32m instead of 24m (nowhere to hide)
- It stays on for 30sec instead of only 5sec
- Its easier to activate
- its faster to activate
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I literally don't care if people in lockers aren't repairing generators. If I'm searching for survivors, and find zero survivors, then I've wasted all the time I've spent looking for survivors, and I would have been better off camping or holding a 3-gen, instead of wasting time trying to find survivors that are excessively hiding. And there's zero point of almost every killer aura perk in the game, because lockers and distortion hard counters most of them.
The result is that if Ultimate weapon gets nerfed, then killers are better off just running slowdown, and proxy camping instead of wasting time looking for a new target. And if a killer is patrolling generators, kicks the generator and doesn't see anyone, then the best action is to immediately go back to patrolling generators.
Doctor's secondary survivor reveal is much better than Ultimate Weapon, because zero things in the game block it. And static blast helps unlock Doctor's secondary survivor reveal.
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Ultimate Weapon would be OP if it was the old DBD where Stealth was the common playstyle.
However this isn’t the case anymore. Looping clearly is.
Ultimate Weapon also resolves stall situations where two remaining Survivors just hide for the whole game waiting for the other Survivor to get caught so they can get hatch.
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killer perk op: omg nerf blindness op
survivor perk op: yes survivors shouldn't get one decent perk. it's just 3% anyway killers should get good
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People already proxy camp and bring slowdown, what are you on? Same argument everytime "if killers get buffs they won't have to resort to camping/slugging/tunneling" and we all saw what happened during the Eruption meta, although i would not be surprised if you started to argue that it was actually a perfectly balanced perk lol.
People who are not confident in their chase skills bring 3 or more slowdowns still, have you been living under a rock? Others can bring a combination of slowdown and aura perks, so they can transition to the next target. Are we gonna argue again about "actually if you play the game perfectly as survivor and with good co-ordination Ultimate weapon isn't a problem" like when the exact same thing happened with Eruption? "Actually if you equip Empathy you can see when your teammate is gonna go down and let go of the gen". Not to mention this meta had the worst 3-gens that unless you brought toolboxes and perks for breaking it you couldn't do anything and we'd still get bullshit counterplay advice. So yeah even when killer was pretty strong, killers still did all those strategies you claim they would do if the perk got nerfed. I'm frankly exhausted of getting the same argument that is not even true in 2023. And the worst offenders for those disliked strategies are none other than the strongest killers as well who actually can afford to play in a different way, they already do proxy-camping, holding 3-gens , slugging and tunneling pre UW and after.
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I didn't say any of that. I'm saying that perks like current Ultimate weapon are necessary, if BHVR wants to encourage killers to leave a hooked survivor, or to leave a 3 gen.
And I didn't say anything about countering Ultimate weapon. The whole point of my argument is it shouldn't have 100% counters. The whole point of many of my arguments is that survivors excessively hiding is the biggest problem in the game.
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Reduce time of effect to 10-15 seconds, then go on cooldown for 30 seconds. Blindness duration remains at 30 seconds. All Blindness effects should be long because otherwise it does nothing.
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Then what are perks supposed to do? Everything is a counter to something else.
Terminus is a counter to Adrenaline.
Sloppy is a counter to healing speed perks/medkits.
Inner Healing/Renewal are counters to Sloppy.
Counterforce is a counter to Hex perks.
Iron Maiden is a counter to lockers and locker perks.
Lightborn is a counter to flashlights and flashlight/blinding perks.
Fact is there are a lot of things that can cause survivor to scream, and the more such mechanics are added to the game, the more valuable Calm Spirit becomes. You have Doctor, Pain Res, Jolt, Infectious Fright, and now Ultimate Weapon, all viable and common causes of screaming. Not to mention Make Your Choice and Dragon's Grip, which killers won't expect to be circumvented this way.
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Survivors hiding hasn't been a problem since Nowhere to hide has been released and stealth perks like Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Self Preservation, Spinechill have been bad.
Even if you hate Distortion you can alternatively bring Spies from the Shadows. Ultimate Weapon does things aura reveal does but better and is harder to counter, so of course it's overtuned. But I guess it's ok now because it's a killer perk.
Ultimate Weapon does not discourage any of the strategies you mentioned exactly because it's way better than BBQ and Chill and No where to hide. You hook someone and you just open the locker. Well now you know if someone is close to the hook, so how does that incentivize you to leave hook exactly? How does it disincentivize from holding a 3-gen when you don't even have to personally check to see if someone is on a gen but can simply check the locker therefore saving you the time to walk there? What about when you pair it with Dead Man Switch? If anything it seems to synergize pretty well with gen slowdown.
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Killers need reliable counters to survivors that want to excessively hide.
If a killer hooks a survivor, and finds someone else with Ultimate weapon, they are incentivized to chase that person to keep up tempo. And if the killer doesn’t find someone else near the hooked survivor, they are incentivized to patrol the map, because they actually have a decent chance of finding someone else, even if those survivors are hiding.
And it incentivizes killers to leave a 3 gen because they might actually be able to find someone to chase. Half of the 3 gen problem involves survivors that pre leave generators when their visual terror radius lights up, and are long gone by the time the killer gets there. Unless the killer has a tracking perk that helps them out, it’s not worth it for the killer to search the area for the survivor, and the killer is better off kicking the generator and going back to patrolling the generators.
The main problem is there are so many line of sight breakers in the game now, that manually searching for survivors that are excessively hiding, is a waste of time unless a tracking perk reveals their location. This isn’t a case of “ultimate weapon makes it so I don’t waste time searching an area where survivors aren’t in”, because I’m not going to waste time searching an area, if I don’t know if anyone is there, if I could be camping or holding a 3 gen instead.
A big part of the camping problem, in general, is that it’s not worth leaving a hooked survivor, to search for survivors that are excessively hiding, unless a tracking perk reveals their location.
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1. Create a problem
2. Sell the solution
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I'll buy it! ... oh, I already did :P
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It being OP maybe is debatable, but it is absolutely no fun and extremely frustrating to play against, especially considering there's no viable counter other than losing s perk slot for calm spirit. It's an unhealthy kind of perk that doesn't belong in the game.
For what it's worth, I'm a killer main, and even I can see how much of a problem this perk can be.
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What you're saying makes no sense. The reason killers have to leave hook is because if they don;t apply pressure elsewhere the survivors can just do gens. It's not UW that's gonna incentivize them to leave the hook because like I said if someone is close by you don't even have to leave the hook with UW because you'll know. BBQ incentivizes you to leave the hook because it only shows you survivors that are far from the hook.
And same with the 3gen. Killers will avoid to chase survivors if the survivor is running far from the 3-gen. With UW you don't even have to move your ass to scare survivors cause you can just make then scream trigger Dead Man Switch and THEN chase them. You're literally not sacrificing anything and are putting to onus on the survivor to outplay you.
UW survivor actually reinforces all the strategies that people complain are sweaty. Want to tunnel someone but they have Lucky Break and you lost them? Just open a locker. Wanna hold a 3-gen and gen slowdown? Bring UW. Want to be a hook defendor? Bring UW. If anything it seems to me like UW has no downsides because it doesn't make you commit to anything. It simply gives you all the info you need to make your decision as risk free as it can be for the price of one perk.
You bring one perk for chase? Sure UW is good.
Now if you bring Dead Man Switch you just upgraded it to an informal slowdown gen defending perk.
Your posts only makes sense if YOU decide you don't wanna play that way, but that says more about you than it says about a perk that basically allows you to make the safest decisions possible because of all the info it provides. Having to rely on killer's good will whether they wanna use this perk to its fullest potentail or just use it as a chase perk is a flimsy argument.
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If you can only think of those situation where UW is good then your imagination is lacking.
It's a great gen slowdown tool while also being a chase perk and an information denier for solo survivor.
Watch some youtube videos where people pair it with Dead Man Switch and tell me it's not multipurpose.
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Doctor can be countered by lockers.
Aura perks can be countered by lockers.
Ultimate weapon cannot be countered by lockers.
How is a perk with absolutely 0 counter not OP?
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If the killer finds someone with Ultimate weapon immediately after hooking a survivor, then they have a new target to chase, which means they aren't camping, and they aren't tunneling. They're literally chasing someone new, which is what killers are supposed to do.
People keep complaining when killers aren't chasing new targets, but they're also super against killers getting any tools that might help them chase a new target.
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You do realize a survivor could be close to the hook right? And finding him means not only is he pressuring the survivor he's chasing but also the hook. Which did not happen with BBQ and Chili.
Isn't it obvious that been able to pressure two objectives close to each other is a strong advantage? And again, in 3-gen situtations UW doesn't force you to chase someone you can easily use it to interrupt gens and commit even less to chases, doing the exact opposite that the perk is supposed to do. How hard is it to understand that UW is not a one dimentional perk?
It counters perks like Distortion, most stealth perks, can synergize with gen slowdown outside its designates role, is a much better information perk than Aura perks and is extremely efficient at that two. Instead of devoting two perk slots for Lethal Pursuer and BBQ/No Where to Hide, you can instead devote one perk that does their jobs even better and allows you to bring one more strong perk. If that is not an advantage what is? This perk is so multi-faceted. And except for denying stealth for survivors and possibly slowing down gen progression with its pair Dead Man Switch (which you have yet to address this combo lol), you can also use it to deny survivors information from their own aura reading perks, which for solo survivors is a huge thing.
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Yes, I realize a survivor could be close to the hook. That survivor can run away from the hook. They aren't required to loop the killer near a hook.
And I can 3 gen perfectly well without Ultimate weapon. It's literally just kick gen and continue patrolling. Survivors are pre-leaving the generators so early, and for so long, that the generators aren't getting repaired, regardless of whether or not they are screaming because of a perk.
And no one needs to devote two perk slots to get value out of Nowhere to hide, because the aura reading lasts long enough basekit. And BBQ is a useless perk, because it's too easily dodged, and it reveals people that are so far away that they'll be long gone before you get there.
And dead man's switch is garbage unless you're Artist, and launching a crow from across the map. The most likely scenario on everyone else is I interrupt someone, chase after them, and the gen gets blocked when I'm chasing the only person that was repairing it, so who cares if it's blocked? And dead man's switch only triggers after a hook, so it doesn't even work in an extended 3-gen, as it requires the killer to actually get hooks.
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They'll leave the hook because you're forcing them too by finding them. It's not the natural sequence of things. Quite a few killers bring LP and usually the strongest ones at that. Acting like a Nurse/Blight with one extra perkslot will not be an issue.
That's the thing though, with UW you can bring both a chase starting perk (and it is currently the best info perk in the game for killer) and kick perks because it only takes one slot, effectively aiding each other. You literally need hooks for Pop to take effect as well as Pain resonance. Unless you're running Overcharge/CoB/Eruption or something still.
Dead Man's Switch is not garbage, its pretty useful at slowing down the game and nothing stops you from bringing more gen kicking perks to pair with, which I've seen a lot more often the past few months. It cannot be compared to pre-nerf Eruption ofc but no gen kicking perk can.
Pain Resonance also works incredibly well with it because you know where to go for your next token AND it's no longer reactable since the timing of hook screams got changed.
This perk offers a lot of versatility for most killers (I wonder is there a killer who would not benefit from this perk) and it is especially strong on the strongest killers that have built in mobility.
If this becomes a perk that can be run on any killer and give insane value, then it would be undeniably OP.
To top it all of the skill floor of this perk is incredibly low, even a monkey can use it. It has no skillful pre-requisite (like say it activates after your first hook or first kill or something). It's useful across all killer levels.
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I think UW is definitely an extremely unfair perk. Especially if we have a killer that's tunneling and especially with killers that literally just stand right in front of a survivor that's hooked. And then they run. I forget the name of the perk wear your exposed and you literally can't save another person. There's no hiding from them. All they have to do is open a locker and figure out where you are. I think it's ridiculous that they lessened iron will and being able to self-hill. And they give all the really great perks to the killers.
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Ultimate Weapon is definitely a tad overpowered. Being able to find anyone anywhere at any point is already powercreeping any tracking perk that's ever been released, and then on top of that it provides Blindness and interrupts actions, which is particularly relevant for healing under Hemorrhage, for gens with Dead Man Switch, for blessing or cleansing totems, or even for trying to get your RBT off or putting your tape away.
Locating anyone around hooks makes camping much more effective, knowing when to camp and how hard to camp, being able to chase would-be unhookers away before they even get close enough for a potential trade, pressuring people off gens around the hook without needing to worry about someone getting the unhook for that. Securing stage transitions made easy. An unhooked survivor also cannot hide from you, free for the tunnel out. You can more effectively protect a 3-gen setup because you can check from afar whether someone is on any of your gens, as well as snuff out reset locations, which is crucial. The Dead Man Switch synergy is also particularly nasty on a gen cluster setup, for obvious reasons. Slugging becomes more potent because not only can you quickly and reliably find your next targets, but survivors will also be blind, having a harder time finding any slugs. The endgame that is already fairly heavily skewed in the killer's favour basically becomes unwinnable with UW in play. Highly problematic Hexes such as Devour and Pentimento will be nigh uncleansable. Pig can reliably find and prevent people with RBTs from removing them. Sadako can reliably find Condemned survivors or ones close to Condemnation trying to bring a tape away. Stealth is integral to being able to compete against Nurse, Blight, Spirit and Oni, so good luck with that.
I'm a big fan of tracking perks in general and hate looking for survivors, and I would welcome the introduction of UW if it weren't for the fact that it encourages and supports some of the already more problematic elements of killer gameplay. An adjustment to the active duration (15 seconds) and/or cooldown (60 seconds) is reasonably in order, although alternatively I would like to see changes such as disabling the perk around the hook (i. e. it doesn't activate on anyone as long as the hooked survivor is within the killer's terror radius) and making recently-unhooked survivors exempt from it, nerfing its propensity to camping and tunnelling playstyles.
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The CS slander has to stop.
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Happens all the time and we just go back to running and running and running kind of like forrest..
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r/whoooosh
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MFT cannot be compared in the slightest to UW. Opening a locker takes zero talent and skill. However, if a casual looper (which is majorty of this game is) equips MFT, it's not going to do much and I've seen them go down...FAST.
The argument has no premise. Its easily shut down.
UW is just goofy. Open a locker and get survivor locations, wow, how'd you manage to do that? I'm in awe of your gaming abilities and talent. Please teach me your ways. How do I do it, I think I'll need a 45 minute YT tutorial on how to use UW. Anyone have one to help me out?
But looping better, nah, that's ezclap. No one surely would make long videos to teach that, it's spoon fed to us yo. Please stop, my sides, all six of them, can only take so much 😭
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