Pig feedback/ideas

I WAS SUMMONED! 🐽

Disagree with some of them.

Pig might seem weak in some instances, but with enough experience, the traps become a lethal weapon that destroys survivors.

They should not be buffed in any way. They are the reason for Pig's consistent high kill rate

Now to Amanda herself.

The problem with her stealth is how slow she moves. This combined with huge maps makes stealth very unappealing. Right now the best option is to use the John's medical file because it elevates her to 100%. Making her stealth maybe a bit faster would be good and not problematic in any way in my opinion. It helps with chasing and getting a first hit.

The roar if that's what you mean, is fine in length. It is connected to the charge up of the ambush. A great idea is to put the ambush on the attack itself and not the charge up. This makes survivors a bit more oblivious to when the attack is gonna start and therefore will make them want to leave the loop a little less often.

The ambush should always be connected to being crouched. Everything else would be very inaccurate to her lore and her appearance in the movies. (including Saw x, which I was finally able to see!!!) I do t think she needs more stuff added to her kit, which is already pretty full.

I dont like adding a synergy with perks like huntress lullaby to the jigsaw boxes. Again, the traps are very lethal in the right hands. Making it even harder for beginner players is not the way to go. In addition to that, there are a lot of addons that would destroy survivors for missing one or two skill checks. Not a good idea.

Now to your opinion on the timer. IN NO WAY SHOULD THE TIMER BE INCREASED! This would make her a extremely lethal for all the WRONG reasons. The reverse bear trap is the strongest slowdown in dbd period. Nothing comes close. Understanding box Rng and how to harass survivors effectively makes head pop not as uncommon as you think. With the correct Rng (1-3-4-4) I get a head pop almost every time. The time is already very limited if you have 4 searches. Making it longer would mean almost certain death for the unlucky ones getting these traps. Reverse bear traps should NEVER give you kills for free. They should however enable kills if you as the pig work for it and harass survivors.

I would even recommend a nerf to the reverse bear traps that will make them a lot weaker but in a fair way.

Survivors are no longer able to die while searching a jigsaw box.

This seems small, but would have a huge impact to the kill pressure of the reverse bear trap. There are several addons that make searching a box difficult for people that have problems with skill checks. There are also addons (gears) that make searching a box take a lot longer. With some combinations (double gears) (crate of gears + tempered timer) and a little interruption on a survivor having a 4 - search trap will GUARANTEE that this survivor dies. I'm not joking. I played her enough to know. Making it that a survivor cannot die of they are working on a jigsaw box (timer runs out but you won't die if your working on it) will make this problem less extreme. The survivor should however immediately die if the timer runs out and the search doesn't lead to the trap coming off.

Im neutral to the idea of the ambush being longer the longer you crouch. At most tiles, Amanda goes into her stealth, charges the ambush and attacks. This would mean that there is effectively no longer distance. It is already way better to stealth up to a survivor, uncrouch and hit them with m1 for Stbfl stacks. I don't think this would improve her performance that much, but it would also not make her weaker.

Same with ambush out of a locker. It would never be something you use in a match due to the time lost. Pig already struggles with huge maps. Incentivising her to stay in one spot to surprise a survivor will make her lose a ton of time, making it not worth it at all. Again, it would not nerf her, but it would not really buff her either. Same thing with dredge, who can enter lockers to surprise survivors. Its never useful.

What should she get to make her more effektive?

Faster crouch movement speed base

Faster ambuch charge up base.

Faster ambush dash speed.

Longer ambush dash speed.

(Maybe) the roar on the ambush not the charge up.

That's all. It will improve her chase a lot and not make her too oppressive in regard to her slowdown.

The lore is never a good reason to keep things that are bad design, and I think the dash while standing would be a nice element to her kit.

No it wouldn't be.

First: Pig is not badly designed.

Second: this game is based around icons of horror. If the character from the franchise you enjoy doesn't fit in gameplay, the character will not be liked.

If Myers would have a rifle to shoot survivors, it wouldn't be Myers.

The Pig in the movies ambushes their test subjects when they least expect it out of the shadows. She doesn't just run at them when they know she's there.

Crouch into dash if fine.

The playability is still more important than the lore in the sense that a character that does not feel good to play cannot be saved by the great lore and how accurate it is. However a character the feels good to play can be loved by players who love the character as well as those who just play him because he is nice to play.

I didn't necessarily say she is badly designed, her addon design is for sure because they mostly revolve around the bear traps which is the most boring part of her kit since you cannot really do a skill full play with them, unlike the the dash.

Great so when you use the dash around a small object when already in chase the survivors suddenly don't know you are there anymore? See that's the point where I think to be accurate towards the lore is not that important.

The bear traps are what sets her apart. That's her main focus.

She's the saw killer. Otherwise she could very well be any other stealth killer that surprises you.

The traps should be lethal. Otherwise there is no pressure. Also... The addons aren't even the worst part. If you get the correct Rng, you can get head pops very consistently. However, you as the killer has to work for it and use strategy and map awareness to harass effectively.

The traps are what makes her unique. She's the only killer that you can passively die to. And that's great. Not every killer has to focus on mechanical skill.

The game needs to have variety in killer design to have something for everyone.

The traps are the most boring part of her power, because aside from getting a down or putting them on you are not really doing something with them, you don't need to be skillfully to get value out of them, the killer does not really play differently if they have traps or not, only if you want to get rid of someone with a trap, and even then the gameplay does not really change compared to a normal chase unless you crouch follow.

See that's where I think it is terrible design, why would the main focus of a playable character be a thing that allows very little interaction instead of a mechanic you can learn and master to get some crazy hits? That's just awfully Boring...

So you think it is great design if someone just dies because you brought addons and they are on a large map and got unlucky with RNG? Like why even? You did not do anything special to achieve that, the guy won't be like oh I got totally outplayed, you just get a passive kill for doing nothing, that's just the most boring stuff ever, if you make great plays you will eventually get rewarded for them, but just getting a free kill without doing anything for it just because you brought addons and got lucky is just stupid.

Nobody says Pig is supposed to be as demanding as Hillbilly or Blight and require that amount of skill to use her power, but there are such cool things you could pull off or were able to in the past, if you look at some of Scorpionz old videos of what great plays were possible, that's something I would like to have back, a dash that is usable and allows for skill expression.

If you don't want to learn mechanical skill sure just don't use it and play as an m1 killer with lethal game delay, but I don't see a reason not to give her more strength in her chase. Especially if it still allows counterplay, because this kind of killer specific chase mechanics is what makes the game great.

I think this is by far the best nerf, if any has to happen. I agree, that it would be sad, but increasing the timer is bad and nerfing the addons would not help due to the (not so) rare occurring (1-3-4-4) Rng being the true problem of the traps lethality.

Changing the Rng would probably lead to a lot of other problems. I like the Rng that exists right now.

If this would be the nerf, the traps could in addition to finishing gens be activated by a survivor touching the exit gate lever, reanimating end game pig back from the grave of old playstyles.

These are however all smaller changes. Our lady is greatly designed and should not be changed too much. 🐽

Great suggestions. I still think that the better way to nerf the traps without making a headpop impossible, is to make survivors not being able to die while working on a box.

Making survivors not lose box progress makes interrupting as a Pig impossible. Harassing survivors should stay a thing.

It is easy, if you know what you have to do.

I literally get a head pop at least every third game. Sometimes even two.

I dont use any trap related addons. Only John's medical file and combat straps.

You don't see the whole picture.

Pig is a special cookie. If you only buff her chase potential, she could literally become too opressive due to her build in slowdown. I'm not joking. The slowdown is already too much to handle for a lot of weaker survivors and also some higher skilled soloq teams. That's why the slowdown and her chase have to be balanced accordingly to one aspect getting stronger. Right now, she's balanced due to steong slowdown and weak chase. It works.

Huntress lullaby is a noob stomper perk. It's really bad but that's why the devs don't buff it. It's a really mean perk for newer players and these shouldn't be punished harder than experienced players. Buffing it to have synergy with pig (Was a thing once and got removed) would ONLY punish newer or casual players. This is a bad idea.

You dont get it.

First to the ambush. Invisible walls also punish Billy and Demo. Pig is just another one. This is not a Pig problem. It's a map problem. Survivors getting better means, that you have to get better. Incoming: the moondash. I can outplay a ton of tiles with it. My personal favorite being the busted car park on garden of joy.

Now to the traps. What can you do in dbd? You can harass players searching boxes and interrupt them. This is Amanda rigging their test for her personal agenda. This is subtle but wonderful adaption of the source material and probably why John Kramer will never get added to dbd without giving survivors God mode while removing traps.

You never kill survivors outright passively. Only some addons can do that on some maps. But that's more of an map problem. I want to stress that I absolutely dislike the idea of a survivor just dying passively without any work from the killers side.

Luckily this is not the case with pig. As OP has mentioned, the traps come off almost always on their own. This is intended I feel like. The traps should only become extremely lethal if the pig player interrupts and harasses survivors effectively. This is how I get my head pops on a dayly basis. I monitor the map, pin point the Rng and plan out the survivors path of searching all whole chasing someone else at the same time. Then when the time is right, I go to the correct place at the correct time and harass that survivor. Some perks can make this a lot easier. Bbq is the best for this, so you don't have to remember survivor movement that much. But in the last weeks I felt that I grew too reliant in it and played with Stbfl only. I won a majority of my matches. Not against weak survivors I like to add.

The traps are the strategic part of her kit, that can be lethal if USED correctly. The ambush is the mechanical part of her power that is supposed to help her apply those traps. Its still extremely good at a lot of loops if the player know the structures and how to use it effectively. I know almost all loops and how to use the ambush at them. Again, I played her enough.

You know blights hug tech?

I mean only if they don't just leave the loop, because it is the most basic easiest thing to do against pigs ambush... That's somewhat similar to Billy, sure he can curve you, but only if you let him and don't just predropp/run towards the next tile.

Thas why i use johns medical file and combat straps every game. If they leave, they give me a free hit due to em uncrouching this fast. I force them to play my game. I weaponized the running away.

Pig still cant do anything against pre dropping. Thats why many players suggest that she should be able to break pallets with the ambush. Im not against that.

Unless there are connected tiles, which is more often than not the case, if you pre drop and position yourself properly there is very little you can do to still get the hit, if you sit right next to the pallet being able to be forced to vault it constantly sure you can something, but good survivors tend to not be in that situstion

You still dont get it.

Only Amanda and Hoffmann rigged their trials. Therefore Amanda is fine how she is to interact with survivors. If the killer where John, it would not make sense fie him to interact with survivors during the test. It happens often in the movies, that the jigsaw killer is directly present during a game, but only to see if the rules are followed. They do interact with the test subjects. An example would be John shocking Gordon and Adam in saw 1. But rigging is limited to Amanda and Hoffmann. Or course they can interact with survivors.

Now to the traps. Did I not say that I would nerf the traps? Making a survivor unable to die while searching the box is a huge nerf to the pigs head pop potential. I'm all for nerfing the problematic addons as well. I dont use them. I get my head pops without them. Why? Because I understand the Rng and how to play around it.

Now to the next part. You say that playing around the traps means that you chase them crouched to get easy head pops correct?

Wrong, this is immensely time innefficient. I already stated how I play around traps above. I memorize where I hook survivors, then predict their route and count the time they needed already. Then I make a guess where they are and what is the final box they will check. Then I push them off. Is there no counterplay at this point anymore? Yes. The survivor lost. But let me ask you something. If their pathing is this easy to predict and I know how much searches they need (something that the survivors can know as well by paying attention), haven't they played badly? They already made their misplay. They made themselves too predictable. I had plenty of survivors that changed up their pathing to confuse me. Another thing a survivor can do is (and this sounds dumb) be good in chase. The pigs chase is very bad. She's an m1 killer with a situational chasing power. I've had plenty of teams that did 2,3 and rarely (map depended) even 4 gens before I got my first down. Playing around traps at this point becomes extremely hard to pull off if not impossible.

To the ambush. I think I can't convince you of how good the moondash is without video material. Sadly I can't offer you that. The Pigs model, during this move, doesn't change direction. It still looks like you go in the original direction. Positioning is key here. You need to know the max distance of the ambush and the speed difference between you and the survivor. If you position yourself and execute the moondash correctly, you will get the hit 90% of the time if the loop allows it. I can assure you, that loopslike the car park at garden of joy, the car loops on Haddonfield and Badham and even 4 lane walls can be outplayed with this move. I have very consistent results using it. All under assumption, that the survivor doesn't just pre drop the pallet. Then I'm an m1 killer.

I don't really know which killer that has an even decent chase power is supposed to be outclassed by Pig in the sense that there are loops she can get a hit around but he cannot... But feel free to tell me, maybe Freddy? But is chase is terrible anyway, and I would say Clowns chase is way better than pigs.

Ok my man so here you state they never interact with their test subjects directly, even Amanda/the pig not...

Then here you tell me it is fine, can you for once decide? It is a difference between rigging the thing and interacting with people... If you say it is allowed to interact with, which is apparently not a thing in the movies then how exactly would it be an issue to have a dash that is not from crouching? Your argument was basically they only attacked from an unseen angle, however when you dash at someone at a loop you already know the killer is there, so this is already not the same, which is fine because it is a game and not the movie. But then you cannot bring this up for the standing dash, because if you already know the pig is there, and you can probably even somewhat tell where exactly then why is it that much a problem when she does the dash while standing?

No I don't necessarily mean that is the only way to get the head pops or interrupt them, but it is one possible way of doing it, while not directly interacting with them, I just tried to go along your point there of no interaction between Amanda and the survivor during the trial. If you just chase them normally and hook them again, maybe even bringing them further away from the boxes they did not search yet the value of interrupting them is not necessarily so high.

That completely depends on where and how the boxes spawn, the issue is depending on map you cannot really go out of your way to do the boxes in a different order just so to not be predictable, because it would waste so much time you might die from the beartraps... So it is not necessarily on them.

Yeah she has a bad chase power indeed, which is exactly why I would want to make the dash more usefull and nerf the traps if needed, because the interactive and fun part of playing killer, the chase, should be the main focus.

I don't need footage of how the moon dash looks like, it is reall not hard to pull off from a mechanical standpoint, getting a hit with it is however, especially if the survivor has line of side, and if the survivor is patient and knows what they are doing then you will sure as hell not get an easy hit on them just because your dash goes in the other direction.

The point is if the survivor plays the most effective way he will just deny you the usage of your power, which once again goes to show that her chase is awfull. He basically needs to allow you the chance of getting a hit on him for you to be able to do something, and that is once again terrible design.