Need opinion on another legion rework/addition
Hey y’all ! I need y’all’s opinion on a legion rework/addition. I have reading some feedback and I will be constantly be trying to see what would be the best fit for him so here’s another idea. Trust me I know that he barely requires skill so I try to atleast add some addition to skill in legion
This next idea is a mix of nemesis, Michael myers, and his BFF add on.
I would push legion to be a more gain better power based on tiering up. Maybe even make it where you have to gain stacks to put survivors into a mending state.
You would gain your first stack by hitting any survivor and only get the second stack by hitting the same survivor
As Tier 1
- Frenzy speed is set to 4.6m/s
- Requires two frenzy hits to put survivors in mending state
- After Frenzy hitting the same survivor only gain half of frenzy timer but still increase the movement speed by 0.2 m/s
- Mending only Requires 6 Seconds to heal from
Note : Legion would need to find the perfect time to frenzy the survivor otherwise he could get looped and get pushed off into cooldown. If he does get his first hit easily said by just hugging the survivor he then gets only half to time to stab the survivor again to apply mending which if the survivor has lithe or other methods in getting away legion ends up going into cooldown. So the survivor has to learn how to mind game the legion by 360, confusing him by vaulting, make him miss of even just running a good loop.
As Tier 2
You would gain Tier 2 after putting (FOR EXAMPLE) 3 survivors into the mending state OR INSTEAD After stabing 6 time in frenzy
- Frenzy speed is set to 5.0m/s
- Still requires two frenzy hits to put survivor into mending state and only gain half of the frenzy timer
- Increase Frenzy timer by 5 seconds( total of 15 seconds)
- Increase movement speed after each stab by 0.3m/s
- Vault 20% Slower
- Mending only requires 8 seconds to heal from
Note: Pretty much the same thing but time increase and being faster. Same concept but bringing up the pace.
As Tier 3
You would gain after putting (FOR EXAMPLE) 7 survivors into the mending state OR INSTEAD After stabing 12 times in frenzy
- Frenzy speed is set to 5.2m/s
- Still requires 2 frenzy stab to put survivor into mending state but lose only 3/4 of frenzy timer
- Frenzy timer is still set to 15 seconds
- Increase movement after each stab is still at 0.3m/s
- Vault 50% Slower
- Increase Frenzy stab animation by 20%
- After Third frenzy stab you can down the survivor ( after you gain your second stack)
- Mending only requires 10 seconds to heal from
Note: Keep in mind A third frenzy to down a survivor sounds pretty easy but to make this not too strong. Not only is legion slower in vaulting and takes longer to be able to melee again and only has 7.5 seconds to stab you again. You would lose all two stacks on the survivor after going into cooldown. This would mean if the survivor is in the mending state and can not down you due to losing all those stacks. This also make it to where survivors have to think if they want to mend or not to give legion more stack, or heal up to not get M1’ed
This is something that took me some time to think about and would want some opinion on because would change legion a lot but atleast I would think puts a little more skill and consistency into legion. If y’all don’t think so I would love to hear it so on the next discussion I could modify my idea.
Comments
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I've read this three times now, and I can't see it as anything other than a massive nerf. I admire your commitment to this and the thought you've put into it, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I guess look into the vaulting nerfs; 50% is an insane reduction. A fast vault is 0.5 seconds, Legion's vault in Frenzy is 0.9 seconds, while a normal Killer vault is 1.7 seconds. That nerf would bring his vault speed in Frenzy to just faster than a slow vault (1.5 seconds).
Post edited by Raconteurminator on1 -
Oh okay thank you ! I was being really generous and tried to put in nerfs and buffs in at the same time but if that’s the case then I would probably can the vault speed to be a bit quicker like in Tier 2 10% and Tier 3 20%. And probably remove the whole animation increase. Thanks for the feedback!
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I think it might be more interesting to give legion different kinds of frenzies instead of tiers of frenzies which this seems to be going more towards
also 5.2m/s + gain 0.3m/s + stab 3 times to down someone + 15s duration + you can stab the same survivor twice to deep wound so you can hit them a third time any way would mean you can down a single survivor independent of others very quickly even with the normal vault speed in frenzy
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I Could make another discussion about legion having different frenzies. With the current discussion you left out the negatives of tier 3 would make downing a survivor viable. The reason why he can’t down a survivor is because how easily you could do it back then. And downing a survivor isn’t any easier when you are just left with M1 killer. Trust me I appreciate the feedback!
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I really don't see how this would make him more interesting to go against or play... It is still just the same old power but with extra steps that make him way to complicated for such an easy concept.
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Well yeah, that’s kinda the point😅 His power isn’t suppose to be overly changed and those extra steps give him an acceptable way to down survivors while not making super easy. Yeah he’s known as an easy killer but that doesn’t mean he has to be, other killers have complex abilities and also techs so why not legion ?
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Because his power does not get complicated in execution, just in explaining how it works... This is why it is overly complicated. Also I don't really see an advantage of this thing over the current version, like what exactly is the goal?
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The goal is the make legion able to end chase without have to M1 survivors. To make where is viable I added a tier system. If I made it to be like old legion, you would pretty much have a Michael myers that can pop his ability anytime he wants with no counter play. You can also look at nemesis, he’s don’t given tier 3 at the beginning of the match others he would be too powerful!
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I honestly don’t think legion needs a rework its more based on what are his perks and add ons that make it a easy or hard game so reworking them around the frenzy would cause me to throw them aside because then i have to chase everyone in frenzy and thats not fun for anyone most people already dislike Leigon for the frenzy mending
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But Legions power is not really that interesting in that sense, and it does not become more interesting if you have to stab the same person more than once. Do you still need to hit 3 different survivors or the same survivor 3 times? Because if you have to hit the same person twice just for mending then this whole thing sounds just awful.
It is completely fine for legion to use his m1 to get a down and not always get a down with his power as it currently is... But if you can just hit the same survivor over and over again then we are basically at OG Legion, which was the worst thing they ever created.
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Well yeah that why I decreased the time of mending and didn’t make it easy to apply. But I don’t blame you, legion is not going to get work on in a long time or at all even based on Behaviors new road map
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Well no? If you read hitting the same survivor would only get you half the time of frenzy. Give his power more use when there is only one or two survivors instead of relying on multiple survivors being in one place, the survivor would gain the mending effect after two frenzy stab and again if you read hitting the same survivor gains you stacks which after 2 stabs you gain two stacks and after that you get a down. Getting into cool down loses all stacks. What I didn’t mention which I take all the blame is I guess I would make it to when trying to hit multiple survivors the first survivor gains no mending effect but the survivor after does.
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In that case the whole thing sounds like a big nerf... The whole split up thing still counters him, his mend is faster, he needs to spend more time for even getting someone into mending and then maybe not even more out of it. Sure he gets longer mend in a higher tier, but also becomes slower with vaulting windows, so just hugging a good window probably just makes him run out of his power.
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apparently in his develop, Legion was said to have Michael tier's where he had to stalk you to get his ability. I think that stalking/build-up mechanic are bad design for killers because it add time-sink to the killer who is already had time disadvantage.
The only time you can justify time sinks like that is on killer that have mori's such Tombstone Myer's and Sadako. This is because Mori inherently is time-save so it makes sense for character with mori to have time-sinks into their kit.
Note : Legion would need to find the perfect time to frenzy the survivor otherwise he could get looped and get pushed off into cooldown. If he does get his first hit easily said by just hugging the survivor he then gets only half to time to stab the survivor again to apply mending which if the survivor has lithe or other methods in getting away legion ends up going into cooldown. So the survivor has to learn how to mind game the legion by 360, confusing him by vaulting, make him miss of even just running a good loop.
Legion's fundamental problem is that there is no way to counter-play his feral frenzy to not get hit because of his ability to vault pallets and m1 after vaulting a pallet. A good killer will not miss and will not get mind-gamed by 360 or anything wiggle that a survivor does at base-kit. You can't make a good killer m1 swings. If killer m1 swing, they made huge error in gameplay.
this leaves legion with fundamental problem. With no ability to down survivors in feral frenzy, he becomes a weak m1 killer that get defeated by regular loop tactics. My suggestion would be to make it that survivor can activate an on-demand 25% haste bonus to wiggle his m1 attack by acquiring an item from a trial. This item has 10 second cooldown to be used. After that, you can buff legion by making him decrease deep wound timer by 1/4 per feral slash. I outline a rework at one point which involved make each feral frenzy slash reducing deep wound timer by 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 and 4/4 for each consecutive initial slash. A follow-up slash reduces timer by 1/4. This means that you can hit Survivor 1, Survivor 2, and then hit 2 times for survivor 3 to go down OR hit survivor 4. The item that provides 25% add counter-play for survivor to wiggle while buffed feral frenzy gives legion anti-loop.
The rework also included other buffs such as lowering his feral frenzy recharge rate(12 seconds), lowering his TR per injured survivor to encourage people to heal and reworking his killer instinct to be static 40 meters that is unaffected by TR perks, Oblivious and Undetectable.
If you want to play a version legion that similar, you can play Chucky. Chucky is Legion 2.0 but with special attack balanced around wiggling gameplay. Legion can be something similar but needs rework+a lot of fine-tuning to get there.
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Oh trust me I know chucky is just a better legion😂thanks for the feedback! I might make a new discussion with something similar!
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Yeah I heard something similar so I wouldn’t make it 50% slower vaulting speed to 30% or 25%. I was only being generous with the negatives so legion didn’t seem overpower like how burger king myers exist. I made the mend time quick so it didn’t become a mending sim like it always is currently.Also I’m pretty sure vaulting passes the power so he wouldn’t lose it after vaulting unless you did it last minute
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