The Trickster Feedback
Comments
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Bvhr tried standard him as ranged killer with huntress. since huntress has lullaby, they put one for him. I think lullaby in general are bad design because they discourage the player from using terror radius perks. It is just another mechanic to over-balance killers and restrict their gameplay choices.
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I'm sure this is the reason but that reasoning is stupid. Huntress has a lullaby because surprise hatchet from 35m away getting an injury or down is a thing. I suppose a surprise knife from 35m can happen... but it won't accomplish anything unless 5/7 more land... at which point it isn't a surprise.
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As I'm a Korean User, I ask and suggest to dbd team.
This will boost The Trickster's tricky potential and suppplement the drawback of the present Trickster.
- Why remove the throwing speed-up effect? The Trickster's merit is high-tempo and high-potential of showstopper. So I suggest the alternative of this: Throwing speed is increased start with throwing the 4th blade.
- The combo is very inefficient about the main-event time increasing. So I suggest E:+0.5sec, D:+1.2sec, C: +2.5sec, B:+3.2sec, A:+4.3sec, S:+5sec (Buff)
- The main event is very inefficient in game. So I suggest main-event duration increased 5sec to 8sec.(Buff)
- The Trickster's thorw rate to 3.5 blades per second. This will escape the stuffy of The Trickster's funny factor.(Buff)
- Add-on adjust ㆍDeath Thores Compilation: During main-event, The Trickster's throwing speed is increased by 50% / When the main-event finished, The half of Trickster's Blades are automatically recharged.(New functionality) - This ability will increase The Trickster's strength. And Survivors will be hard to escape the fear of The Trickster.
- Add-on adjust ㆍIridescent Photocard: For each consecutive Blade hit, gain a stackable 1% Haste status effect, up to a maximum of 7%. This bonus is lost when missing a Blade but when injuring by shostopper, The Trickster gains 5% Haste status effect for 4sec.(Adjust) - I think when missing a Blade The Trickster lose the Haste effect is great, but when injuring the survivor The Trickster needs benefit for that.
- Add-on adjust ㆍLucky Blade: When The Trickster injured the survivors to critical, The Trickster gains 1% Haste status effect for random duration times. (15sec: 44%, 25sec: 36%, 30sec: 20%) - I want all of users use The Trickster's add-on variously, So I changed the effect of Lucky Blade in accordance with it's name.
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Why not take advantage of Ji-Woon Hak characteristic as a musician, and give Trickster a unique advantage of having "Superior Hearing”?
I mean, that compared to other killers, he can hear various sounds from distant survivors, also is less likely to miss sounds from nearby survivors.
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As much as I thought that this could actually be cool, as inpractical it gets. You'd need to have some sort of indication of "near" or "far away" sounds, on headphones I could imagine this works, but there are also people playing on console with (TV) speakers or heck, even I sometimes, when I just want to try something real quick play on my 5.1 system instead of headphones.
Also it would be really confusing for new players to pick him up.
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Once Plague's vomit comes into contact with you, you will be injured and can only recover from the spring. Why does Trista's knife return to empty health in 10 seconds? Moreover, if you don't hit the 8 slow speed balls, you won't get hurt.
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It feels strange to me that even if you struggle with 7 knives, you will return to a healthy survivor 10 seconds later without receiving any debuffs.
Also, the current main event is pretty much garbage, so it's not worth saving up for the main event.
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Trickster is an attacking killer with a knife. The purpose of making Trickster at first was to attack with a knife. But now, Trickster is often more convenient to catch as a basic attack than a knife attack because of your weird patch. Trickster back in 4.4 days, but it was easier to hold with a knife than it is now. I'm sure you made it to kill with a knife, but why would you use that ability to nerf? Does this make sense? You said the intention was to catch it with a knife, but why did you make it little different from the basic attack? I can't understand.
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Because of the hype and Youtubers sensationalizing PTB Trickster, people who just picked up Trickster and are in low MMR are suggesting more nerfs... So many people who have never touched Trickster, are calling for more nerfs.... Twitter is a buzz with misinformation once more... And I bet anything BHVR will listen to them. Not the people who actually play Trickster. This update has killed this character. There is no rewarding feeling for playing him like 4.4 Trickster had...
Trickster is so misunderstood by people who dont play him, and BHVR refuses to listen to people who have mastered him. I just cant. I havent been this disappointed in a game company since EA dropped the ball on Battlefront 2.
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35 meter hatchets still happen regardless of lullaby or not. lullaby is specifically there to discourage people to run undetectable. The other goal is to make it less effective. undetectable still works on lullaby killers... like people have done Wooden fox Huntress on indoor maps like RPD but for open maps, no serious killer player runs undetectable on lullaby killers...
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Of every post here, I hope this is the one they follow. Great job.
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The worst thing about these youtubers is that in order to increase their viewership, they make a fuss about something even though it's not even a problem, stirring up anxiety and conflict among their viewers.
Moreover, since they take no responsibility at all, they are nothing but evil.
To begin with, Trickstar wasn't very strong at the time of PTB except for ultra rare add-ons.
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To add to this BHVR, a lot of people, including myself, play DBD for this character. Not saying he's the only fun character or that survivor isn't fun, however, there is just something special and fun about this character gameplay. It requires patience and time to get better which has turned me from casual once in a blue moon player to more frequent player. Im sure other mains feel the same about their character, but Trickster mains are very passionate about this character... Its not to be stubborn or sulk, when they decide to leave. But what else can they do, if the character is not fun and there is nothing to look forward to with skill, but move on? And thats sad considering how loyal the Trickster community is. Many are waiting for you to announce something today before making a decision to leave DBD...Both high level and low level Tricksters.
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I checked 7.41 hotfix.
Acceleration(or speedy shooting) was a default power of Trickster. But now, BHVR gives us it as a perk.
Are you kidding me?
Just revert 7.33 Trickster.
BHVR Killed his talent and attraction.
Do you think it's done? If you don't revert him, any killer user won't trust you. Your patch list is already called "Death note" to a lot of users all over the world.
Revert or Refund.
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Are you serious?
Memento Blades Add-on: Increased the bonus throw speed from Memento Blades to 10% (was 5%).
And that's all? It's like bullying for Trickster mainers!
#RevertTrickster
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New Trickster is horrible
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Hi all,
For The Trickster, we are still looking into the slow throwing speed, on both base and Main Event.
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Thats not the only problem... Pls read the #RevertTrickster google doc carefully. Trust the Trickster community on this. We are talking hundreds and thousands of hours on this character, both advanced (Top Tricksters from around the world), less advanced Tricksters, console Tricksters, and Tricksters who also play a lot of survivors. Pls BHVR, dont ignore this community. It's practically unanimous in what we are asking for.
#RevertTrickster
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I appreciate it but it is not the only problem, the laceration is very high and falls very quickly, please maintain the 10 seconds but reduce the laceration meter
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Thanks all for leaving your feedback here (for the constructive comments at least), it's been gratefully received.
Designers are currently in the process of making some changes to the throwing speed which is what we've identified to be the biggest issue with Trickster - unfortunately this couldn't be done in time for todays bugfix so we're hopeful it will be in the next bugfix patch, but this date is not confirmed.
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We've been reading through all the feedback in this thread (huge THANK YOU again to everyone for sharing your thoughts !), as well as on social and other platforms, and passing it along to the rest of the team. We have noted everything that we've seen - including the laceration feedback.
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Are there any plans to maybe lower the number of knives required for main event, or raise the number of knives he can hold?
The knives have tiny hitboxes, and are very easy for survivors to dodge if they aren't in close range... and even the bots are very good at micro-dodging knives. Raising the throw rate will just make it even easier for Trickster to run out of knives, and he will be discouraged from trying to actually rapid fire if he isn't near a survivor, unless he's in main event, or unless he can go back to holding something like 60 knives.
I thought the goal was for Trickster to have a "rapid fire" playstyle, and I don't understand how that can happen if the throw rate gets fixed, but everything else stays the same. This isn't like Huntress, where the player is supposed to carefully aim each shot. This is supposed to be rapid fire, where it's understood that the accuracy rate might not be extremely high, because the player can't carefully aim each shot.
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Hello! as a growing Trickster main I must say that this update is more or less a nerf.
As much as I love the no recoil + 115 speed; to compensate this 'buff' the other aspects of him have been nerfed in way that makes him unfun to play as. It takes way too long to get a down; laceration meter goes down way too quick and 8 knives for a healthstate is almost useless to use. The fact he only throws three knives per second doesn't compensate anything, it just extends the chase and leaves him weaker than he was before. His main event 'buff' doesn't do him any good either. He doesn't throw that much faster and it doesn't take too long before it ends again. His updated addons are weak now; these updates have done him no good and nobody will feel excited playing him now anymore. It's easy to genrush a Trickster and even keeping pressure on wounded survivors and endgame games made him too weak. He's not frightening anymore, camping makes him miserable to do so.
He needs a proper rework; to make people more excited to play him. Keep the 115 speed with no recoil. Instead of it being 8 knives for a healthstate, revert it to 6 if you do not wish to make him throw 4 knives per second. If you insist on him keeping his current throw speed, revert it back 6 knives for a healthstate. Furthermore activate main event at 10/15 knives instead of 8 and make him throw it faster as it seems bugged right now. Laceration meter should be reverted back to 15 seconds before decay or 13 seconds, 10 is way too short for people who will just outrun him right on time or know how to find the proper loops where throwing knives is impossible. His bigger terror radius also doesn't do him much good when it feels like a punishment to play him right now. People can outrun him by already leaving beforehand.
Revert some addons too, I miss the one old version of the iri addons and the fizzy spin soda; to make them all about main event . . nobody really cares about using those.
I love the idea of Trickster receiving a buff and rework, I really do. PTB made him a little too strong, I agree. But the way he is now makes him extremely underwhelming and frustrating to play as it takes too much to get a proper down. Nobody wants to be an m1 killer as him. He's for long range; his knives should be the biggest thing about him; not swatting at people with a bat as it simply feels useless to keep throwing knives and reloading after 1 singular chase. Please look at him again! he needs it or people will pick him even lesser.
PS. BRING BACK THE GOLDEN MASK HEAD PIECE COSMETIC ! A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD LOVE IT.
Post edited by nitarayuuki on5 -
Thank you Dance. I know there is a lot the team has on their plate, but this is really tough to sit with without any word from the dev. team themselves. I hope they dont find all this passion insulting.
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The laceration decay timer makes the throw rate an issue. But if we want to keep the 10-second decay Trickster's throw rate per second needs to be half of the number of knives it takes for half state. If he's a 6 knife Trickster he should shoot 3 knives per second. If he's an 8 knife Trickster he should shoot at least 4 knives a second. What he is right now completely goes against what was mentioned in the original PTB patch notes which was "We wanted to focus on this rapid-fire ‘machine gun’ gameplay for this update ". Now he shoots slower than ever. Even the Release date Trickster shot faster.
Another thing is if he's 8 knife Trickster Main Event Throw rate should be a lot faster than the base throw rate otherwise survivors will continue to body block him and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
Making him have to equip add-ons to be somewhat playable is not a fix to an issue. Unless We got a better add-on to use until the next bug-fix patch comes.
Post edited by endzej_ on3 -
Not trying to sound rude, but if you have been reading around alot I'm sure you must have noticed how many people are asking to at least revert him so his mains can enjoy him again.
I'm not sure why the team would have to try all these bandaid methods (Like whatever that brown addon 'buff' is supossed to be) instead. Wouldn't reverting the changes not be easy while you try too figure out what to actually do with this killer?
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"We noticed the floor is flooding and have decided to put a towel on it"
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So can we just get him reworked again, devs? This version of Trickster is objectively worse to play both as a Killer and for the fun of playing.
And still doesn't solve the issue of Survivors being put into lose-lose situations against him.
Honestly, I'd just overhaul him to be an actual mobility Killer that people would like rather than a ranged Killer nobody actually likes.
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I tried using Memento Blade.
It's better than the default, but I thought it would be foolish to use one add-on to make it better.
And it's still too weak.
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You have to do def.
1. Give accleration again or Fix 4 knives per 1s
2. Laceration 10s->15s
After 7.4 version update, He can't make survivors hurt with his knives. The Blades are so slow and laceration disappear so fast. If I charge my knives, laceration starts to disappear right. He can't do anything. If you want people to play Trickster...The two things are essential. There are a lot of other problems(Useless add-ons, 16/44 knives, idiot main event...and so on). But The MOST URGENT things are The two things above.
It's his BASIC human right. If you update it, he's not still strong as other killers. If you don't agree my opinion, The way is one.
Just revert.
You know, we (Trickster users) don't want to play him as m1 killer. His kill rate was bottom. But we played, enjoyed, loved him. We are not crying for high kill rate. This patch took away his talent and attraction. Please know it and consider revert or patch.
Post edited by sadbill on6 -
There may be mistakes here because I'm using a translator. I'm a Trickster main for a long time. I immediately felt these changes. He is very slow even with his new speed 4.6. His knives have literally become useless, and now in order to somehow win, you need to hit with a bat. I hope they will return it to its previous state because now it is terrible...
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p100 trickster just adding my voice to the mix.
Revert back to 4 blades per second
Keep no recoil and loss of movement speed for quality of life changes
Keep the laceration time, it allows for surv counterplay
Make main event feel like a main event and not a side dish
That's all they need to do to make this killer feel good to play again
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Thank you for taking our feedback and for being transparent.
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i thought u are just kidding us, with this memento blades buff)
And i ve calculated how long with this addon takes to down a survivior.
5,3 sec now in base, 4,8 with that addon.
wow 0,5 sec faster, but it didnt count as normal way.
0,8 sec still long time to hit anybody.
If u fix the trickster, just make it sure that this addon get back to its old numbers of 5%.
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It's scary how Bhvr seems satisfied with just fixing Memento Blade.
I think Trickster should receive basic performance enhancements.
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I think it would be best to #RevertTrickster as he is too weak in his current state, and its too difficult to try an make him good for both higher mmr with skill expression and easy with little skill expression for low mmr.
(I was asked to make a full sentence by a mod.)
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I hope BHVR and all the crews learned something from the trickster rework and won't mess up other future changes, especially the twins rework. The twins don't need power rework, note that. All you need to do is tweak their mechanic, allow Victor to hook, summon Charlotte, have the ability to recall Victor at any time, and instant switch.
avoid ruining the main concept of the twins, what makes them stand out from others, what makes the twins twins
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Happy to hear the base & main event speed are being looked at ! I hope the throw speed ramp up gets implemented back somehow, I think the acceleration helped a lot in making Jiwoon feel fast.
Looking forward to the next time he gets fixed / buffed (hopefully soon)
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I would like to give feedback, but I don't see any Tricksters to begin with.
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Now.
Trickster is weaker Plague.
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Best feedback I can give is, all in all he is just okay in his current state and using his power feels more like you're hurting yourself instead of helping. The 3 blades per second feels really bad, even with no recoil, hitting blades on console is still a pain. Either 3.5 or 4 blades would probably feel a lot better. Please change this, even the people who main Trickster were unhappy with this change. It's like he was before, I still don't really want to play him because the throw rate is so slow, even in main event it feels slow.
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I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, because I know, large companies sometimes need more time to fix/revert things that have gone wrong because of policies, rules, workflow, etc.
But I beg, please don't mess this up. If unsure what to do, just revert to old Live version, remove recoil and change photocard. Maybe keep the 4.6m/s, just don't do one change per hotfix and hope that at some point the community will be quiet or gone as other companies do...
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i commented before but man i gotta say, i played him some more and yes the 4.6 is a MUST with him as is no recoil. that feels amazing from the old trickster and i main him for 2 years now. more speed, no recoil was all he needed tbh. he throws his knifes like he just woke up tho, and is still too groggy to do anything productive- like the entity only let him sleep for 3 hours or something. so old knife throw rate, no recoil and 4.6 would be the way to go.
please don't take him 4.6 it's the only thing that was really required with him to give him a chance in loops.
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don't worry, there's no plans to remove him being 4.6m/s!
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What is the plan to balance him, in that case? If he stays 4.6, it seems like his blade game will remain weaker than before. If that's true, I don't really understand why he's even a ranged killer.
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Some of his add-ons since the rework are just not good.
- Death Throes Compilation is essentially the same as the Diamond Cufflinks add-on.
- Both the Fizz Spin Soda and Ji-Woon's Autograph add-ons are damn near useless since you max out on combo levels any during Main Event. Also, the whole combo system is weird.
- The Waiting for You Watch is essentially an infinite Main Event so long as you keep hitting survivors. For a green add-on, it's absurdly strong.
- Melodious Murder is pretty weak as Trickster already has a fast reload since the locker reload buff some time ago. I think the speed needs to be increased significantly for us to consider using the add-on regularly.
The add-ons that I listed below need to have new effects. Here is a list of some suggestions for each one.
- Death Throes Compilation - For every blade hit in Main Event, replenish that amount after Main Event is over. This way it rewards good Trickster players for hitting their knives without flat out just reloading his whole ammo count.
- Fizz Spin Soda - Increase the activation window for Main Event by 50%
- Ji-Woon's Autograph - Increase the activation window for Main Event by 25%
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If this is the plan could we have 7.4.0 PTB Trickster but with the current version of Death Throes Compilation and Photo Card?
Since the Iri add-ons were what made him problematic. The rest of his power seemed fine. It required high accuracy to take advantage of Main Event. Otherwise, if Trickster wouldn't get the value he'd just stagger himself, lose distance and laceration by the time he catches up.
Trickster was always strong when the survivor is in the open without cover but these changes make him weaker in Higher Wall Loops. Him downing survivors fast who are mispositioned should not justify his nerfs. Fast Main Event doesn't mean much if you don't have LOS of the survivor.
It didn't seem like we properly tested Trickster since it was the same day as Chucky's PTB version and from what we've seen it was mostly Trickster's Iri Add-ons being showcased. Alongside Soda was put in with Death Throes when DTC didn't need Soda to maintain its value unless the Trickster player would miss 39 knives per 44 ammo.
If we were to bring back Soda's old effect it could have a downside which could decrease his Main Event Activation Window.
If he's going to have a 10-second decay which is a hard punishment, his power should make up for the drawback. He's the only killer who could lose his power's value passively without survivors having to use an item.
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BHVR I have a question, the announced changes that will come in the next bug fix, are they only changes for the killer basic kit or does it include addons?
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With the current game balance, even if you upgrade Huntress to 4.6, the game will not break.
It will be a little bit stronger.
Similarly, Trickster has no problem even if it becomes 4.6 with the conventional performance.
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