How do you think the devs should handle the issue of tunneling?
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the only way dev will ever fix tunneling is doing that change they did to devour hope on that ptb base-kit unbreakable. Make it so that all hook are shared between entire team up to 6 hook-states. On the 7th hook, the next person to get hooked is instantly killed. This makes so that killer have to go for 10 hook games to kill everyone.
I know it is unlikely to ever happen so tunneling will always be part of the game.
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5 second DS Stun should be brought back
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Buff DS back to 5s stun duration. DS lasts infinitely after being unhooked and can be used once per hook state but still deactivates upon performing a conspicious action, and deactivates when the gates are powered.
Revert the CoB and Ruin nerfs to make kicking gens feel worthwhile again. Revert Pain Res to its original state, but survivors won't scream when the gen explodes and it only applies once per survivor. This prevents it from synergising with DMS and from being too oppressive as the match progresses.
This gives killers incentive to avoid tunneling, slows down gens, makes DS useful again, makes gen regression perks useful again, and overall is healthier for the game.
If Ruin becomes too oppressive, it can have its effect weaken as the trial progresses rather than outright disabling it when a survivor dies. Hex perks should be strong. If they aren't strong, like Third Seal, good survivors will simply ignore the Hex and just remain glued to gens.
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Solution is quite simple. Survivor off hook gets +5% haste effect for next 60s or until gen is touched by the survivor or other survivor is hooked. It will encourage killers go for different survivors instead of just waiting out and go for easy prey off hook.
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This is not the answer. Haste is extremely powerful, and as we've seen with MFT, needs to have equally strong downsides. It also only hurts M1 killers, but will do nothing to stop Billy, Huntress, Spirit, Nurse, Blight, Wesker, etc.
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And the MMR adjustment
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Ok, so hook grabs were removed
We got Basekit BT.
Anti-Facecamp mechanic.
Anti 3 gen mechanic is coming.
And now you also want something against tunneling? Not any of the anti tunnel perks we already have, but something basekit?
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Starting with the gap between surv solo and comms and buff killers around is a good start but surv who do their objective not the ones goofing around
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This is a viable tactic. You're chasing one, other one comes and takes a protection hit and gets downed. Third person comes to heal that who took the protection hit while killer is chasing the first survivor.
That's three, THREE survivors not doing gens.
Just sit on gens if you see someone being tunnelled and/or camped on hook. You're just throwing your own game if you try to go for a save. And the killer also is throwing their own game if they do it on beginning. Heck, if the survivor getting tunnelled is good looper, worst case scenario is that you also ruin their game, too.
Is that annoying playstyle? Yes. Does it needed to be addressed/nerfed? No
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they shouldnt. the way the game is currently balanced youll have a high chance of loosing if you dont tunnel. more and more killers are just realizing this.
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I think that kinda mechanic killed survivor-survivor interaction in Deathgarden, which made them rush the objectives even more.
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if we were going to do something to ‘stop tunneling’ then I’d personally prefer something besides forced compliance by game mechanic or anti-tunneling perk buffs.
Give more INCENTIVES to not tunnel.
if ‘not tunneling’ isn’t the Killers choice but a punishment for trying to tunnel or a game mechanics forcing the inability to tunnel, then the Killer players are going to hate it.
like if an orb was RNG on to the map every time I hooked a different survivor, after another was unhooked (and only one orb per unhook), then when retrieving orb did something helpful for Killer…be that Gen regression, speed boost, or aura reading then the Killer would have Purpose and Reason to not tunnel immediately because they would benefit.
adjust to not make over-power and orbs have to be retrieved which wastes killer time and attention.
orbs on map has been done before, proposed orb functions are not new and survivors have been dealing with it already, gives Killer momentum for building pressure which could/should be equal or better then tunneling one person out. Just a very basic idea but you get the direction I’m going with. Not everything has to be a punishment, try rewarding the behavior you want to create or be used instead.
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no, that punishes killer for doing his objection. Like, if someone intentionally bites killer by constantly flashlighting, spamming loud actions, bodyblocking etc...? Killer hooks him-other survivors the bonuses and toxic person is the winning one. Amazing. You should reward killer for not tunneling, but punishing just means survivors will abuse it hard.
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Rewarding the killer for not tunneling isn't going to make them not tunnel. You need both the carrot and the stick. Without the stick, there's no reason to take the carrot.
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How about that?
1) The Video is recent and the streak is still going.
2) He is a casual gamer.
3) Pig is arguable one of the weakest killer.
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Yeah basically i dont give a poop about the points or ranks i just want em all dead.If you wish me not to tunnel make me feel powerful
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Reinstate decisive strike to it's full 5 seconds stun.
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it will. When better option appears, it replaces older worse option, even if the latter doesnt change at all. If dev give something that grants same amount of advantage as tunneling, without disrupting other people gameplay (and main problem of tunneling doesnt that it gives too much advantage to killer, but that it gives extremely negative experience to tunelled person, especially if he is lower skill then the killer), most people will use it.
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It won't. Tunneling makes the game easier. It may not be fun for the person on the receiving end, but it is the most efficient way to play the game.
The only way to have killers not tunnel via a reward system would be to have something that is equal to the value of permanent slowdown. There is no possible reward that could be equal to that value while also being balanced.
If you reward the killer for not tunneling with generator slowdown, survivors will quit en masse. But if you punish the killer for tunneling with faster gen progression, killers will quit en masse.
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I disagree, im getting tunneled a lot more now, than i used to be when gen timers were slower.
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Was this a video of you getting 500 wins in a row as killer? If not, I'd love to see you post some of your game play so that all of us with a "skill issue" can learn to be a god-level killer like you.
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If that were added to the suggestion, then yes, then the idea could be good.
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CM is not a casual gamer lol, he does this for a living, hes streaming pig every night.
Also CM is the number 1 pig player.
(this is taken from hes twitch)
The #1 Pig in DbD, Twitch partner+, achievement hunter, 6x world record holder.
I have broken 6 world records on Pig, including: highest win streak of 166, first prestige 100 and most placed RBTs at 48,000+
If i went to a shooting range and kept practicing the worst rifle they had for years, i would eventually be really good with that rifle, even better than people shooting the good rifles.
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I play each side about 50/50 and I know how much it sucks to get tunneled. I also know how difficult it is to get even one kill without tunneling against efficient, coordinated teams. so I understand why killers do it. Even 2-man SWF or good solo q teams can coordinate pretty effectively with the HUD info that survivors get now. Survivors have already gotten basekit tools to make tunneling much more difficult. Some players won't be happy unless they escape 95% of their matches and the killer has to get 12 hooks for a win. The devs are smart enough to understand that making these players happy means no more killer players.
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I think tunneling still needs to be addressed, but further basekit changes aren't the way to go. I think buffing DS in exchange for buffing some of the regression perks would go a long way to reducing the likelihood that a survivor will be tunneled for efficiency's sake.
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Gen timers were only extended though.
What actually happened is that survivors went from a full loadout of anti-camp/tunnel/slug stuff to genrush stuff, because BT became basekit, DS was butchered, and UB lost half its value due to no longer pairing with DS, freeing up three perk slots.
Tunnelling got a colossal buff, that's why the issue got worse.
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they just bring pop & pain res each game now
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Maybe it’s you.
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Throw in that the only Boon perk worth anything was thoroughly removed from the game and healing was severely weakened. Survivors literally have no reason to prioritize anything other than gens. Gens aren’t faster; survivors just aren’t ######### around with nonessential gameplay elements anymore.
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Yeah, but boons did allow them to heal a bit faster sometimes, so it's fair that it gets absolutely nuked from orbit. Can't have survivor perks do things that benefit the survivors!
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I got so sick of being tunneled, I went for from full vers to top... I mean killer
Playing dbd ahs never been so good for me
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This is an idea I've played around with. Even if it is just a way that Survivors who die early can signal and 'emote' to other Survivors where to go and what to do and when to run for it or whatever. DBD has a perfect opportunity to introduce a mechanic where Survivors who die very quickly still have a way to interact with the team at the very least. Maybe even give buffs or something.
There are plenty of things they could do. Being tunneled out early is one of the worst feelings in any game I've ever played unfortunately so doing anything to mitigate that feeling would be more than welcome.
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I remember before boons were a thing so many people were asking for survivors to receive like extra quests. I guess what they meant was they wanted survivors to do things that wasted time (passive slowdown for the killer basically) at no benefit to the survivors. Like rummaging through empty chests or something. They definitely didn’t want boons.
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it could also be the other way around?
self insight is a healthy trait
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Yeah, but there was also implemented a lot of gen rush perks, so they had to add another 10 secs. Otz have made a video on this, that proves that with the added gen time, the gen times are actually worse.
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We haven’t received a gen progression perk since gen times were extended. The gen perks survivors use now are years old.
That’s true. But I’ve played for years and noticed no changes in the frequency of tunneling. It’s always been a prevalent strategy—more so than camping or slugging. That’s my insight.
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like they always did, ignore it because it's just salty nonsense.
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The only new 'genrush perk' that really saw any traction, though, was Hyperfocus. Outside of that, it's just perks being freed up due to anti-tunnel/anti-camp/anti-slug getting gutted.
And even then, I'm pretty sure gen times are still considerably longer than they used to be.
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Let them waste their time doing that instead of generators? The system would only punish killers tunneling at five gens, not tunneling in general.
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survivors already rush objective. the old system of hooking would still be present in the game. it would just be called "slugging" with bleed out timers. so you could still "tunnel" slugs and "camp slugs" similar to current hook system with hook regression, tunneling off-hook and proxy camping hooks.
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This is something that merits discussion, actually. Something the player base, in general, seems to forget is that there are consequences to changes.
Self-care was nerfed before CoH got nuked from orbit, and then medkits got nerfed too. Boons didn't really work out as a concept since they were either too powerful (CoH) or too niche (Dark Theory).
There really is absolutely no reason anymore for Survivors to do anything other than gens, and it's as a result of those changes.
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If your playstyle are obnoxious towards the killer, there is a good chance you have been tunneled all the time, but then you are asking for it. (for example constantly tbagging the killer). And that would explain why you havent noticed an increase in tunneling. I did a forum seach for you, that confirms my claim - https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/search?domain=all_content&query=tunneling&scope=site&source=community
As for your other claim, perks were added and changed, i am not gonna wate my time listing every perk, but here is a video with some of it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8O8CGNfeQc
This might also be worth watching :
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instead of spamming it, ill refer to the latest video in this post : https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592247/#Comment_3592247
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The problem is how out of control 4 survivors can be, especially good ones. Look at why killers do it and fix that, instead of all these basekit skills.
Go try get 12 hooks at high mmr.
You can fix it technically by making DS have a 30 second stun.
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Same as they handle gen rush, gen tunneling etc. They should do nothing. If either side wants to be effective then players must have that option. As soon as you restrict players more this game will lose lot's of players.
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Okay, that doesn't change anything. Gens are still slower than they used to be. The only thing that video references that is new in any way is Hyperfocus.
Unless the survivors are using Hyperfocus, they are taking longer than they used to.
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I don't really think tunneling can be fixed unfortunately.
There are way too many random elements that go into a match of DBD that trying to fix it would end up restricting both sides.
It's unfortunate because it genuinely is a detriment to retaining new players being introduce to dbd by their friends.
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That's terrible idea. This will stomp solo teams even more. All killer will need to keep hook weak line.
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Lets just agree to disagree on this.
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Everyone basically knows at this point that the MMR System values fast queue times far more than you accurately getting matched with people of your rank.
So just because killers are in matches where they are completely outclassed it doesnt mean that they "camped and tunneled" their way to that skill level. Most times its probably just that mmr didnt find a fitting killer for that level and just filled with whoever was queueing.
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