⭐HILLBILLY-REWORK⭐
PLEASE COMMENT AND ENGAGE IN THE DISCUSSION, AS IT WILL KEEP THIS THREAD VIEWED AND RELEVANT!
-Remove the overheat mechanic entirely.
- It is very unfun, for both sides. Its removal will make way for new, fun addons.
-While chainsaw dashing, increase FOV by 20%. Stacks with FOV perks.
- Makes you feel like a bullet-train, which is a really fun and exhilarating feeling.
-Once per chainsaw dash, pressing M1 will increase the turning rate by 5x for ⅕ of a second (0.2s), allowing for a singular, very sharp turn. Immediately after pressing M1, your FOV decreases back to normal, a sound que is played and the chainsaw will only be able to injure healthy survivors for the rest of the dash, but will still down injured survivors.
- This feature is most useful against injured survivors, healthy survivors on very tricky loops and when avoiding crashing when traversing confined parts of the map. The primary intention of this feature is to incentivise survivors to heal, since at present, many would rather remain injured against the Hillbilly, seeing as he has the ability to insta-down. An iridescent add-on will apply deep-wounds to healthy survivors.
-Decrease the sound of the chainsaw from the perspective of the Hillbilly by 50% of what it currently is.
- Currently can't hear gens, can't hear survivors and it makes your ears bleed, which is inherently unenjoyable.
-Make the Hillbilly 20% larger.
- Makes him more visually intimidating and scary. Also, his increased chainsaw dash FOV in addition to this slight increase in height will provide him more information and visual clarity when scouring the map for snipes. It will also make make window hits look cleaner. It might make him easier to see, but the intimidation factor is worth it, seeing as it is a horror-game.
-Decrease the size and shape of his chainsaw hitbox.
- A lot of the time it bumps when it feels like it shouldn't. It also sometimes feels like it gets hits when it shouldn't. It is frustrating on both sides.
-Pretty much rework every single add-on.
- Most are neither effective nor fun, which hinders replayability and enjoyability.
-Adjust base-stats accordingly via trial and error in player testing.
Comments
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"-Remove the overheat mechanic entirely."
Yeah, it can be removed at this point. During its introduction, I thought it was good that it was added. But it was probably enough to remove Cooldown-Add ons and remove viable Chargtime-Add On. Because back then Hillbilly was too forgiving.
And since its introduction, the Overheat-Mechanic was nerfed a lot, it is barely impactful. You basically have to try to Overheat.
"-While chainsaw dashing, increase FOV by 20%. Stacks with FOV perks."
I really dont know about this one. For me, I also need the FoV when playing him normally or when revving, because otherwise his FoV is really awkward. But I also use the Chainsaw A LOT, so I think it will be really unpleasant to play him with constant FoV-Changes happening whenever you use the Chainsaw.
"-Once per chainsaw dash, pressing M1 will increase the turning rate by 5x for ⅕ of a second (0.2s), allowing for a singular, very sharp turn. Immediately after pressing M1, your FOV decreases back to normal, a sound que is played and the chainsaw will only be able to injure healthy survivors for the rest of the dash, but will still down injured survivors."
I dont really understand this. This sounds like an easier way to curve, but with less benefit. E.g. you can press 1 to curve in an easier way, but dont get an Instadown. If this is the case, I would be against it. But as I said, I dont fully understand the suggestion.
"-Decrease the sound of the chainsaw from the perspective of the Hillbilly by 50% of what it currently is."
Yep, agreed. It is painfully loud.
"-Make the Hillbilly 20% larger."
Meh. I dont care to be honest, but would lean against it.
"-Decrease the size and shape of his chainsaw hitbox."
Yes. I feel that his Hitbox is enormous and it makes maneuvering around some reworked maps challenging, because you can get stuck on the smallest twigs.
"-Pretty much rework every single add-on."
Agreed. BUT - I dont really know what to give him. IMO he should not have any Chargetime- or Cooldown-Add Ons. And if we look at this, there are not many stats which can be improved. And I dont want boring Add Ons like "Chainsaw Hits inflect Mangled/Blindness/Oblivious/Hindered/Hemorrhage" or similar things.
I feel that Hillbilly being one of the more simple designed Killers (simple designed, not simple to play) only has limited room for Add Ons. Especially if they should not increase Chargetime or Cooldown. (The last part is totally my opinion, but I think that things like Instasaw and the fast recovery after missing made him really a bit too good back then)
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Let's be honest. They reworked hillbilly because survivors complained about him. Simple.
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BHVR stopped caring about fun, that’s why we got MMR. I support your efforts but if Freddy taught me anything, it’s that BHVR always double downs on terrible Killer changes. If your not careful they might add a new mechanic where Hillbilly occasionally trips while chainsawing, just saying~
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I really appreciate the thought and detail you put in your response! Here are my thoughts on them:
- I agree with you that the FOV changes could be disorienting and that it shouldn't be implemented. A FOV-related addon might be interesting as it would be optional to use.
- The new ability acts as a secondary curve, performed after the primary curve. The idea is that it incentivises chainsaw-use against injured survivors who refuse to heal, without it being oppressive to healthy survivors! It also massively increases the skill-ceiling of the killer and provides chainsaw-oriented counter-play in anti-chainsaw loops, which happen to be most loops in this game. To help visualise it: With this ability, you could curve in a Z-shape if you wished to.
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Maybe they just need some help with good suggestions from experienced players? I'm sure they're doing their best.
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People were complaining about Nurse and Spirit but never Hillbilly. The rework was out of nowhere and I don't really recall anybody asking for it. It was so out of nowhere and the backlash from it was insane, but they still followed through for some weird reason :/ biggest tragedy in DBD history imo
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I don't think we need to deal with FOV because devs anounced that they will add FOV slider to the game for the killers soon.
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They were. Back in the days, Twitter were full of Hillbilly complaints and so it was on Reddit and Dead by Daylight official forums.
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That's a shame. Billy was the most fun killer to play against so why complain about him. Guess they got what they wished for :/
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It happened with Freddy Krueger now look at him. This happened with Spirit now look at her.
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You're correct. They threw 'Fun' out of the window and now are trying to make a competitive scene only for it to backfire hard.
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-Remove the overheat mechanic entirely.
Yes, please. It barely exists anyway and it only holds back Driftking Billy, although it would only work on a handful of maps anyway.
-While chainsaw dashing, increase FOV by 20%. Stacks with FOV perks.
With the introduction of a FOV slider this becomes unnecessary. Although, I would like to play him without the chainsaw less than 0.2 inches away from my face. Bring back the old animations and allow people to actually see what's right in front of them.
-Once per chainsaw dash, pressing M1 will increase the turning rate by 5x for ⅕ of a second (0.2s), allowing for a singular, very sharp turn. Immediately after pressing M1, your FOV decreases back to normal, a sound que is played and the chainsaw will only be able to injure healthy survivors for the rest of the dash, but will still down injured survivors.
Sounds interesting but what exactly do you mean by "increase the turning rate by 5x for ⅕ of a second (0.2s)"? Because if this number is taken from the base turn rate of the chainsaw than you'd only get a 32° turn in that time, which is better than nothing but I struggle to come up with a situation that would make this useful. Other than map mobility. But that is an issue that should be fixed by map reworks and not an extra mechanic, that will barely help with this issue.
-Decrease the sound of the chainsaw from the perspective of the Hillbilly by 50% of what it currently is.
I know what you mean. It's one of the reasons I play DBD on a comparatively low volume. Because if I don't, then the chainsaw is going to make deaf one of these days. But I'm not sure if 50% isn't a bit much. Make it 30% and let us test it on the PTB. Label it as quality of life improvements because that is what this comes down to.
-Make the Hillbilly 20% larger.
Bad idea. There are loops where you just barely can't be seen over and it would also look weird to see someone that tall glitch through the doorways on Lery's.
-Decrease the size and shape of his chainsaw hitbox.
Please, no! No, please! Don't make it worse! His hitbox isn't that big to begin with. It's one of the reasons he can be countered by the press of a single button that isn't even "E" (the other is the shape of his hitbox). If anything change the shape to remove that. But the hitbox of Hillbilly is really not that big to begin with, though it is a bit higher than necessary, which sometimes causes him to bump against the ceiling of some buildings or vegetation hanging from above. Pretty sure that's not what the devs had in mind.
-Pretty much rework every single add-on.
Yes. His addons are pretty pathetic. He has 3 genuinely good addons (LoPro Chains and both Engravings), 1 that's not bad but can lead to you relying on it (Heavy Clutch), which makes it a bit of a risky pick, a few very situational addons (Apex Muffler, Spiked Boots and Dad's Boots, Tuned Carburettor) and a bunch of useless and increadibly weak addons. I don't need any of the overheat addons. They are all completely worthless because you don't overheat anyway. I also don't know why I'd use 1 of my 2 addon slots for the Off-Brand Motor Oil, when it's only a little bit of a quality of life improvement that takes up space I'd need for a better addon. The Leafy Mash is one of these addons that genuinely have me thinking: "Why?" Why would anyone ever fall for that! They see where their team mate goes down! Is it really that hard to keep your eyes open for a few seconds, while you do gens? Black Grease is laughably bad and Mother's Helpers are kind of nice to have but don't really come in clutch. I mean, you already get stunned, which means the survivor is likely going to make distance to the next loop. In that case, the extra charge speed is useless because you can't counter Shift + W with it and when you get to the next loop, then you don't really need it. Because you need Doom Engravings or LoPros or better yet Doom Engravings and LoPros.
I would also like them to bring back the second flick (don't know, if it had a specific name), that they removed years before his rework. It basically allowed him to hit survivors right next to him by ending the chainsaw and turning immediately in their direction. This made countering him a bit harder than going 1 step to the left or right, which in my opinion is a good thing. It would also put an end to some survivors using his hitbox against him by bodyblocking him without any danger of getting hit. This can happen sometimes even today but it's incredibly inconsistent and more often than it helps you will lead to you bumping after the chainsaw has already ended.
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Billy with double charge and cool down add-ons was certainly NOT fun to go against. It was pretty much irrelevant if he missed you with the chainsaw, bc he would be ready to chainsaw 2s later again.
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Yeah so thats what people pretty much agreed should have changed. Just the addons. Like they are doing with blight now. But they decided to go the extra mile by making all his addons fairly bad. And adding this new mechanic and roar just burning resources on something that didnt need to happen.
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Everyone agreed that the insta-chainsaw add-ons needed to change, that's right. And yes, the addon reworks are pretty bad, but let me ask you: What pre-rework addons were worth running besides charge- / cooldown- / speed-addons back then? His other add-ons were bad already before, and with charge and cooldown- add-ons to be removed, there were bound to be more bad add-ons. As some other commenter in this thread put it, there's really not much you can do with billies add-ons, there are not many aspect of his power that can be safely adjusted by some numbers (add-ons are usually number-adjusments).
It was also agreed upon that a billy camping with a fully reved chainsaw is an issue (it was quite prevalent back then, when the killer player performed badly - sort of a budget version of bubba face camping). That's why the overheat was added (this and so chainsaw cannot be spammed). The thought process is actually not wrong there, but maybe the execution of the changes.
Many attribute the "butchering" of billies potential to the overheat mechanic, even when that mechanic does not even come into play for the majority of billy players (imo only curve billies are hindered by that). Many claim to this day that billy would be fun again when just the overheat was removed, but I cannot see how that should be true. Billy was fun and strong (for most casual billy players) because of the charge / cooldown- add-ons, and that add-ons will never come back.
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You're not wrong. But mind you, BHVR increased Billy's camping capabilities again when they changed the overheat earlier this year. I and many others explicitly warned them that this would happen. With the AFC that is not as big of an issue anymore but if we're not going to use the overheat to limit camping, then why are we using it at all?
Billy's main issue is the fact, that he wasn't designed for this game. He was designed for what this game used to be. With about 10 maps and sometimes very forgiving collisions and little clutter. Now there are more than 40 maps. 75% of them are awful for this killer and the remaining 25% are somewhat ok. Also, survivors have become a lot better than they were in 2016. Meaning, a curving Hillbilly will not quite get the same hits as back then. Especially without Engravings. It's not getting better when you factor in, that survivors can pre drop pallets and delay him long enough to finish the game that way. One more reason to use LoPros, I guess.
The overheat mechanic at this point does nothing other than to nerf Driftking Billy. You will never overheat by curving (and believe me, I tried). But his mobility was nerfed by that. Not that it makes a big difference, when you can only go across the map in specific lines. Many maps have become somewhat similar to Lery's in that regard. There are 3-4 specific routes you can use for map mobility and that's pretty much it. Then you have maps like RPD... Where your ability is to break pallets slightly faster and GoJ, where your power is a so-so map mobility and sometimes a slightly faster pallet break at the cost of your lethality. And only when survivors don't know how bad this map really is.
In short: Billy aged like fine milk even without the rework.
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Literally just remove overheat, nothing else needs to be done to him besides that. I will never understand how a killer like Billy who is universally loved got gutted but Nurse who is universally hated is somehow still the most overpowered killer.
I would also like to see some loop collision changes on some maps like The Game and the swamp that prevent him from using his power at loops.
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Spirit did not get even close to as much butchered as Freddy and Billy... She is still the 3rd best killer in the game.
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Sure but not everyone ran those addons, they could have just made it so the addons don't stack and he would have been fine.
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You are correct in those. On the addon front they already showed they can do interesting ideas with billys stealth saw addon. And lopro to go through pallets. Hell lopro didnt exist in original billy. And its one of his best addons now. I have faith on the addon front.
For camping again bubba is king. (And now michael with tombstone as well) and we have anti facecamp. Other killers like trickster screw you more when your being tunneled for how fast they can chew through your endurance and hit you again. Billy has to actually catch back up after a saw or m1.
Also another aspect of him changed some people forget. All the animations. His fov got narrowed to add more counterplay to his saw. So shadowborn is basically basekit on him. And now he feels like hes lethargic looking down all the time and with his limp. Hell even the roar they just thought would be funny to add. They ruined so much of his overall basekit flow outside of just overheat and his addons.Which i hope they are looking to change again.
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Yes lopro chains is one of his best addons, but I think it is quite bad design considering what it does, it puts the survivor in a loose loose situation, if you predrop the pallet Billy saws through it, if you drop it during chase he might saw you through it with the addon and if you drop it too late you get insta downed... I don't like that concept, but I agree it is a strong addon.
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Very well put ^^
I also thought about AFC, effectively making his overheat redundant. So maybe it should just be removed after all, even if it won't restore Billy to his past prime.
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In my experience when playing at that time, 95% of the killer ran them (me included). Thats also not very surprising, when that were the only potent add-ons to be usable for casual players (billy mains would use engravings as well, of course).
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Just bring back Old Billy with nerfed Charge Time addons and that's all. Old Billy at current dbd wouldn't be S tier for sure.
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Didn't know about the fov. About the animations, did that really have an impact on playing billy, or was it more like ppl "lost the feel" of playing billy with this changes, and projected that on some non-existing mechanic changes?
Having difficulties to explain what I mean here. I mean some kind of coping mechanism, billy animations changed, playing billy does not "feel good" anymore, players perform worse out of frustration for the unnecessary changes, and blame it on the change itself.
Although I played the game already when the billy changes came, I was and I am no billy main, so I can't say if there were any significant changes besides overheat and addon rework. All I know is, whenever I play billy nowadays, it tends to be really frustrating. But that's more because of bad maps and optimal survivors than his power being "unusable".
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No, the animations where way smoother and you did not have that whole looking down and what not thing, it was just way nicer to play.
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Nah, for me it was mostly crack billy that I went against, which was fine. Double recharge was not the only potent stuff, running one engraving and recharge/thompson mix was also a viable option.
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Sure, combinations of engravings and recharge/cooldown would work to, but require some more mechanical skill. For players only playing billy from time to time (like me), it was usually much easier to just use double recharge addons to get good results (noob friendly, you could say). But that was it, engravings and recharge/cooldown, the other addons unused, useless, never to be seen (unless killer was meming).
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Didn't he have like 4 charge addons and 2 engravings? So thats 6 usefull addons already, quite a lot more than he has currently.
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He needs a complete rework to his addons, his base power is fine. When they did his addon pass, they removed most of the small qol addons that addressed the inherent penalties of the chainsaw, without compensating for that. He suffers from that to this day.
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