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Perks have no effect unless they are equipped.

User:

3 gens provides countermeasures with perks such as Deja Vu, right? Do you feel like the perk adjustments weren't very effective?

DeadbyBHVR_JP:

Perks have no effect unless they are equipped, and since the Killer only focuses on guarding the three generators without attacking, continuously guarding them can prolong the match significantly. Therefore, the system will take measures to address this. We aim to make it something that does not affect normal gameplay. Details will be announced at a later date!

https://x.com/DeadbyBHVR_JP/status/1729557084629258280?s=20

This is a post from the official DBD Japan X account. (Translated using ChatGPT, so it might be a bit paraphrased.)

Putting aside the question of whether changes should be made to the 3 gens solution, I don't understand the intended meaning of the statement, "Perks have no effect unless they are equipped." It's obvious that perks won't activate unless they are equipped. Is there anyone who can provide more details about what he meant when he said, "Perks have no effect unless they are equipped."?

Comments

  • What I mean is that it's natural for perks to have no effect unless equipped, and bringing anti-3-gen perks like Deja Vu is a survivor's choice. Now, even SM has been adjusted to not easily become a 3-gen, and I always bring Deja Vu when playing solo Q. BHVR said "DBD is a game of choices." Why make everything a base kit without differentiation in choices?

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    This should be BHVR's stance on everything. So many issues in DBD have been 'fixed' by adding perks to help deal with them, but you shouldn't -have- to run specific perks to be able to deal with problems in the game's design. Exactly like this example.

    Also Deja Vu doesn't help against a killer who has picked out a 3 gen at the game's start and never leaves, it only helps against a survivor-made 3-gen.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526

    What is crawl leave and light pt? lmao


    Hook destruction is almost a non-issue because you can just bleed someone out if you really have to, you'd have to explain these new made up things, unless crawl leave is... survivors crawling away because you've decided to slug, or do you mean "heal teching" where a survivor heals another survivor as they're crawling out the gate to prevent pick-up? If so, sure let killers override the healing action in the exit gate area.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,128
    edited November 2023

    I’m just quoting the sentiments shared in the comments so I’m not the one you have to convince that these are two different things lol.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,391

    Because boons have built-in counterplay. Shattered hope is just the nuke button.

    It's like facing a wall when picking up vs. Lightborn. One of the two just deletes the mechanic entirely, but it has innate counters.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    Regression perks are much more numerous and common than Boons, also you literally don't need perks to pick 3 gens and patrol them the entire game.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    you need to have like 2 distortion users on your team to not be able to break a 3 gen against a killer without slowdown perk(s). tbf i have no relevant arguments here just pointed out 3 genning is bound to perks; many survivor perks are counters to killer gameplay choices like slugging tunnelling 3 genning and camping, so.

  • UnusedAccount
    UnusedAccount Member Posts: 130

    Most Survivors can't seem to navigate maps without WoO either. I hate to say they're being dumbed down but when you're most popular perk is a handicap...

  • If BHVR are will Implement this solution, I think you must be careful Hug ,Trapper or Demo things like that.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,662

    It's more likely they're trying to get on top of future problems rather than past ones. One of the most common killer requests is that maps be smaller, which BHVR seem to be taking into account with recent reworks. A consequence of this is that gens will naturally spawn closer together and opportunities to set up 3 gens from the start will be something alot of killers naturally fall into. Deja Vu shouldn't have to become a prerequisite to a game.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,420

    Reading someones aura isn't something that can cause the game to go into stalemate, and it doesn't remove all options available to the survivor.

    Tunneling off the hook used to be an entirely uncounterable tactic, forcing BT to be used in every build, resulting in survivors getting chastised if they didn't run it. So it was made basekit.

    3 gens can be a game breaking problem as we saw with Chess Merchant. Deja Vu helps with it, but it can't be solely relied upon.

    Without a similar basekit safety net for 3 gens, (that can break a stalemate without just handing the win to survivors) there's always going to be the opportunity for another Chess Merchant.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,824

    that response makes no sense. it is like they do not understand the problem. Deja vu is not effective at breaking 3 gens because the issue is not how fast player does gens. it is ability to work generators. when 3 gen are very close together, the killer is able to constantly push survivors off generators making the player unable to work on generators. this makes regression default kicking of gens far more effective because killer can outpace or at best slowdown the survivors generator progress for prologue period of time.

    when generator are spread out, the killer is unable to push survivors off generators because walking time between each generator is too long. this makes kicking gens unrewarding as survivor outpaces progression by huge margin. killer need much stronger gen regression at base but there needs to some sort of limit towards regression so that the matches can end before 20 minutes. matches should not go past 20 minutes.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,821

    Because the game shouldn't be decided by random guessing.

    Killer camping? Did someone remember to bring Reassurance?

    Killer 3 genning? Did someone bring potential energy/deja vu?

    Killer slugging? Sure hope you have unbreakable equipped.

    Killer finding everyone with ultimate weapon? Should have run calm spirit.

    Killer on hex build? Why aren't you running counterforce?

    Killer tunneling you out? You should have run off the record and decisive strike.

    It's bad game design. If the killer have strategies that need to be countered by perks or else the survivors lose, the game comes down to whether the survivors guessed right in their perk selection. This especially becomes problematic when you look at soloq and having no idea whether you should be the anti-tunneler or anti-camper.

    Perks should give advantages, but whether you have a perk or not should not decide the game. Some of the above list are absolutely fine, as Seraphor already mentioned most of these don't break the game. You can still deal with a killer who has aura reading if you don't have distortion, and a killer can still deal with a survivor if they do have distortion, it just creates an advantage.

    Compare this to 3 genning. In games were the survivors happen to have potential energy, they win easily. If they don't, it's a slog. The perk doesn't give an advantage, it decides the game.

  • pale_hispanic
    pale_hispanic Member Posts: 149

    You don’t need perks to counter half the things you just said.

  • pale_hispanic
    pale_hispanic Member Posts: 149

    3-genning is very different from any of that tho. Scream/ Hex/ Aura perks are limited and have base game ways to play around. Once a 3-gen is set up, and if survivors aren’t running Prove Thyself or Deju Vu, then the game dissolves into a war of attrition.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,821

    Which I noted in the post (quote: "Some of the above list are absolutely fine, as Seraphor already mentioned most of these don't break the game."). But it goes to show the amount of things survivors are expected to predict making the chance they're going to predict something like 3 genning very low.

  • pale_hispanic
    pale_hispanic Member Posts: 149

    My bad I didn’t fully read your post before commenting. You’re right tho there is just too much things to counter to focus on bringing mediocre anti-3gen perks

  • RoastedGarlic
    RoastedGarlic Member Posts: 592

    some maps have 4 gens too. how bad gen placement rng can be is one of this games worst issues.

  • HandsomeJack_049
    HandsomeJack_049 Member Posts: 136

    I think part of the problem with conversations around this topic is that a balanced solution rarely comes at the same time. BHVR makes an adjustment one way and it takes time for them to find the appropriate balance to bring up the otherside to compensate. It eventually happens, but in the mean time, one side has to deal with added features that benefit their opposition. For example, over the course of 2023, survivors have gotten the visual terror radius (a QOL addition that can be used for non QOL purposes to enhance gameplay against the TR of killers) as well as the UI Hud (which eliminates a large portion of the information gap beween solo Q and SWF), and the anti-face camping feature (which was more to address a largely unpopular playstyle - that the majority of either side disliked). In return, in 2024 killer will be getting a FOV slider (another QOL addition that will likely also be used for the benefit of gameplay elements by reducing the ability of survivors to perfom certain techs and immerse/stealth themselves.)

    Another issue is a very human one, neither side wants nerfs/adjustments without the other side also getting hit - its a very common reaction. Look at any conversation around balance in the DBD community and you will almost always see arguments about "Well if X is getting nerfed then Y also needs to be nerfed." Likewise, neither side wants the other side getting buffs. When the UI hud news was released a portion of the killer community was firmly against it - saying that it ruined the fog of war element of DBD (even though many of those same people agreed that solo q was in a much worse state compared to SWF at the time.) Likewise, I suspect a similar conversation will appear once the FOV slider is introduced.

    At the end of the day we have to have some degree of faith that BHVR knows what they are doing.

  • lifestylee
    lifestylee Member Posts: 262

    I really dont think 3 genning is an issue anymore, maybe during gen kick i could see it but not now.