The Pigs timer when chasing you in stealth should be paused.

Exactly. It's crazy how bad it is in comparison to Chucky's for instance. Hope they push her power to be useful in chase and then they can make her traps weaker and be just gimmicky instead of "me follows survivor with trap in their head me gets guaranteed kill". I don't remember the last time I have not seen a Pig getting 1 if not 2 kills just by using deadlock and NWO because it's a 2K guaranteed thanks to passive slowdown, trap killing the survivor guaranteed and then just camping in end game because what else is there to be done. Just boring to play as and against and needs to be looked into.

I have some bad news for you, Pig is getting buffed in the march updated :D

She's in 2024 roadmap, they are gonna nerf her, just wait and relax

I agree that an otherwise mediocore killer should not get a pass on unhealthy mechanics to "make up for it".

Given e.g. Face the Darkness it becomes quite impossible to remove traps quite easily. Especially when paired with Thrill of the Hunt. Nearly no effort on Piggy's part required to get headpops. (It's incredibly boring to play that way, imo, but it's not like I can keep people from doing it.)

Lol...

The searches of the traps are regulated via a random number generator, Rng for short.

How much searches you have to do is literally Rng. The Pig has no control about that. She can however use it to her advantage.

Also, Pig cannot see your trap timer. She can see when the trap becomes active (which is right after a gen pops, she wouldn't even need the HUD indicator) and when a trap gets removed, but the timer is hidden exactly to prevent that kind of targeting

You say "Pig speed does not make a difference when in stealth because your timer is still continuing" and then follow it with "She can let the timer continue by following you in stealth while still chasing you".

So, what is it? I say that Pig is not fast enough to chase a survivor while crouching, you say speed is not important and then "she can follow you in stealth". No, she can't. Because of that same speed that is seemingly not important. And the timer continuing is not a problem if she tries chasing you while crouching, because she cannot keep up with you lol. And if she happened to be around the area in which you just arrived - she still needs to get up (and that pauses the timer) to have a chance to keep up in chase.

"she obviously knows your location"

??? How? You keep saying this but you don't explain what you mean with that. Pig players are not omniscient, and if they know your location they've either heard/seen you, they got aura perk value or you failed a skill check. And in any of these cases it's not obvious that a Pig always knows where you are, as you said.

"Her version of "body blocking" atm is grabbing you off the trap after counting down the timer just before you finish the trap with extended timer addons"

Again, Pig players don't see the timer for active traps; to count down the timer they'd have to manually focus on counting one trap's timer at a time specifically (and they'd probably play really badly in the meantime, hard to chase and loop while counting like that lol) and they don't know when a trap will be removed / which box will remove it. When you play Pig, even if you bring the meanest box add-ons, you might see one or two traps get off after one or two box searches and you can't do anything about it. There's no way for Pig to know when a trap will go off / be removed.

No need for the caps lock - you have repeated some factually wrong things, such as claiming that the Pig player can see the trap timer and automatically know your location at all times. Of course I'm going to ask for clarifications, as a lot of the things you say make it seem as you don't know how her kit works. I'm also repeating a lot of my points ad nauseam by the way

Amanda's main arc in the films is that she's an addict who traded drugs for obsessing over John. She does not actually care about his legacy and fundamentally did not understand the purpose of his tests which is displayed by the fact that every single test she personally setup was impossible to survive. This is even something John figured out about her and on his deathbed essentially placed her in another test without her knowing to see if she could actually stop cheating. She fails and gets shot as a result of not changing her ways and robbing others of their chance to learn from the tests.

She gets the beartrap as her power because it's the most significant test to her as it was originally the test she had pass which led her to become one of the apprentices.

If the killer is in stealth, she's too slow to keep up with a survivor, and in order to get a hit in she has to either get up (currently takes a lot of time, will then start chase and pause the timer) or go for an ambush (a dash that is much easier to avoid, you get an audio cue that it's going to happen as soon as Pig starts charging it)

Her crouching speed and Ambush attack in general need some buffs; I think it would be cool if they made her faster while crouched + found a way to make the timer pause when she's X meters close to a trapped survivor (but I believe this should take into account the presence of other survivors in that radius; a SWF with comms could direct chases next to trapped survivors to give them more time to take the trap off).

But yeah, in her current state she absolutely cannot keep up with a survivor while crouched

If piggy chases you with a trap, the others can do gens and the killer gets 0 value out of the trap. The timer is 2:30, so plenty gens should get done.

I see, the thing is

• My previous comments didn't mention SWF scenarios or communication tactics, so whether it's SoloQ or not is unrelated to them; the one time I brought up SWFs was in relation to the suggestion of a mechanic that is not in the game (at least not yet), and in that part I was simply saying that an eventual timer-pausing-next-to-crouched-Pig should account for other survivors being around, just like the anti-facecamp mechanic currently does

• I mean that's cool, I just said that failing a box skill check is one of the things that can alert Pig of your presence. I never implied you're failing all your skill checks - just that, if it's true that the Pig you played against always knew where you were, it was either because of one of those 3 reasons, or pure luck or cheats. You could have gone against a full aura-reading build Pig for all I know.

• I didn't call your reasoning factually wrong, what I called factually wrong was "she can see your timer" (which is factually wrong, she doesn't see the clock progressing, aka the timer) and taking for granted that she always knows your location (she can't, and even with a good guess she can still screw up). I understand if you meant "she can see that the trap is active", but that is an entirely different sentence, so obviously people will take what you said literally and assume you think she can really see the timer.

"The survivor on the other hand has the following constraints:

Has to remove the trap in a very tight timeframe and reach all 5 boxes if RNG is not on their side"

That cannot happen; even in the worst case scenario of bad RNG, your trap automatically gets removed after your 4th box search, so you'll never have to do more than 4 box searches.

"Usually by this point a gen is almost done and will be popped just as a trap is placed on your head after prolonging a chase as long as you can, depending on how bad the loops in an area are, so you haven't got any trap boxes done yet but your trap timer has instantly become active"

I hate to be that guy, but what other people in the thread are saying is true - that is a bit of a "your teammates are screwing you over" scenario; the HUD already communicates everything the other survivors need to know (a teammate just went down during a Pig match; a trap might be put on them) so it's less a problem of communication and more a problem of them not knowing how the killer works (which could be partially solved with more detailed and frequent loading screen tips btw, I unironically believe the abysmal "amount of complicated killer powers" / "quantity and quality of tutorial and info" ratio of the game is one of its worst problems and the main cause of the so-called "lobby stomper" killers being a thing) or carelessness from your teammates' side - and it sucks when you have to pay for their mistakes (just like when you get that default Meg that goes to cleanse every time she touches Plague's vomit, constantly gifting her free power and dooming the entire team) but ultimately it's the risk of playing in a team game where effort from the entire team is needed to win. And even though this definitely happens (happened to me a bunch too!), getting a trap put on and a gen getting completed right after you is still very situational, definitely not that common to happen every time, and it solely depends on the people working on the gen, not the Pig. Preventing it requires the same method you'd use to prevent Pain Resonance from making you scream (leave the gen for like, 5 seconds and look at the HUD), except you don't always know whether Pain Res is at play or not, but you always know a Pig is most likely going to use a trap after a down.

"Experienced Pig killer mains clearly understand the trap is oppressive so they'd add major delay addons to trap removal (can be up to 16s per box)"

The traps are the most oppressive part of her entire kit, but I'd say it's more out of Crouch and Ambush ranging from useless to very situational rather than traps being OP. Buffing the other parts of her kit and nerfing bullshit synergies (scream perks resetting boxes) would definitely popularize new Pig playstyles and thus new add-on combinations and remove unfun plays.

"Has to traverse the map in general, avoiding the killer as best as they can"

I mean yeah, but the killer (who has no mobility) also has to do the same, also assuming she's going to completely ignore all of the other survivors and gens in general that she might see during her patrol (which would put it under the case of hard tunneling, again). Complaining about Box spawns is totally valid by the way, but that is something that would be better solved by improving the spawns rather than nerfing the traps themselves.

"trap removal auras being shown to the killer (this is what I mean by they know your location)"

? That doesn't happen unless they're just using an unrelated aura-reading perk like BBQ or Floods of Rage. Are you talking about the Amanda's Secret add-on? If that's the case, the aura-reading happens after a trap is successfully removed, not during box searches in general (unless the add-on is currently bugged?) so you wouldn't experience getting targeted while having a trap on. But in either case, a Pig with that add-on can't see Jigsaw Boxes' auras, so either hard tunneling or lucky guesses are still needed to be close enough to a survivor to get value out of the aura-reading.

The thing about Pig knowing your position because of you having to do boxes still depends on them either using info perks, being lucky or doing a good job guessing - Pig players can't see how many boxes you've currently tried (so even if mentally they know, let's say, the timer is about halfway through, they have no way of knowing whether you already tried 3 boxes or you didn't try yet. Unless they've seen you, they've been following you around ignoring everybody else thus tunneling etc. etc. they can't know where you've been so far and where you are now.

As I said earlier, I'm all for BHVR taking a look at killer object spawns (so including Sadako's TVs, Plague's fountains etc.) because if I recall correctly they all share same or similar spawn points and they all have similar problems, whether it's some of them being too close to each other or, in the case of TVs and fountains, Chest offerings affecting their spawns in certain maps like Swamp. But this problem would be better solved by fixing these spawn points, not just nerfing her traps as a whole.

That aside, I can't help but notice we're always talking about the worst case scenario possible during this conversation. We're assuming the survivor will need to do 4 searches to free themselves (and that can't happen more than once per trial if I recall correctly), that Pig has a full on headpop build, that teammates are not paying attention to it at all and that the killer has enough awareness and luck to intercept the trapped survivor often. In that case, then I'm sorry but there's nothing wrong with the headpop death happening. Traps are based on (fixed) RNG, which means sometimes they might still end up activating. It would be a problem if it were to happen too often and with little to no counterplay, but I'd argue that us being here and discussing the worst possible scenario where the killer side is doing everything to make it happen and is lucky and the survivor side (your teammates) are not paying attention to it at all is already a sign that it's mostly balanced. It'd be a big problem if headpops happened all the time, to most survivors and ignoring every possible counterplay from the team. But this doesn't happen, the majority of traps still get removed after 1-2 searches and the conversations we're having are based on the premise the the survivor side is making a bunch of mistakes mixed with constant bad luck (epic bad luck, to stay on the topic of Saw)