November Dev Update!
Comments
-
Another killer-sided update with survivors nerfs and killer buffs. BHVR just follows the killer mains' orders
9 -
(Old) Lethal and Corrupt activate at the start and then turn off for the rest of the match! Why do you want to add a requirement to it, what should that be? When you are running them, you are down to three/two perks after the effect wears off. With Lethal, you at least have the secondary effect, but that also only comes in play if you dedicate perk slot for another aura perk.
If "perks without a requirement" are an issue, then what about Bond, Deja Vu, Visionary, Whispers, Nurses, Stridor, ... practically all tracking / info perks have little or no requirements. But adding one to each would just be silly and serve no purpose other than making the weakest set of perks even weaker.
Just because a perk works unconditionally, it does not mean it is broken or op. Thats a silly metric. On the contrary, we have many perks that DO have requirements for a completely underwhelming effect, eg. Rookie Spirit.
It's always about how much of a benefit a perk gives you, whether a requirement / restriction would be needed or not. Mft gives too much value practically the whole match for a little unconvenience (being injured), so it is changed. Imo, UW gives too much value the entire match for a slight inconveniece (opening a locker).
Bhvr has a track record of releasing way too many perks with too many restrictions, and just recently adjusted some of them to make them actually worth running (Trail of Torment, Claustrophobie, Furtive Chase). Thats the right direction, but surely not adding arbitrary restriction / requirements to perks just bc they give value "for free".
2 -
You're putting a heck of alot of words in my mouth. I haven't asked for anything or called anything broken. I've been making observations on BHVRs decision-making regarding perk changes. But thanks for the reading material 👍
4 -
Lethal pursuer, a perk that gives you aura reads at the beginning of the trial, and corrupt that blocks 3 gens furthest away for first 2 minutes, or until you down someone just activate as the killer spawns in the trial, like Idk what exactly you think a killer should do to "earn" those? Maybe a nice little dance at the beginning? I'm really confused by your thought process here, because it seems you want to say these perks are op.
Like sprint burst gives a strong effect but has things to keep it balanced.
"Oh my, the survivor just stood there until exhaustion was removed and now they are sprint bursting away again. Such easy activation requirements" I guess if you were a killer main instead of a survivor main this would be what you would be saying.
1 -
No. They are not OP, nor do I think they need the additional requirements treatment. But I also don't think the way to nerf perks, such as MFT, is to add additional requirements when they're releasing other perks - such as the aforementioned - with very little/no effort for decent value. People shouldn't have to "earn" every perk, yet I see calls for it all the time and apparently BHVR agree. They're making a habit of nerfing meta perks - of which both LP and CI are - so is it wrong of me to wonder how, if they're going to go the additional requirements route, they might change other perks going forward?
I actually don't think any perk in the game is OP. I've literally never asked on this forum for a single nerf to a single perk. Your Sprint Burst example is amusing, since there are actually people here who say SB, and other exhaustion perks, are too easily obtained.
4 -
Trickster changes were unexpected but welcome.
Garden of busted main building getting toned down and shrunk in size is good
The new changes to MFT is a nerf from a general perspective. However there is potential for it in the form of combinations with Deadhard/OTR/Buckle up + FTP combo.
I would say butchering the perk would be if BHVR completely removed the movement speed boost from the perk but they merely made the activation requirement harder. The perk also now has a change in synergy with exhaustion perks. Previously Survivors would use the 3% to get to safe loops and only use Dead hard when cornered to extend the chase, now it is the opposite. This also means a Survivor getting hit immediately after unhooked would get to use exhaustibles such as Lithe/SB and get the 3% haste before and after being exhausted.
This change also reduces the value from running Resilience + MFT + Hope, which incentivized not healing and is a pretty common combination I see on survivors.
Lithe/SB/ Dead Hard+ Off the Record+ MFT would be a decent perk combination for the average solo queuer who doesnt want to get tunneled immediately. While it won’t stop a fixated tunneler, it will waste a lot of the Killer’s time.
While it is still a nerf, it is not a end of the world unusable nerf like DH or Ruin.
1 -
Please take another moment to let what you think sink in.
MFT works the moment they're injured, not after a hook with OTR
MFT works without the success of using DH
MFT works without the dark blood overlay on the screen to make the looping harder
MFT didnt require another perk to work (getting Deep wound for 3%), it works by itself
A perk requires another perk to work, is a nerf. The only think true is only the high end of MMR can use MFT.
Old selfcare took 32sec to heal, New selfcare requires another perk (Botany) to make similar thing. Is a nerf.
I dont defend MFT, but you like to make survivor's nerf seems like recieved a buff.
10 -
I did use the example of sprint burst, because I find those complaints ridiculous as well. As someone who plays both sides relatively equally, sometimes a bit more killer, sometimes a bit more survivor, I always try to apply a more logical stance thinking about buffs and nerfs.
But yeah mft had to be changed. Now, this change feels kinda clumsy, but it works, so whatever. I personally would simply remove the gaining of endurance upon healing someone, and remove haste stacking, so no more 110% speed survivors in the endgame. That would've been a sufficient nerf in my book.
2 -
Trickster seems like he's going to be terrible to play against now. I already disliked him enough before.
MFT change is pretty bad too, but classic BHVR.
Smaller maps are pretty fair though.
2/10 patch.
2 -
"I personally would simply remove the gaining of endurance upon healing someone, and remove haste stacking, so no more 110% speed survivors in the endgame. That would've been a sufficient nerf in my book."
I actually said exactly the same in a previous thread on MFT. It was how I was expecting the perk to be changed too. I don't agree with alot of how BHVR has chosen to change meta perks, personally.
3 -
The "nerf" is making other survivor perks more valuable again.
Lets say a survivor takes MfT, DH, OtR and DS. After the first hook, OtR kicks in (80 seconds of old IW) if the killer tunnels, he gets the Enduring effect of OtR + the 3% speed bonus (1rst hit). If the chase lasts less than 60 seconds DS (2nd hit) = reset on the Endurance effect. DH (3rd hit) starts another Enduring effect for 3% and it requires 4 hits to down the survivor.
No, MfT won´t be a bad perk. It will enable other perk combos, that made little sense until now. But can shine pretty strongly.
Also, SWF using Flashlights, MfT, FtP and Background Player. Will be incredible annoying for killers.
0 -
Ok, lets say you use MfT, OtR, DH and DS. Its a anti-tunnel nightmare for killers, where he has to hit you 4 times to down you after the first hook. Instead of having the speed boost before DH, you now get it after DH = more distance for DH.
Mixing MfT and any exhaustion perk before the "nerf" would be pointless. You can´t use SB, Lithe or Background player with MfT right now. But after the change, it will be possible to have the best of both worlds.
0 -
Why do you keep saying "nerf" or keep saying this isn't a nerf? The perk won't be active most of the time and it isn't going to have a %100 up-time when injured like how it is at the moment. New version has a limited and situational use. That's the definition of nerf. Doesn't matter how you dance around the words or which angle you look at it from. It's a nerf. I'm not saying it's a garbage perk now or anything but you trying so hard to not call it a nerf is kinda funny because I've seen you do it on every post about the MFT nerf LOL.
9 -
Most of these pointless discussions wouldn't even be happening if bhvr was able to design perks that weren't utterly broken to begin with
It was clear MFT would've been broken, it was clear CoH would've been broken, as it was clear Eruption would've been broken. Yet they released them as they were, when the whole concept of the perk shouldn't have left the design room at all to begin with.
Moving on, I wouldn't call UW broken but it's still very badly designed and yet they went through with the lingering effect anyway outshining every other location perk (+ the completely unnecessary secondary effect too). A common argument against MFT is "you need to earn the effect, all you do is get injured and have free haste" yet all you do for such a strong effect is open a locker? How is it earned?
5 -
Extremely good?
Any perk that requires more than one person to even use can be hardly considered "extremely useful".
2 -
Ok, lets say you use MfT, OtR, DH and DS. Its a anti-tunnel nightmare for killers, where he has to hit you 4 times to down you after the first hook. Instead of having the speed boost before DH, you now get it after DH = more distance for DH.Let's compare both worlds, right now vs the proposed with this exact build.
You get unhooked: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you don't.
You take a OTR hit: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you have MFT.
You get downed and DS: right now, you have MFT, in new world, you don't.
You pull off a DH: right now, you don't, in new world, you have MFT.
That means over that chase period, you've gone from having three situations with MFT to two. And this presumes a hard tunnel, if the killer is not tunneling you're right back in the situation of avoiding conspicuous actions to get value out of the perk. This is on top of other major issues like losing MFT before the first hook stage, you only get one DS (meaning you can only pull this combo off one time), and that you have to successfully pull off the Dead Hard.
It's a massive nerf.
Mixing MfT and any exhaustion perk before the "nerf" would be pointless. You can´t use SB, Lithe or Background player with MfT right now. But after the change, it will be possible to have the best of both worlds.So it's possible to use MFT and a non-DH perk together, but now you're relying on pulling off a heal while injured and the killer swinging into it to get a deep wound (or running against a killer with a natural deep wound attack to get any value out of it). I highly doubt we'll see this combo.
Will we see some people run DH and MFT together, yes, but I think it will be a pretty rare combo.
4 -
I assume you're referring to Circle of Healing there and not Eruption, but either way, yes. CoH is a Zone Of We'll Make It, and since that perk is also extremely strong, CoH is too.
Effective altruism is extremely powerful. Fast healing is extremely powerful. Don't neglect your teammates.
0 -
Because perks that get nerfed usually don´t receive a buff at the same time. MfT gets nerfed by requiring the survivor to be in the deep wound state. But it also gets buffed at the same time, by removing the exhausted limitation.
"Nerf" is kinda shorter than nerfbuff. Can´t call it a change, because the perk performs exactly the same, just at a slightly different moment. Survivors will now just trigger it by body blocking after getting unhooked.
Removing the exhausted limitation is extremely big. As i already mentioned several times.
0 -
Survivors will either trigger it by body blocking or by using OtR. If they don´t use DH, they can use literally every single exhaustion perk. Where previosly, you couldn´t. Because you had to choose between MfT or SB/Lithe/Background player. Each one is a strong perk. Just like MfT. You will be able to combine 2 Strong perks and have both advantages. Sure, not 100% of the match. But a perk with that pick rate, usually would have gotten a harsh treatment. Not a slight nerf, that allows it to keep the full potential, while also allowing it to combo with other high-tier perks.
0 -
Exhaustion limitation on top of having to put yourself in deep wound would be waaaaaay too restrictive and throw the perk straight into the garbage category so I think it was a necessity to remove the exhaustion part more than a buff.
2 -
Well, everyone is behaving like they did exactly that. As if the devs nerfed it into oblivion like Ruin. But MfT is still top tier.
0 -
Not a slight nerf, that allows it to keep the full potential, while also allowing it to combo with other high-tier perks.Okay, at least you've gotten to slight nerf, but let's look at the rest of the scenarios and why they aren't practical. I'll start with general gameplay then move onto tunneling scenarios.
Because you had to choose between MfT or SB/Lithe/Background player. Each one is a strong perk. Just like MfT. You will be able to combine 2 Strong perks and have both advantages. Sure, not 100% of the match.We're not even close to 100%, I imagine we're much closer to zero present.
Let's take sprint burst.
Scenario 1: killer comes, survivor uses sprint burst to get away, to get any value out of MFT they now need to get a heal in, while injured, the killer to hit them and not the other survivor, within ten seconds (which should work at most once).
Scenario 2: While injured, pull off a heal, get hit by a killer within 10 seconds, you now get one massive sprint burst and then have MFT. Of course, being you just ran all the way across the map, the killer might just follow the other survivor you healed, meaning you have to mend and lose MFT.
These aren't just realistic. To get to these conditions you have to A) already be injured B) find a teammate to heal C) be right in the exact window of having enough time to heal the other survivor, but still be within ten seconds of a killer. Then hypothetically you could put together a Sprint Burst and a MFT.
Though if we're imagining that players have such amazing timing, they already could do this. Run MFT and Lithe, use MFT to the maximum value you can, then pop Lithe. While I doubt anyone could pull that off regularly, it's more realistic than the above.
Survivors will either trigger it by body blocking or by using OtR.So this only works in a 'I'm being tunneled' scenario. Which means you only get possible value on two hooks stages instead of three and if the killer doesn't tunnel you (or they just wait out the ten seconds if no OTR) the perk has gone from getting constant value to none. If you're not being tunneled, no value.
Even if you pull it off, we're now talking running 75% of the perks around this one scenario, just so on two potential chases you get MFT with the potential of still throwing in a Lithe. Except, right now if you ran OTR and MFT, you get the MFT before and after the hit, meaning the value you potentially get from a Lithe you already get right now without having to use an additional perk slot.
-
People will go back to running the other exhaustion perks, absolutely, but they aren't going to be pairing them with MFT. SB and Background Player make no sense, Lithe potentially could get some value but requires specific circumstances and even then is still weaker than what survivors have right now. We might see some DH/MFT users, but again its a weaker version of what DH/MFT exists right now.
This isn't just a nerf, it's a massive nerf.
5 -
So mft now will only activate 5% of the time unless I spec half my build at minimum.
And I can't even lose a 50/50 for value?
Nice.
2 -
Okay, I use the same build: old MFT, OTR, DH, DS. And lets see what should I do to get the perk value.
After the first hit: it works.
Whats the requirements to get value of the new MFT again? Can you re-type it again without copying the paragraph?
Yep the paragraph is definitely longer, its a nerf.
6 -
Circle of healing is currently well make it with an investment of searching, at least 14 seconds of setup time, and travel time when you go to actually use it. It can also be completely turned off, forcing the travel and setup again.
We'll make it is usable immediately, has no setup, and is activated by doing literally nothing different during the game.
Circle is just we'll make it with extra steps, and those extra steps make it terrible.
Since people like nightlight as a reference, circle is at a 2.58% pick rate, which is below alert (3.12%) and is barely above a literal empty perk slot (2.41%). I think that last one says enough.
4 -
Ruin, in fact, was a buff.
3 -
Pretty sure they are referring to the change that reduced Ruin from 200% to 100% regression and deactivate once you kill someone. That was a massive nerf.
These MfT changes also are absolutely a nerf. Yes it still has synergy with Dead Hard and other Exhaustion perks but it’s still going to be no where near as good as it is right now. It’s a massive nerf, and rightfully so. The perk needed a massive nerf. It will still be decent but it wont be the entire meta anymore.
1 -
I never use MFT, I never defend MFT, I dont mind of MFT nerf.
Its just their logic to convince MFT nerf is a buff is something beyond this world. It made me think of reasons why Ruin nerf was actually a buff, by using the same logic.
6 -
We'll Make It also requires someone on your team losing a hook state, you being the one to unhook them, and is on a timer before it deactivates and those requirements come up again. By contrast, Circle is something you can set up immediately as long as you know where a totem is, remains up until it's snuffed, and can be used by your entire team rather than just yourself.
Its requirements (not extra steps, requirements) make it a sidegrade to WMI. More consistent, more available, but with a bit more time investment to balance it.
Circle isn't terrible. Circle is exceptionally strong in SWF, and moderately strong in solo queue.
I've said before that I don't care about pickrate. As you say here, even assuming Nightlight's stats are correct (which is a pretty hefty assumption), you've got two strong perks at a low pickrate there, comparable to having an empty perk slot. Clearly, the playerbase as a whole has some odd opinions about what counts as a good perk.
1 -
Another trash update hell bent on ruining this game. Exactly what I've come to expect from this company.
3 -
Ah fair enough. I misunderstood your comment sorry. I agree with you in that case.
2 -
Your very words were "Lethal Pursuer and Corrupt are another 2 with no requirements so chuck them in too I guess."
I responded to that.
0 -
By this argument, gift of pain is equally strong as the meta perk sloppy butcher.
Sloppy requires you to win a chase, take a health state, and use a basic attack at least once in that chase.
Gift of pain applies the same debuffs, but also requires you to go to a very specific place and go out of your way, which is entirely based on RNG to do the same thing.
Saying these are identical at all seems ridiculous, and this is the exact same thing as circle/WMI, just for killer.
2 -
...No, not even a little bit?
Sloppy just requires you to M1, Gift of Pain requires both a down and a specific hook. That's not equivalent to the comparisons being made between WMI and Circle.
The two perks here also aren't even comparable directly. Sloppy is used primarily to apply Mangled, GoP is used partially to apply Mangled, as it has a secondary effect to compensate for being a Scourge Hook.
Someone being hooked and you being the one to unhook them are real requirements that actually matter. Trying to separate Sloppy's single activation requirement out into three just to try and sound similar in progression doesn't actually work because it's still just the one thing that actually matters: Basic attack the survivor. Circle and WMI also do the same exact thing in different ways, which GoP and Sloppy don't. This is a very weird comparison.
1 -
I hope this is a joke
1 -
Nerf legion (how can we survive from his frenzy instincts in short maps )
0 -
I find this hilarious as you are without fault always replying to people when there are patches that dunk on killer and give nothing for them or give absolutelly useless stuff and buff survivors, "every patch does need to give both sides things" but you say this now. I get it is dumb that this patch only gives things for killer but your reaction to it being the complete opposite of what you reply is amazing.
3 -
My general opinion is that it is not needed that Side A gets compensated when Side B gets something. Or that Side A needs to lose something when it gains something.
But the thing is, that this is a completely one-sided patch. This is my main problem here. And I dont think this happened before.
5 -
Ironic, i have the same opinion on MfT. I don´t use it (anymore). I don´t care if someone uses it. I never asked for a nerf. I just pointed out how its not a useless perk (as some people here claim) and that the removal of the exhausted status opens up new combos that were previously not possible. Which i see as actual buffs. Nerf and buff in the same patch.
Like when BT was nerfed in the way, that it didn´t protect the unhooker anymore, but at the same time it got buffed to be used more than once and that it wasn´t dependant on the killers terror radius. A nerfbuff.
Or how Undying lost the 4 times revival chance, but got stacks that don´t vanish on cleansing instead. Also a nerfbuff.
I fully expect that the PTB brings up footage of streamers using MfT with the new combos. Showing us how strong the new version actually is and that MfT in fact is still meta.
0 -
Oh wow. They just completely gut the perk!? I figured they would tweak it but this???? This completely destroyed it.
Any time a perk becomes situational like this it immediately becomes obsolete. Nobody wants to take up a perk slot at the off chance something very specific happens. What kind of payout is that,
The fack you have to be in deep wound to have the 3% deletes this perk. It's rare to go into deep wound while already injured.
What's the point of taking all this time to create a perk, implement the thing, just to gut it, make it situational, and re-release it and Nobody use it?
How many times have we seen this happen? It's counter productive. It serves no purpose other than frustrating the players and accidentally rewarding opposite side.
This is disappointing. Seems like every time I find a perk I enjoy using it gets stripped down and I always revert back to the same 5 meta perks on either side.
This right here is why only 5% of perks are used on either side.
2
