The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Why dont BHVR create new universal perks,and useful ones that is

Travis_Bateman
Travis_Bateman Member Posts: 279
edited November 2023 in Feedback and Suggestions

It would be way easier for new players to get some good perks from he start and not need to grind their ass off to get iri shards or being forced to spend real money on the game. Also i made this thread after Otz newest video about the return of Stranger Things. What do you think ?

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • Avo
    Avo Member Posts: 190

    No need for more universal perks, why? Because The universal perks available are nice, and unlocking them all on new characters is a waste of bloodpoints. Secondly, currently Meg's perk layout is god tier. All you had to do is, Level-up Meg then Bill. So you can use, Resilience, Unbreakable, Adrenaline and Sprintburst, maybe Hope instead sprintburst. So at the moment, you can play with these perks nicely

  • I actually like unlocking universal perks in my bloodweb, especially on survivor since I don't have a main. It gives me a joy idk why.

    Also all the perks you mentioned are chase perks, which yeah new survivors will have to learn how to loop. I would recommend Deja Vu, and Prove Thyself aswell.

    To answer your question. It is more profitable to have players buy survivors for there perks, instead of "having some perks be free".

  • Or maybe because the last universal perk to be released (shattered hope) was preceived negatively.

    Rightfully so though because it's a dogshit perk

  • UnusedAccount
    UnusedAccount Member Posts: 130

    Shattered Hope 2.0

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525
    edited November 2023

    That's because shattered hope should have always been basekit, then they could have actually made boons useful outside of the healing one that they have since made at less useful (still viable but heavily overshadowed by other perks these days). And actually make them a "survivor hex perk" high risk, high reward.


    Except now we are stuck with either, survivor perks that are way too OP (old COH). Or ones that are completely useless (dark theory)

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006

    What Otz said about WoO is right. There's too many maps to learn. Unless you are a veteran player, you're gonna need WoO just to have some idea of where anything is. Just make Kate and Clown part of the base roster. WoO would massively benefit new survivors and the Clown isn't exactly popular, or new.

    I know people feel like WoO makes survivors worse players, but most people aren't going to play past a couple hundred hours, so who cares. Let them have something to ease the growing pains.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,999

    certain teachables should be turned into general perks if you ask me

    One example I can give is visionary

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675

    I would not actually mind this, the last one we got was literally shattered hope which even when boons were at their peak no one ran.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,886

    It would be a great thing to do, but then new players wouldn't feel pressured to pay BHVR money to get better perks, so it's not going to happen.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 4,239

    Kate can be unlocked with shards. No money needs to be thrown at the game.

  • ARTRA
    ARTRA Member Posts: 938

    At least basic characters have good perks.

    Like Meg/Dwight have decent or very good perks. But jake its in a weird position.

    Same as killer, Huntress and Wraith have 6 of the worst perks like ever. At least not awfull perks could be nice.


    In short, if we dont have more basic general perks AT LEAST basic characters have 2 to 3 decent/good perks.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    I suppose it is fine for new players aswell to learn the maps, but you were refering to veterans who know the maps.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 4,239

    Thats my point. The perk is mainly used to NOT learn maps.

    From what i have seen and experienced myself, the perk is used in 3 ways:

    • Learn maps
    • Know which pallets are already used or not used
    • Automatize survivor gameplay in regards to chases ( just run to yellow )

    Personally, im fine with the first 2. Sadly i feel like the 3rd is the most common usage out of the 3. Please prove me wrong!

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006

    If BHVR wants to give new survivors access to perks that can help them learn the game, WoO is a great choice. The perk is also great for solo queue players who lack communication. In my view, new players having access to Kate straight away would do more good than harm. It's not like learning map layouts is getting easier for new players. It only gets harder as time passes.

    I know that, but new players still have to grind for it. Not to mention that many new players don't watch content creators, so may not even be aware that the perk exists. I watched a bunch of survivor gameplay before I tried the game, and I never saw the perk. So I didn't know it existed until about a year after I had started playing.

    I know you are not a fan of WoO, due to the impact it has on matches. But it's already popular. Why not just give it to the players who need it the most? I'd rather have a bunch of new survivors sticking around on autopilot, rather than them getting downed after ten seconds in chase every match and just giving up.

  • Travis_Bateman
    Travis_Bateman Member Posts: 279

    I dont know if a beginner survivor should use WoO,if they want to learn.

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006

    I'm just being realistic here. It would be better for everyone to learn the maps organically, sure. But with like 50 variants, how are the majority of casual players going to learn the maps? Most players will never put in enough time to learn the maps properly, so having a universal perk like WoO would help them out greatly.

  • For me personally, I don't like using WoO because it's a crutch imo. I don't use WoO to "not learn maps", I don't use it so I learn to think on my feet on how I can connect loops and pallets.

    In some matches I literally find a gen, run around for 15 seconds looking at the tiles, and when I'm on the gen I think of escape plans.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    There's already a decent amount of universal perks, and some of them are pretty decent. However, they want people to have an incentive to buy new characters and unlock their perks so that's where the focus is always going to be.

    If they ever add a new mechanic or type of perk and they want an accessable counter to it, they may add a new one, like what they did with Shattered Hope (which sucks at countering boons but whatever)

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006

    Whilst it's great for you to take a sense of pride and accomplishment in your gaming skills, most players are not putting in the time needed to learn because they don't want to spend hundred's of hours playing one game. Most games have decent learning tools or are simple to get into. Dead by Daylight is neither of those things. Seeing as neither of those problems are likely to ever get addressed, having a perk like WoO would be be great for many new players.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,821

    There's enough perks as a survivor that you can be viable from the start. That's "good enough".

    While the grind can be annoying, it also is a reason that the game keeps a player base. Having perks locked behind either pay or grind means either BHVR gets paid or people stay in the game and play to unlock things. In the latter case, it gives a sense of reward to finally earn something. I grinded out all of the survivors I could purchase with shards (waited until half off sales) and it felt more meaningful to finally have access to certain things. If I'd just had it from the very beginning it probably wouldn't have meant as much.

    It's all a psychological trick to feel like my playing a video game has actually accomplished something, but that's a lot of what video games are.

    Add to this that stacking boon perks was a bad idea. It was always going to be impossible to make a perk like dark theory valid if you had to imagine it could be used on its own or in conjunction with 3 other perks. The end design of boons was that there was one major boon that it would be very foolish not to run if you were doing boons (circle of healing) and 3 other minor boons that gave minimal benefits and you might or might not run on top of it (this is a balancable design, but its not the way BHVR approaches the game).

    I don't know how you differentiate between 2 and 3. Knowing whether a pallet is present or not is the main reason to run to an area.

    -

    I think both supporters and opponents of WoO get something wrong about the perk. It's not a memorization or a skill issue per se, though those can be linked. Even if you memorize every map while in a chase your brain has to run through that information to figure out the best path. That might only be a fraction of a second, but its those small differences in time that determine whether the survivor makes a pallet or not (and it introduces the possibility of mistakes).

    Windows skips that process, allowing even an incredibly experienced survivor to path faster than they would have without it.

    I don't really have an opinion on whether it is too strong or not. I rarely run it because I feel it ruins the immersion of being a survivor which is a totally different issue (it's also makes the map ugly).

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    survivor doesn't have an issue with that, almost the entire survivor meta revolves around general perks or ones from free characters. killer currently only has sloppy and noed and bitter murmur to some degree. free killers' perks are absolute trash too except agi brutal and enduring.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 4,239

    Knowing the layout of a main budding with all its windows is not part of learning maps?

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,128

    I don’t see an issue with giving Survivors free Kate. As long as they don’t complain about pallet density being insufficient on some maps because one person dropped 5 pallets in their first chase.

    While tools to improve the gamplay experience for newcomers should be given, mistakes should still be punished and not be made less impactful on the match outcome

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 290


    Nightlight is primarily used by mid to high MMR players. I doubt most new players even know what Nightlight is, let alone use it to keep track of their performance. So we're absolutely going to see meta builds be the most popular ones on Nightlight, and cannot use it to interpolate what low MMR players are using because they're excluded from the site's dataset.

    By inferring that the entire playerbase uses Nightlight equally and then also presuming that because of the presence of MFT and Lithe (given every other perk on that list is relatively easy to acquire) that the only people using Windows are mid-to-high MMR, you're presenting an incomplete view of the picture and presenting it as a complete view - an easy mistake to make, sure, but one that needs to be addressed when it does show.

    Finally, please don't be rude. We all want the same thing here - for the game to be the best it can be, so there's no need for hostility.

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 290
    edited November 2023

    This conversation has gone in-depth on Survivor Universal Perks (mostly an argument about Windows of Opportunity), but nobody's brought up Killer Universal Perks, even a little bit.

    When Stranger Things' perks go back to their characters, there will be no Universal Perk that grants generator slowdown, as Surge will be locked behind Auric Cells (or the Shrine of Secrets, for one week every year or so presuming every perk gets a round in the shrine once).

    It's no secret that slowdown is the strongest asset a killer can bring into their game. Just making a game last that tiny bit longer than it would without can make a huge difference, and with Surge especially chases that end up too close to gens can give the killer significant enough pressure to win the game.

    If nothing else, we desperately need to have at least one okay slowdown perk be Universal, given your best Iri Shard option right now would be to purchase Clown for Pop Goes The Weasel (other options include Artist for Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance and Plague for Corrupt Intervention).

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,821

    I'm responding to the below quote.

    • Learn maps
    • Know which pallets are already used or not used
    • Automatize survivor gameplay in regards to chases ( just run to yellow )

    Personally, im fine with the first 2. Sadly i feel like the 3rd is the most common usage out of the 3. Please prove me wrong!

    You say you are okay with the first two, but I don't see how you draw a difference between 'know which pallets are already used or not' and 'automatize survivor gameplay' because knowing whether a pallet is used or not is the thing that allows a survivor to automatize what they do.

  • UnusedAccount
    UnusedAccount Member Posts: 130

    So you're saying usage rate for WoO would be even higher considering its 34% for Mid-High.

    A teachable perk is used 1/4 by mid-high Survivors for NO particular reason.

  • TrueGuardian32
    TrueGuardian32 Member Posts: 134

    I think some more fun perks should be made universal. Things with a bit more fun based instead of objective based to get new player more hooked into the game. Objective Based Perks are mostly useful after you get hooked. Not at the start.

  • Bran
    Bran Member Posts: 2,096
    edited November 2023

    Well...I say this about pretty much any game. It wouldn't be very money earney. Plus, they probably keep them for survivor dlc. To make you pay more.

  • Avo
    Avo Member Posts: 190

    You have a lot of them and they are cool, and let me remind you that Surge (Jolt) is the most used killer perk at the moment

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    Jolt is going to stop being universal perk, because of Stranger things return...

    So, not really. Most universal perks are just bad except like 3, issue is they are killer specific, they are not good for any killer.

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 290

    Every perk in a survivor's build is for a reason - in the case of Windows, it has benefits when it comes to eliminating map RNG guesswork and also knowing what pallets have been thrown by teammates.

    And i'm not saying anything about WoO's usage rate. I have no idea what the true value is.

  • MarylinMonhoe
    MarylinMonhoe Member Posts: 132

    What would it be? I feel like we got every possibility with the current boons, what could be new to that?

    Maybe hiding the sound or the progress of gens which are currently under repair inside the area?

    nevermind seems too OP