#bringbackSadako IS REAL!!!!!!!

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  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,728
    edited November 2023
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    Yeah, because bringing back an iteration of a killer that is objectively worse in every way is such a great thing to do.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Ok?

    They knew how problematic the changes where. They pushed it regardless and now they realized that we weren't wrong. That's reasonable.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,728
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    The only thing wrong is that you think ''fun'' is a valid argument for why Sadako should be reverted.

  • Chilli_man2400
    Chilli_man2400 Member Posts: 2,883
    edited November 2023
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    Eyyy we have a WWE fan love it.

    but back to this I’m not surprised she’s getting changed cause her killrate is extremely high and she’s the easiest to get kills with even without addons

    also it has been months since her rework and we have enough to show she’s pretty strong

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,003
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    Because they have to interact with Tapes if they don't want to be mori'd.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,353
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    your one of the only player that talks about rework negatively. Your post widely misunderstand a lot of change thought behind the killer. The first one being is global condemn. the problem 16 meter of condemn was that corralling survivor into TV was very difficult. Small maps that had double floor like Gideon heavily favoured Sadako while larger outdoor maps were a dice roll for carolling survivors into TV's. Global condemn was to make Sadako less map dependent.

    Another weird misconception is that you cannot play new sadako like old sadako. this is not true. you can play old sadako in new sadako. you get shorter tv cooldown's and can teleport more often on average compare to old base-kit.

    Right now it's doesn't matter how good you are as survivor in that regard. Your getting condemned all the same.

    this is not true at all. how good you at looping m1 killer greatly decides how quickly sadako m1 the tape out of your hand. Because Sadako has to m1 survivors with tapes, Predicting televisions is not sufficient enough to to be successful. you need to teleport to a tv and hit survivor from TV teleport. Just like you describing corralling survivors into TV's teleports, you do same thing with current survivor holding tapes but like you said, counter-play is very easy to 180. In old sadako, you did not need to hit survivors with each teleport. you only needed to teleport in 16 meter radius. that is why onepumpwillies strategy of 3 gen was so effective. You have to do gens and TV spawn near gens. If you played in 3 gen play-style, you had no control over avoiding condemned. you had to finish 3 gens to power gate. This was only way to remove rng component of the map. there was like... almost no skill component to the sadako. with iri-tape, you could mindless spam teleport's with almost no consequence or thought process behind any teleport. Your only limitation to teleporting was getting a hit here and there just to reset 4 TV's. this was very easy play-style that even new player could have great success.

    Old Sadako had to monitor all tvs to see when and where someone picked up a tape and predict where the correct TV for the tape was.

    Current Sadako still monitors TV's. This skill is more pronounced in her kit because tv are constantly being turned on and off. The problem with old kit was that... condemn was lackluster in build-up that nobody needed to pick up a tape. it just simply wasn't required. If anything, picking-up a tape was death trap because sadako could stay 19 meters away from survivor and follow survivor. Whenever they try insert a tape, you TP to TV to cancel the tape insertion. you would keep doing this until 30 second condemn timer automatic builds condemn. This was very cheesy. it was almost as cheesy as Pig following you with active head-trap. Some player refer to this as "tunneling condemn sadako strategy". you can see showcase of this with Otz who put a video about this for old Sadako for how he best found to use condemn to kill people. there wasn't much tape-gameplay going on with old Sadako.

    In any case, I do not expect sadako to get buffed. I would expect her to be nerfed because she likely over-performs vs poor teams.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    You misunderstand my points. Again.

    If Sadako teleports right now. What do you do to prevent getting condemned? You grab a tape. Anything else? No. You cant do anything about it.

    3 gens are not as effective anymore. The perks making it insanely strong are not as good anmore and there will also be a new mechanic punishig killers that 3 gen from the get go.

    "Tunneling" a survivor with a tape was the reward. Your correct that nobody interacted with a tape. Therefore the Sadako had to put a lot of effort into condemning survivors effectively. When you finally had worked enough, the survivor (or more survivors) would pick up a tape. This was your time to shine. This was when you needed to kill that survivor. Was this as uncounterable as you claim it to be? Not by a long shot. Good teamplay prevented a lot of it. Bodyblocking a survivor inserting the tape worked extremely well. Now i hear you say: " sadako could go through survivors though!". Correct. But if the bodyblocker was close and placed him-/herself correctly enough to the survivor inserting the tape, autoaim and hitbox would always let you hit the bodyblocker. I tested it out. I played her a lot. I tested her a lot. I knew her well.


    I dont think i misunderstood anything about her rework. I played her a lot on the ptb. Gave my feedback and got a lot of suppoert from youtube and here on the forums. The condmning in chase is fine. I didnt say anything about that. I even supported these changes enabling alternative ways to condemn survivors on the ptb. But you cant read what i wrote anymore. I didnt want the whole rework to be reverted. I wanted some unhealthy parts of it reverted.

    What was bad:

    • global condemned
    • Sadako losing chase when demanifested
    • Tapes no longer giving passive condemned
    • Cooldown on teleporting constricting her fluid gameplay
    • deleting carrawling survivors into tvs as a skillful interaction (apparently thats too hard now?????)
    • Probably some more but i cant remeber what i exactly wrote almost 5 MONTHS AGO
    • Addon pass doing nothing to her useless addons and nerfing reikos watch for no reason
    • Change to Iridescent video tape, incentivising slugging
    • Survivors being able to put their tape in every TV

    What was good:

    • Tapes getting destroyed when hit
    • Cooldowns switched and reduced drastically
    • Sadako not being able to be stunned when demanifested
    • Nerf to ring drawing, disincentivising slugging
    • Tapes getting destroyed for hooking (got changed!)
    • Nerfing Iridescent video tape

    For all those in this post who want to see me as an antagonist right now: I sat down for over 5 hours to write and discuss a whole addon pass with tons of ideas and suggestions for fun, strong and creative addons. I WANT THIS CHARACTER TO BE BETTER. NOT WORSE.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Because she requires way less skill, is disproportionally stronger against solos and still sluggs players for moris. Maybe even more than before.

  • OrangeBear
    OrangeBear Member Posts: 2,517
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    Well, that's what happens in the film. And if you don't remove the reverse bear trap you'll die as well... still don't get it.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Please read the other posts in this thread. Im currently also searching for my ptb feedback because im exhausted repeating myself.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    That's kind of a dumb statement, people dislike new sadako because if she targets you specifically there's nothing you can do about it considering she can effortlessly prevent you from interacting with the tapes entirely. Same problem old sadako had btw

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    Please explain to me what you can do if you get targeted other than delay the inevitable mori

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Ok guys: HERE WE GO!!!

    "Dear BHVR and all the people reading and writing in this forum,

    this is my first post here.

    Up until this point ive just read posts and havent really interacted with anyone.

    However, this PTB as me so emotional that i cannot but give my opinions on the matter at hand.

    A little information to back up my opinion. Im currently the player on official steam stats with the 4th highes condemn rate on sadako in this game and have played her since realease up to this point.

    Therefore i want to talk in depth about the changes you want to establish and whether these are good or not.

    First things first: her basekit changes to projection.

    --> Sadako now condemns all survivors not carrying a tape when she teleports to a TV by 3/4 of a stack

    I dont like this change at all. DBD is a game where the killer and the survivor should try to outplay the other side and be rewarded with an effect. May that be a hit, a down, or in the case of Sadako a stack of condemned.

    Chasing survivors into TV´s was a skillfull interaction between surivor and killer where the survivor looked back and predicted the Sadako´s next move. If she teleports, the survivor was able to do a 180 turn and run in the oppsite direction of the TV OUTPLAYING the Sadako and not getting condemned. If the Sadako was more patient or the survivor not that mindfull, the Sadako got a stack of condemned and the game continued.

    With the condemned effect being map wide this skillfull interaction is completely gone.

    This is NOT good and NOT how this should work. teleporting is now basicly a thing you do on the fly to a random TV with no thought put into it and definitely not a decision you make.

    ---> Projection cooldown has been reduced to 70 seconds

    This is a good change. This is what she needed!!! Survivors had no incentive to interact with TV´s because the cooldown from them interacting with it was bigger than the one from Sadako using it. This change implemented alone incentivises survivors to pick up tapes to neagte your power of fast map mobility.

    It would have been even better if it was that if she gets a hit after demanifesting at any means, the last TV turned off via projection would be turned on again.

    -->Cooldown by survivor putting tape in is increased to 90 seconds

    Also a good change. This makes survivors interct with the TV´s more often. Be carefull however: if survivors turn off her TV´s more often, she has no map mobility and has to run around large maps making her loose a TON of time. Therefore again it would be good if she was able to put on a TV instantly BASEKIT.

    --> The Onryo has a 15 second cooldown on projection

    Two points i posted, that survivors woth the changed cooldowns on the TV´s now have an incentive to interact your power to stop your fast map mobility. This change makes it virutally not even a problem for survivors at all. A 15 second cooldown means, that Sadako (even if the survivors DONT interact with the TV´s) has no fast map mobility. This was one of her big strenghts and with this its completely gone. Sadako teleports to a TV and has to walk around the map for 15 seconds without being able to use her power at all. This limits Sadakos map traversal in an way too big way in relation to her not being good in chase but thats a point i will come to later.

    Overall, this is a terrible change and it goes hand in hand with another terrible change. This cooldown is basicly in place, so that the Sadako cant teleport to multible TV´s gaining a TON of condemned on survivors in seconds (around 2 minutes to fully condemn survivors that do absolutely nothing about you).However i said that the map wide change is terrible as a whole therefore this change is as well.

    On top of that, this cooldown makes her very slow and clunky to play and does NOT feel good.

    Now for the changes to her cursed tapes.

    --> getting hit with a basic attack gives a survivor holding a cursed tape a stack of condemned

    This in a bubble sounds like a good change. Sadako now has multible new ways to build up condemned. However, the effect of this change stands and falls with Ssadako as a whole. In the changes to projection i stated that Sadako looses a lot of map moblility due to the survivors interacting more with TV´s and the 15 seconds cooldown. Therefore she looses her strenght to be able to pop up everywhere aroundd the map to chase and hit survivors. This immediately lowers the effectiveness of this change because if the survivor picked up a tape and know Sadako is not near (WHICH SURVIVORS KNOW!!!) there is no risk of using a Tape and putting it to a TV. Additionally this change is also limited very hard by the fact that Sadako has no real chase potential. Again a point i will copme to later, but it is important to mention here. A survivor with a strong set up or basic understanding of looping is able to negate a hit from her for a long time is necessary (carrying a tape would be one of these scenarios) making this change effectively not very usefull. However, this change CAN come in handy in a very strong way. On the ptb i tested to just hit, down and slug survivors with tapes and hover around their position until they got picked up again. Then i downed them again before they where able to put their tapers in a TV. This was scarely effective. I only had to do this a couple of times and the survivor i hit blinked red during falling to the ground. This is hard slugging survivors to basicly tunnel them out of the game. What i heard from people criticizing her playstyle way that they hated how much slugging related it was and how it made games boring and unfun. This change is exaclty that but its incentivized in her basekit NOT by an addon. Therefore this change is good as a concept and could be implemented to her kit. However it should not give the survivor a stack whgen he gets put into the dying state. Only healthy to injured or injured to deep wound.

    --> whe Sadako hooks a survivor with a tape, all survivors gain a stack od condemned and the tape is destroyed

    This part made me so happy to see. Hooking a survivor and gaining passive pressure / reward by doing so. This change incentivizes her to hook survivors rather than slugging them and also makes for some strategic decisionmaking because the tape will be destroyed. The survivor looses his objective to ut back the tape but keeps his stacks of condemned, therefore having to pick up another tape and the other survivors gain pressure from the killer. An absolutely awesome change to create pressure on the whole team. However, this is only a good effect if its seen in a bubble. What i mean by that will be expained in the next part but it IS less effective in killing survivors than slugging and tunneling them from the ground to the ground.

    --> a cursed tape no longer builds up condemned passively and survivors carring a tape are not effected by the map wide condemned through teleporting

    This is the first change that makes the other two ways of inflicting condemned not really threatening. Because of no longer getting condemned from carrying a tape the risk of taking it at all is basicly zero. Not just removes it any risk but it actually makes the tapes a safety wall for the survivors against Sadako and her curse. A healthy survivor carrying a tape will NOT get condemned through tapes and only via Sadako hitting them. The problem is, and i hate to say it again that i will talk about that later, Sadako is not strong in chase. She will NOT get many hits on most maps if survivors are playing safe. She also has no ability to instantly down a survivor so she can hit you but not stop you from inserting a tape. This is a TERRIBLE change and should not be implemented.

    --> survivors now can put their cursed videotape in any TV on the map

    This is the second change that make her tape non-threatening. Survivos carrying a tape basicly have to walk 4-8 seconds to negate all the pressure the Sadako has accumulated AND turn off her power of map mobility by doing so for 90 seconds on top of that. This wasted almost no time for the survivor compared to them running around the map to do it. This puts Sadako into a loose - loose situation if the survivor has a tape. Her power is basicly completely controled by the survivors. Even if they are right in front of you this does not help. Up until this point the only way of harassing a survivor and making them not inserting their tape was using safe the best for last. With 5 or more stacks the hit cooldown animation was shorter than the survivor taking time to put in the tape. This will still be possible however will be ultimately pointless because the survivor can just run to the next TV if picked up and put in their tape. The only way to gain anything out of this intercation for the Sadako is, as i stated before to slug the survivor and wait for them to be picked up to slug them again.

    Regarding the change as a whole is brings another element to the table. The Sadako had to figure out which TV the survivor needed in the first place. This again was SKILLFULL gameplay from the killers side. It was incredibly risky but had a hight reward. If the Sadako figured out the TV of the survivor she would be able to harass that survivor by teleporting to exact that TV and chasing them, downing them and either slugging or hooking them (both are fine because the Sadako only wants to waste the time of the surivivor until the TV they need is turned back on again)(with the changes to hooking survivors, slugging them would actually be thw orse option for the Sadako).

    With the TV ´s now all taking the survivors tapes this prediciting and harassing is NOT GONE but absolutely pointless. Finding out what TV means nothing if they can just run up to the next and putting the tape in on top of you having a 15second cooldown to teleportand harass them gain. This removes skillfull expression and the ability to harass survivors carrying tapes on top of mkaing it extremely easy to remove condemned making them less powerfull for Sadako and more of a safety measure for the survivors.

    In your post you stated that that they would be more threatful, however you made them way less of a threat than they are right now on the live servers. Right now, a surivor picking up a tape ALONE BY THEMSELVES puts them in in a huge risk because the Sadako has the ability to ONLY focus them and harass them. This being risky and only strong if played right and having counterplay via good coordination and teamwork from the survivors side.

    These two changes remove any threat from the tapes with no advantage for the Sadako player.

    Overall these two changes are the worst of the bunch and should NOT be implemented.

    However, because i dont just want to complain, here is a solution for the Sadako being too oppresive if she has figured out the traged TV: make it two TV´s close to each other where the survivor can put in their tape.

    On to the next changes: demanifestation.

    --> the Onryo no longer can be stunned by a pallet while demanifested

    No. This is not it. This change does not impact her negatively however, it doesnt impact her positvely as well. First of all, a survivor that is NOT dumb will know about the Sadako´s ability to not being able to get stunned therefore just wainting at the pallet until the Sadako is fully manifested to stun her.

    In the chase that the Sadako is not fully manifested and the survivor and the survivor drops the pallet the Sadako will have to break it. Sadako doesnt get stunned but doesnt get a hit either and has to break it because she does not have an ability to deal with pallets faster. On top of that the survivor can just run away so yeah....

    This is not different than to how she is now except that survivors will greed pallets a bit less, giving Sadako no chance of getting a hit in chase in a faster way.

    --> Chases are prevented while being demaifested but also makes her not being able to bloodlust

    This is a medallion with two sides. The positive part is what is stated in the patch notes. It is harder to keep track of her (FOR A NOT COORDINATED TEAM, THAT CALL OUT HER POSITION). However it is also pretty easy to keep vaguely track of her lullaby that is heard when shes nearby. Good change. The negative part is her loosing bloodlust.

    I know this is a difficult topic because bloodlust is a controversial aspect of the game.

    However, we have to look on why it is implemented in the first place because Sadako is a prime example for it. While in chase Sadako has no chasing power and is therefore considered an M1 killer. She is NOT getting faster like Wraith does. She even slows herself down while demanifetsing mid chase loosing distance in the process. She is a killer that NEEDS bloodlust and im not proud to say that. So we have two outcomes with her loosing bloodlust while demanifested:

    1) she manifests and plays normal killer gaining bloodlust in the process and with it loosing a lot of time doing so (manifest --> chase --> bloodlust --> maybe hit --> chase --> bloodlust --> hit --> down (not including more time demanifesting to teleport somewhere else)), which is very bad.

    2) she stays demanifested but cannot keep up with survivors only breaking pallets she cant get stunned by but not gaining hits, therefore not gaining pressure

    This in the long term is actually a nerf to her current chase potential which is already pretty low.

    Right now she can be fast while demanifested negating the effects of the slowdown of manifetsing and surprising survivors with mindgames of her post-manifested state due to no red stain and unclear visibility.

    This had to be buffed! Reikos Watch and newspaper feel necessary to really play these mindgames effectively even against good survivors and they are not made basekit. Not even the base numbers are increased.

    I see it compared to Wraith a lot who also looses chase when cloaking. However:

    1) Wraith is faster than normal while cloaked

    2) Wraith can bodyblock survors with it

    These are things Sadako cant do.

    Ive also seen the idea of play with your food on her. While i understand the idea i dont like it when a killer HAS to use certain perks to become viable. Enough said.


    In regards to Reikos watch and newspaper lets look at the Addon pass she got that was supposed to make her less viable addons more usable and her overperfoming ones less NEEDED.

    I was very interested after being dissapointed by her base kit changes what the addons would bring to the table because most of them are bad.

    First i will state the addons that are good right now:

    • Iridescent Videotape (overperforming and problematic)
    • Tape editing deck
    • Ring drawing (overperforming and problematic)
    • Bloody fingernails
    • Well water (debatebly)
    • Reikos watch
    • Yoichis fishing net (debatebly)
    • Cabin sign (overperforming from at least my point of view because i use it EVERY SINGLE MATCH)
    • Mothers mirror (debatebly)
    • Old Newspaper

    The iridescent Videotape is problematic because it is needed to keep up with survivors right now. This addon is used so much because it lets Sadako use her power reliably, getting rewarded for hits while not being restricted by super long cooldowns.

    In my opinion it is NOT NEEDED to play her well but serves more like an addon that makes the player not being pressured to play absolutely perfectly because wrong teleports (mistakes) can literally be resetted.

    SADAKO DOES NOT NEED THIS ADDON TO BE VIABLE. HOWEVER IT FEELS NEEDED MOSTLY DUE TO PLAYERS MAKING MISTAKES. (Which is fine)

    All it needed was to reduce the effect of the Addon by half and make one TV come back on basekit. Therefore the addon would feel less needed and would be nerfed to a maximum of 3 TV´s coming back after a hit, therefore being less oppressive.

    --> iridescent videotape now gives the survivor only one TV to put their tape in

    This is how Sadako works right now and it is locked behind an addon. As i mentioned before predicitng the target TV of a survivor was a skillfull and risky play. Locking a skillfull play that is otherwise NOT possible behind an iridescent addons baffles me to be honest.

    This addon is now more needed than ever. If not for its strenght but for its effect to express skill form the killers side. I brought this addon very little and mostly used the cabin sign to use my TV#s faster. This change makes we want to autolock it in my loadout.

    VERY BAD

    The Ring drawing was the second problematic one, rewarding Sadako for slugging and therefore creating the slug-condemn playstyle, which is absolutely unhealthy for her and the game.

    --> Ring drawing now only condemns survivors doing healing actions from injured to healthy

    Very good change. Together with the change to incentivice hooking, slugging is absolutely not the way to go.

    It will still be a very strong addon due to the recent healing changes, so it will not drop in usage in my opinion.

    VERY GOOD

    --> Reikos watch being nerfed in numbers

    This changes is pointless and bad and the only explanation for it is that it was used to much, therefore having to be nerfed by exel spreadsheet.

    The addon was used to give Sadako chase potential that she desperately needed.

    Instead of looking why it has such a high pick rate it got nerfed because of pure pick rate.

    All it needed was to make half of it basekit and nerf it accordingly or make it fully basekit and rework the addon entirely. Dont worry she wont be a strong chasing killer if this addon wa smake basekit because:

    1) she is still a M1 killer having to hit survivors two times

    2) the survivor still having counterplay to avoid hits at loops if they play correctly

    The change reminds me of the nerf to marvins blood and the intended nerfs to billy's engravings. They are pointsless and only happen because the addons is used too much. If made basekit and reworked / nerfed accordingly, the numbers would also go down normally.

    This just hurts her chase potentiall even more and take even more skill expression away from her and the survivors shes playing against.

    VERY BAD

    Other good addons like the cabin sign got changed due to the cooldown of projection being lower, whci is understandable and fine.

    To you the reader, i ask you now to compare her addons from before to now with this Addon pass.

    Back?

    Good.

    You have certianly realized, that most of her addons actually haven changed much or at all.

    Therefore: her bad addons right now:

    • Remote Control
    • Distorted foto
    • Telephone
    • Mothers comb
    • Rickety pinwheel
    • clumb of hair
    • sea soaked cloth
    • well stone
    • videotape copy

    Lets start with the (only) positive change: The remote control

    --> survivors no longer have to carry a tape for their auras being revealed

    Awesome. This is a great change and could be implemented immediately. However, with the changes to her basekit and the flaws the changes would bring to it, this addon now has the problem of not coming into play much often due to TV' being turned off most of the time due to how easy it it to retrieve and insert tapes.

    GOOD CHANGE IN A BUBBLE

    The other addons are bad right now and underperfoming, because their effects are pointsless for gameplay, like the distorted photo. A survivor that is near is most of the time in the face of the killer. Therefore this addon does NOTHING. This addon helps with stealthing survivors that crouch around the map to not get found.

    Most medium to good survivors dont do that, making the effect absolutely pointless.

    For its rarity this addon has a pointless effect that is just buffed in numbers

    VERY BAD

    Same goes with other addons that just have bda effects like the rickety pinwheel.

    This addon gives oblivious to survivors around TV's.

    Sadako moves most of the time demanifested around the map, meaning, she has no terror raidus but a lullaby. The lullaby is heard even if the survivor is oblivious, making this addon ultimately pointless in effect NOT in numbers.

    As you can see, this "addon pass" did only nerf her best perfoming addons, one in a good way (ring drawing) others in a very bad way (iri tape and reikos watch) and did NOT improve her already bad addons.

    Overall im very dissapointed by the addons and the changes to them feel extremely rushed and not well thought out.

    I can just point to a post from @OnryosTapeRentals, who described the addons in more detail in his post: The Onryō Rework: An unfortunate downgrade [7.1.0 PTB Feedback]

    (sorry that the text is that big, not intendet. Again, this is my first post 😔 )

    OVERALL VERY BAD

    What happened here:

    The Rework of this killer makes her less skilled to play and less skilled to play against therefore KILLING the fun a lot of player had playing her and playing against her.

    Overall, the changes feel clumped together and not well thought out.

    What was needed: (diectly to the devs)

    1) teleport cooldowns of TV's swaped and lowered : done --> really good

    2) part of iridescent tape basekit to give sadako more power over her power and a reward for taking a hit, making condemned a more impactfull mechanic due to it coming into play more often due to TV's being turned on faster.

    3) making it that survivors can inset the tape to two TV's close to each other, to make harassing them more hard but not unfair like it can become right now. This also incentivices survivor to interact with tapes more because the threat of being mori´d is lower.

    4) ring drawing not working on survivors in the dying state to healthy: done --> really good

    --> on top of that you implemented a mechanic that rewards hooking survivors instead of slugging them, which would NOT be too oppressive with her current iteration if made basekit. It would make her a more healthy killer overall whule not making her overly strong --> extremely good

    5) Reikos watch and newspaper basekit to give her more chase potential --> not done

    --> instead you implemented a "buff" that nobody asked for and that has NO impact on her chasing as a whole due to it not being able to give the Sadako-player a chance for a hit. On top of that, you nerfed Reikos watch with no apparent reason other than it being overused --> extremely bad

    6) Addons are more meanigfull and different to warrant the use over other addons --> not done because most effects have stayed the same, therefore addons that where used a lot will still be used a lot.

    Final Conclusion: (directly to the devs)

    "She crawled out of the TV right into out hearts" This line made me actually very sad / deeply depressed because of the changes you have planned for her. There are a lot of players like myself that have dedicated a lot of time (since her release) and effort to learn this killer and she therefore became very close to OUR hearts.

    These changes destroy what we (the players) have built up for over one year without clear reasoning. It makes me loose faith into your decisionmaking as a whole.

    If these are the changes you come up after one year of nothing at all, to say that im very dissapointed would be a huge understatement.

    If you CANT HELP HER IN THE RIGHT WAY, pls dont CHANGE HER AT ALL.

    Therefore my best suggestion regarding these changes on the ptb is to NEVER let it go live as a package and go back to the drawing board.

    I BEG you to think this through carefully. (crying face)😥

    Thank you or reading"

    That was my first ptb post.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
    edited November 2023
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    What bodyblocks? She can phase through survivors while demanifested. If you're targeted you have physically no time to put the tape anywhere, just like you don't have time to pick one up after you've lost the first

    Key word: targeted

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    This was my second post:

    "This is my part two to the Onryo change that is currently happening on the PTB.

    For part 1 and my Review of the changes, pleaso go to this post. Its a wall of text but it is important to understand of why the changes in the PTB are bad and should not go to live.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474449#Comment_3474449

    In this post however i would love to gather constructive feedback on what SHOULD go live so that we have the best ideas in one place for the dev's to see, if posssible.

    My suggestions are for her CURRENT live version. So what i think should be implemented to the live server. I will shortly mention the changes i would NOT implement in the end.

    (Im sorry for the second mountain-like-post but im very concerned about the changes on the PTB and only want the best for all of us playing her and playing against her. So please, if your interested in making her a better killer like me, grab a cup of tea, sit down, read my suggestions and help out with your important and NEEDED constructive feedback.

    First some changes to projection

    1) Teleport cooldowns of TV's :

    • Projection having 70 seconds
    • Survivor interacting with TV's having 90 seconds

    (This incentivices survivors to interact with TV's more often and helps Sadako to sustain her power. I thin anybody agrees with this change)


    2) Projecting to a TV does two effects:

    • Survivors within a 16m radius of the TV Sadako used projection on recieve one stack of condemned
    • Survivors outside a 16m radius of the TV Sadako used projection on recieve 1/4 of one stack of condemned

    (This is what i have comne up after the patch notes and a lot of good feedback on my first post. It is basicly the best of both worlds. It does retain the decisionmaking of the Onryo - player of which TV to teleport to and getting rewarded in the process while also building up passive condemned to give another incentive to the survivors to interact with the tapes and TV's. As i have stated in my first post, this makes that a lot of decisionmaking and mindgaming on part of the survivor and the killer doesn't get lost. With a passive rate of 1/4 of a stack per teleport to survivors NOT carrying a tape, Sadako does not have to get a cooldown on her teleport because the rate of the condemned building up is incredibly slow. (28 teleports are needed for a survivor NOT carrying a tape and NOT being near Sadako when she projects to a TV to fully condemn survivor.) The removal of the cooldown idea will preserve her feeling fluid and not sluggish and clunky. It will also preserve her ability to quickly move from place to place to create pressure around the map.

    The rate of which condemned is gained passively could be lowered to 1/5 of a stack if it is still too much. Making her fluid and fast to play has the highest priority, in my opinion, for the killer player having a fun experience during the trial.)


    2) A part of iridescent videotape should become basekit to give sadako more control over her power and a reward for gaining a hit, making condemned a more impactful mechanic due to it coming into play more often because TV's are being turned on faster. The iridescent Videotape - addon should be nerfed to only turning on the two last TV's turned off by projection. The iridescent Videotape - addon could also be completely reworked due to 1/4 of its effect being made basekit.

    (This change is one of the most important and maybe most controversial. Please remember that the Iridescent Videotape only turns on TV's turned off by projection, not the ones turned off by a survivor. It will therefore not come into play that often if survivors interact with TV's more often. Overall the addon would be nerfed which is fine regarding all the other positive changes coming to her.

    I also want to keep the satisfying "bing bing bing bing"-sound that plays during the Iridescent Videotape - addon's effect ------ Pls smile and nod right now if you like this sound as well :D )


    Next i want to address the changes i want to suggest to the interaction with the cursed tapes:

    1) Survivors can inset the tape to two TV's close to each but still a bit away form the one where the tape is retrieved from. This is one TV more than the one TV, which is the live version right now, and way less than all TV's, which is the change on the PTB.

    (This change is one of the biggest, most impactfull and most necessary in my opinion, because it decides on how easy or difficult it is to remove condemned. Removing condemned should be a risky endeavour for the survivor whiole giving the Sadako much needed slowdown. I think we can all agree with that. On the live servers, the Sadako player can predict the correct TV, the survivor hjass to put their tape in and this can create some unfair scenarios for the survivor carrying it mostly ending in a mori. This can feel extremely unfair in soloq and is hard to counter with teamwork and impossible to counter without teamwork / the Sadako having 5-8 stacks of safe the best for last (interrupting the survivor from inserting the tape completely). I dont think she should punish soloq more than swf or a coordinated group in gereral, therefore the change that the survivor can insert the tape to two TV's rather than one. This could even be incresed to three TV's if still too strong. This idea is close to the change Pig got to her boxes to prevent unfair scenarios. On the PTB right now, tapes can be inserted to any TV availible. This makes it extremely easy for survivors to remove condemned, making it almost impossible to build up condemned at all. On top of that it does not really ad any slowdown at all because surivors dont have to travel large distances at all, giving Sadako eventually 5-10 seconds of slowdown per tape, which is not worth the effort compared ot applying condemned. This changes makes harassing survivors that want to insert their tapes more fair while giving Sadako the much needed slowdown everyone is asking for. It also does not remove the Sadako being able to prevent the survivor from inserting their tape, which preserves the prediciton game on the side of the Onryo This makes possible to mori a survivor if they make huge mistakes in planning and strategising throughout a match / dont coordinate well / dont help out their teammates, while giving a satisfying and game changing reward to the Onryo - player.)

    2) When a survivor carrying a cursed tape is hooked, all other survivors gain a stack of condemned and the tape cursed tape is destroyed in the process

    (This is an awesome change that is in the current PBT. It incentivizes the Onryo - player to hook survivors rather than slugging them. On top of that it also serves as a second way to spread condemned next to projection, making the condemned - mechanic more part of the gameplay during match as a whole. Due to the other changes i could see it only being 1/2 of a stack to not be too oppressive but regarding that Sadako is not the best chaser i dont think she will get many hookstages that fast. However, the hookstages she will get, will definitely be more impactful to the whole team. Lastly this removes the incentive to tunnel a the survivor that is hooked, because he lost the tape and therefore isnt gaining condemned on the hook or from the tape, while still haveing to get rid of the condemned. If this has the possiblility to become too oppressive for the hooked survivor, it could be implemented, that :

    The survivor being hooked loses one stack of condemned in the process. Sharing the curse to all others)


    3) A survivor that retrieves a tape form a TV does not gain a stackc of condemned in the process.

    (I know, i know.... this is not lore accurate. This is a change that is also currently on the PTB. In regards to all the changes to projection and the cursed tapes, i think giving survivors an additional stack of condemned upon retrieving a tape is actually overkill and a bit too much. Therefore i think this should be removed.)


    Now to the part that most players are interested about. Sadakos chase potential:

    1) Increase the invisibility duration after manifesting by 33% (Effect of Old newspaper - addon made basekit)

    2) Increase the invisiblility duration while demanifested by 50% (Effect of Reiko's watch - addon made basekit)

    (Both of these addons currently enable Sadako's chase potential being mindgames after demanifesting at pallet loops. Chase potential should in my opinion not be locked behind addons, therefore their effect should be made basekit. I think most players would agree with this. If played correctly the Sadako player would get a hit at the loop while the survivor has enough room to make a good read and therefore avoiding the hit. In my opinion these are the changes she needs to be more powerful in chase, allowing for a wide range of creative mindgames around structures while preserving her strategic - oriented style of gameplay.)

    3) The Onryo can not be stunned by a pallet while demanifested

    (I dont really get this change at all, even after testing it on the PTB. However it has no negative impact on her chase at all, therefore can be inplemented in my opinion.)


    Now to her addons:

    1) The Ring drawing - addon not spreading condemned to survivors if they heal survivors from the dying state.

    (This is also a good change from the PTB. Together with hooks spreading condemned to other survivors i dont see a reason for Sadako to slug survivors any more that the usual slugging that happens in all other killer games. Therefore disincentivizing an unhealthy playstyle. In my opinion, this addon could also gain a totally new effect, because its effect will still be very strong after the nerf.)


    2) The Reiko's watch - addon and the Old newspaper - addon should be reworked due to their effects being added to the Onryo's basekit.

    (Nothing to add here)


    3) The Remote control - addon reveals survivors auras that are with in a 12 meter radius of a TV after projection for 7 seconds.

    (Another great change on the PTB. Sadly with the changes on the PTB this addon would become pointsless again due to the TV's being turned off for a majority of the match. With the changes i suggested to projection and the interaction wioth cursed video tapes this would be a strong aura - reading - addon worth the addon - slot and worth the rarity.)

    4) The Cabin sign - addon reduces the cooldown of a TV used by projection by 7 seconds.

    (The last good change from the PTB i want to mention. Due to the cooldown of a TV being lowered to 70 seconds it is fine that this addon is nerfed accordingly.)

    This is all i can think off.

    Now it is your turn.

    These are the addons n that i have not mentioned before and how much of a change i think they need:

    • Iridescent Videotape (ultra rare) --> either it turnes on two TV's, halfing its current effect due to the changes to her basekit or rework it entirely
    • Distorted foto (very rare) --> complete rework or heavy changes
    • Tape editing deck (very rare) --> fine in my opinion, could be changed due to the changes to her basekit
    • Telephone (very rare) --> complete rework or heavy changes that dont make it unfair to play against
    • VCR (very rare) --> fine in my opinion, could maybe get an additional effect though
    • Bloody fingernails (rare) --> fine
    • Mother's comb (rare) --> could use a complete rework in my opinion
    • Rickety pinwheel (rare) --> needs a complete rework
    • Well water (rare) --> fine? maybe buff it in numbers
    • Clumb of hair (uncommon) --> complete rework or heavy changes
    • Reiko's watch (uncommon) --> complete rework due to effect being basekit
    • Sea-soaked cloth (uncommon) --> complete rework
    • Well stone (uncommon) --> rework or buff in numbers in my opinion
    • Yoichis fishing net (uncommon) --> fine
    • Mother's mirror (common) --> fine
    • Old newspaper (common) --> complete rework due to its effect being basekit
    • Videotape copy (common) --> fine as meme - addon or complete rework. Maybe along the line of the PTB rework, making it only give global condemned but lowered, on top of extra BP


    Please remember that this is based on the effects of the current live version of the addon not the PTB - version.

    The current effects can also be found here if you want to look them up : https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Sadako_Yamamura#Add-ons_for_Deluge_of_Fear

    For my reasoning of why i think some addons should be reworked please look at my first post linked in the beginning of this post.

    I ask you guys now.

    Please think of creative and fun addon ideas for all the addons stated above and chare them in this post.

    Please also give feedback on the changes i suggest should be made to the Onryo.

    Maybe i have overlooked some aspects that can become problematic or unfun for both sides.

    We need as much constructive feedback as possible to have a chance of an impactful, needed and positive change to the killer we all like so much.

    Regarding some changes from the PTB i DONT WANT to come to live:

    • When a surviror, carrying a cursed tape, is hit by the Onryo with a basic attack, they gain a stack of condemned in the process. (This is a very bad and unhealthy change as many people have pointed out already. It actually makes slugging a survivor, letting them get picked up, tunneling them and downing them again pretty viable in mori'ing them relatively fast. If dropped from elevation without even having counterplay. With my changes suggested, the Onryo would have enough possiblilities to spread condemned via hooking and using projection to the right TV's, that this mechanic is absolutely not needed. )
    • Carrying a cursed tape no longer builds up condemned passively or via the Onryo projecting to a TV. (This is the second very bad change on the PTB. This change makes holding a tape more of a safety feature rather than a threat. Tapes should have the incentive to be delivered to the targed TV's as fast as possible. This change would negate this incentive making Sadako less powerful. However, the rate at which condemned is build up passively could be reduced)
    • The Onryo loses and can't enter chase while demanifested and cannot gain bloodlust while demanifested. (This change seems good on paper however hurts her more than it helps. First: if Sadako keeps the passive condemnation on a survivor through them carrying a tape, she HAS to be able to chase and enter chase while demanifested. Otherwise she could just tunnel a survivor to their TV and interrupt the survivor when they want to insert the tape. This would be the exact same, like when a pig right now decides to tunnel someone with an active reverse Beartrap while crouched. It basicly guarantees a kill. This is unhealthy on Pig and would be unhealthy on Sadako. Teh passive condemnation only stops while mid chase there for ehse has to be able to enter chase while demanifested. Second: The Onryo is still a 4.6 movement speed killer in chase, which is problematic on many maps and specific tiles. Therefore i do believe that she sadly needs bloodlust right now to keep up with survivors in chase.)

    This is all i can say.

    I wanted to post a picture of a little rotten - remains - Sadako - statue i built to motivate you all in giving your thoughts however i cant do this apparently.

    Therefore: im very interested in your ideas and your constructive feedback regarding the addons and the basekit suggestions.

    I will try to keep up with all ideas.

    Thank you very much for reading. <3"

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    There where tons of supportive and constructive people in this thread. Some of my ideas where heavily discussed and i changed my mind about some of them so take some aspects with a grain of salt. The general sentimen is the same though.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    You can bodyblock a survivro puitting in a tape. If played correctly, autoaim will always hit the bodyblocker.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    Again, if you lost the first tape already to an m1 and sadako decides to target you, you have physically no way to pick up a second one to begin with, because Sadako can prevent you from doing that.

    The only possible play against this playstyle is to be a sufficiently good looper to make it absolutely not worth it to commit to you while the rest of the team is doing gens, which tbh is fine for me cause she's literally just an m1 killer, but there's no way at all it's fair for a killer to be able to entirely bypass the hook mechanic against less consistent players in chase when the effort required to kill them isn't that much either

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    I also like the old one more. I never played the condemned playstile, because of this I hate the rework. I like the instant ability to tp around. Now every Tv is switched off, because of the tape rework. Before I could almost everytime tp where I wanted. Therefore I want the old version back without the focus ONLY on condemned. I‘m fine when the instant teleport stays and condemned gets buffed, but I want to decide how to play. Right now if you don‘t spam/force condemned, you lose and I don‘t like to have to play like that.

    Buffs and changes I would like:

    Tvs:

    No/very short tv cooldown, so that survivors have to interact with tapes if they don‘t want that the Onryo can tp to them all the time.

    The glitching in her ability should be more confusing and better. The pallet immunity should stay. When chasing someone in her ability chases count as chases, which made windows not block after jumping through a window. Also I would like her to have terror radius in her ability to make more jumpscares. I remember playing the first time against her, when I didn‘t knew from where she was coming and I only heard the radius out of nowhere, which made me run into her on lerry. At least the switching between her forms should be faster to get hits more consistent.

    Tapes: I would like them to stay like they were before the rework. I only do not like the current tapes, because the condemned counterplay passively switches off the TVs. I‘m open for ideas.

    Condemned ideas:

    The radius from the TVs increases a bit where you get condemned close to TVs. In the decreased area it‘s only a half stack condemned. Then in the regular radius from before one stack like before (I think it was one stack) and in a radius of 6m around TVs survivors get two stacks. Like in the movie, where you only got cursed when you watched it for that you needed to be close.

    Also if people are close to TVs they get a small amount of condemned if they are on.

    I don‘t want global condemned, because then there won’t be instant tp speed to TVs and then there have to be cooldowns on the TVs, which I don‘t want. For me it is important to teleport around much and use the TVs in chase, which is quite difficult right now. Also after crawling out of a tv there should be a speedbost. I don‘t know if the current one has that and if there is one, then it‘s very small.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Im not, in any way, defending current Sadako. I share your sentiment. I want her reverted.

    Basicly half of this post is me trying to point out the flaws of her rework to people that claim her to be in a good spot.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Reading my post from back then reminds me of something i can actually do now:


  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    Looks nice and the had looks a bit funny.

    You did a really good job.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,091
    edited November 2023
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    I don’t really have much issue with @radiantHero23 ’s two part suggestions in general.

    Just some thoughts on my preference of how Sadako should be.

    1) Teleport Condemned: Survivors within 16m of a powered TV receives 0.75 stack of Condemned when Sadako teleports. Survivors within 16m of Sadako after she completes her teleport animation receives 1 stack of Condemned.

    This change prevents the mindless teleport spam strategy. If Survivors take a tape from the tv to “secure” their area, they won’t be subjected to Global Condemn and Sadako players have to be more careful about spam teleporting to all of the televisions as the potential Condemnation range gets smaller with each tv powered off.

    2) Holding Tapes: Holding tapes does not prevent teleport Condemn. Survivors gain Condemn stacks passively over time while holding the tape. Survivors can only take tapes from powered tvs.

    This prevents Survivors holding on to tapes indefinitely to prevent gaining stacks.

    3) Depositing/tapes: Survivors can still deposit their tapes at any tv apart from the tv they retrieved the tape from but will also be given a prompt for a specific tv. Depositing their tape at a non prompted tv will give the other 3 Survivors one stack of Condemned. Doing so at the prompted tv removes this penalty.

    Survivors do not gain or lose Condemn stacks if they get hit while holding a tape. If a Survivor gets hooked while holding a tape, the tape is destroyed and the other 3 Survivors gain 1 stack of Condemned.

    The concept behind this is to let Survivors decide if they want to deposit their tape ASAP and give their teammates more Condemn stacks or make the extra distance to nullify this penalty. Giving other Survivors Condemn stacks upon hooking encourages Sadako players to not slug.

    That’s the main gist of how I would like the Condemn mechanic to be.

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    I like your ideas, I only hope that instant tps come back as this is my main problem with the current one and also the fact that survivors just disable all TVs, because of the condemned counterplay.

    I find it kinda funny that you could kill your teammates on purpose and making them a hard time.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    That are some great ideas.

    I feel like i heard them before in my original thread.

    Especially the all tv - part seems nice to me. It pushes real decisionmaking.

    Like it!!!

  • Wiccamanplays
    Wiccamanplays Member Posts: 130
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    Can OP explain why a reversion would be such a big improvement for Sadako when her old iteration was widely placed at the bottom of Killer tierlists next to Trapper and Myers? And that was when gen-kicking was good, unlike now.

    I learned to play DBD by playing a lot of old Sadako, by the logic of her being an M1 killer with beginner-friendly, decent perks (RIP CoB by the way) and once I got past about the 100 hour mark in playtime it got extremely difficult to get anything done. More experienced survivors could loop me easily without any anti-loop potential because her power got very little value in chase and I didn't have enough addons or perks to run her (to my mind extremely unsatisfying) condemned style of play. I contributed to the PTB feedback based on as much footage as I could watch at the time and the theoretical implications of the number changes to her kit, pointing out potential issues while generally believing the changes were in the right direction and maintained her identity. Even if she's not perfect now (global condemned spam is probably what they're going to change), I just like being able to play Sadako as a more cerebral killer without having to use an Iridescent addon to make her playable.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Please read the other posts above.

    I dislike to repeat myself.

  • Theuthis
    Theuthis Member Posts: 10
    edited November 2023
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    I'm skeptical until we see what the rework will actually entail. I was so disappointed when she got changed, they removed what made her unique and fun, while failing to address slugging and the changes only being a buff as long as one of the survivors doesn't understand that they should hold a tape at all times (which tbf happens almost every game). It doesn't make sense that you can hold onto a cursed tape for protection, it is completely backwards, the original approach was a lot more respectful of the source material.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,728
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  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,353
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    yes you grab a tape. what other aspect do you need to counter the mechanic? the mechanic being turned off encompass the entire chase gameplay for survivor. a large portion of the game is centers around stalling chases and chase survival. for a lot players, being good at the chase is huge summary of survivor's skill-level in the game. Now i am going to say that it is so black and white because i do think that generator efficiency and teamwork ethic at correct time play a part in survivor success but being good at the chase is a good portion of survivor skill in the game.

    if 3 gen is not effective anymore, then why they changing it? Why is coconut able to have 30+ minute games with singlurarity? Her old mechanic of 16 meter TV and generators by TV incentived gen-camping and 3 gen. I would imagine this being one of reasons for her changes. The other reason is that another method to corral survivors was to slug people next to TV's. Survivor dislike this gameplay and as result, ring drawing received a nerf.

    -Global condemn is unlikely to be reverted because of map dependency and incentives to slug/camp gens

    -Sadako losing chase looks like a normalization of wraith cloaking however i think her passive was meant to work like a passive ability for mindgames. I don't understand this change but it does enable her to use PWYF much easier.

    Tapes no longer giving passive condemn was a problem because it discouraged macro tape gameplay from sadako and also encouraged strange tunneling tactics. there is add-on called tape editing deck that makes you start with the tape. this add-on is what otz used to showcase how dangerous holding old tapes were. Like i said, you would proxy follow people with tape and when survivor tries using TV, you tp and interrupt them. break chase condemn build-up and so on. There is more skill in new sadako in managing tapes then this cheesy gameplay. If you like this type of gameplay, pig is good killer to learn for this gameplay.

    3 gen entire game to kick gens is one of least skillful tactics for killer. there was lack of skill and killer skill expression in manipulating condemn to the killer's advantage. As i said, corral tv was map based and the way fix the map was 3 gen and slug because slugging is another method for corralling. Slugging was not good for her because you need down people to slug and she is m1 killer with weak chase.

    Add-on pass did not need much because the add-on she had were really good. Not every killer needs to have 20 perfect add-on with same strength. Iri tape, remote control, ring drawing, bloody finger nails and new mother comb are perfect serviceable add-on's. Her invisibility was never strong for her. The number are too weak for anti-loop to function. It is like pig ambush dash problems. I think most of her add-on have good functionalities ideas but need to be expanded/buffed numerically for her to have a huge add-on variety set. Again, I do not know if this is good idea because Blight has a large variety of add-on that have high impact on the match and his add-on are listed to be nerfed.

    Current iri-tape is same functionality as old base-kit. It is very clear that you don't understand that a big part of Sadako identity is building condemn and mori'ing survivors. Slugging and 3 gen were just methods to corral. Now this is no longer needed because of global condemn.There is no real incentive to slug and 3 gen does not work because of new TV cooldowns. Her kit is anti 3 gen currently. You describe this as a problem is direct contradiction to saying Global condemn as a problem.

    Survivors being able to put tapes in every TV is drawback they put for weak survivors to not constantly die to condemn. It makes reverse condemn easier. Unfortunately, you cannot fix bad players in dbd. Bad players will still die to the mechanic regardless of hand-holding mechanics. They make too many gameplay mistakes. Dbd constantly try to balance for low-medium survivors in dbd. Not to talk too much about another killer named Trickster, balancing for low-medium players makes the game imbalanced for high-level survivors vs killer. I do not think this good mechanic however this mechanic is typical hand-holding survivor BVHR mechanic on the killer. This is one only mechanic I agree with you.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,353
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    there can be instant teleport with no cooldown and global condemn. you only have to add cooldown for condemn to be applied. I can agree with survivors turning off TV's as being too long. I think it is suppose to be an anti 3 gen mechanic so that sadako does not constantly teleport to same TV over and over to build up condemn. Now with tapes turning off mechanic, it does not have reason to exist. It is main purpose is to give sadako information that you pick-up a tape. 60 second is a lot of time to notice a tape pick-up. If they were improving TV TP flexibility, cooldown would need to be heavily reduced to something like 25-30 seconds.

    As I said though, I do not see them buffing sadako because she is a lot stronger then before. When I see Onryo on roadmap, I see it as Onryo received many negative changes to make less effective because of casual players struggling escape against her. So thinking about Teleport buffs and Phase-walk Anti-loop buffs are not something that I think the roadmap is referencing. I fully expect her to become another Freddy.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Hard disagree on some aspects you mention here.

    Please look up my Ptb feedback that I asked @Rizzo to send me again. I posted it above.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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    Im with you my man.

    Your day will come.

    The nightmare will end.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,238
    edited December 2023
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    Post edited by GeneralV on
  • CrossTheSholf
    CrossTheSholf Member Posts: 133
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    They gonna nerf her fr

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    I think if they make condemned have a cooldown, it will be more useless then the old one. I only hope the good changes/ buffs (tv cooldowns, pralltet immunity…) stay and I get my instant tp back with no cooldowns, for that the new tape must go. With the new tapes survivors deactivate all the TVs close to them, because it‘s the counter for condemned.

    I wrote a new comment in the feedback section and also others, if someone wants to join us there.

    I think this discussion has a bit too many text right now, no one new will read and instead just ignore what is written here.